Before I try this...

icbm

icbm

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The other day I was mulling over how not to let Aylas take too much money off me during an order, and thought that maybe instead of using thier black phoenalic collars, using black epoxy in a heavy dose and sanding it down after drying. Has anyone else done this? If so is it better than trying to cut down and match a plastic collar you'd buy from Atlas?
 
icbm said:
The other day I was mulling over how not to let Aylas take too much money off me during an order, and thought that maybe instead of using thier black phoenalic collars, using black epoxy in a heavy dose and sanding it down after drying. Has anyone else done this? If so is it better than trying to cut down and match a plastic collar you'd buy from Atlas?
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It sounds like you are going to make your own rings out of black epoxy. Is that right? It also sounds like you are talking about the rings, at the joint. Remember that the MAIN reson for these rings, is to provide strength at the joint. What you are asking about, is not a good idea. Nor is trying to save pennies, when making a pool cue...JER
 
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Also, those black joint collars only cost $5-$6 at Atlas. If you're using West Epoxy, you are probably end up using more than $5-$6 worth. That stuff isn't cheap.
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
It sounds like you are going to make your own rings out of black epoxy. Is that right? It also spunds like you are talking about the rings, at the joint. Remember that the MAIN reson for these rings, is to provid strength at the joint. what you are asking about, is not a good idea. Nor is trying to save pennies, when maling a pool cue...JER
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....nuff said!;)
 
coopdeville said:
Is this why metal rings are/ were used in joint rings?
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No...metal rings are decorative. Phenolic collars are used for strength. Wiping a goob of epoxy on for a joint collar as the original poster mentioned, is just a plain horrid thought. If you are looking for ways to save money in cuemaking...you won't be in business very long. Most cuemakers spend endless dollars trying to better their cues. Getting into this business on a limited budget is a bad idea.;)
 
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TAP, TAP, TAP Mr. Varney

icbm said:
The other day I was mulling over how not to let Aylas take too much money off me...
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Not to mention trying to find ways NOT to give business to a fellow company in the very industry you are a part of.

Gene
 
I aggree with the others on this one for most of the reasons mentioned. There are many ways to be creative, and it's good to be thinking out of the box in search for different avenues to pursue, but this just isn't one of those things IMHO.;) The price of a phenolic collar is not much when it comes to providing a quality product for Your customers. If you have to, just charge them the extra 5 bucks to cover Your cost, as I'm sure they won't mind paying It for a better, quality, end product.:) Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I aggree with the others on this one for most of the reasons mentioned. There are many ways to be creative, and it's good to be thinking out of the box in search for different avenues to pursue, but this just isn't one of those things IMHO.;) The price of a phenolic collar is not much when it comes to providing a quality product for Your customers. If you have to, just charge them the extra 5 bucks to cover Your cost, as I'm sure they won't mind paying It for a better, quality, end product.:) Greg
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Isn't it more like .75 cents. Black Linen Phenolic in the joint size is only around 9.00 a foot.

Dick
 
pre

I was thinking more of a time when phenolic wasn't used in cue making.
Maybe something that wasn't as strong was used and had to be
reinforced.

"There once was a time..."

-cOOp
 
Thank all of you for your advice. To clear the air as to why I'd like to save money where I can, the short answer is I don't intend on selling cues that I make. I got into wood turning this summer and I love pool so cue making is a great way to learn spindle work while getting something out of it I'll use rather than truning bowls I will sell at a loss.

I respect the advice you folks gave me and shall follow it. I was just trying to think outside the box, although I really don't know enough to even recognize the box. Thanx again guys
 
rhncue said:
Isn't it more like .75 cents. Black Linen Phenolic in the joint size is only around 9.00 a foot.

Dick
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:D Yes I suppose it is. That shows how concerned I am about price Myself;) Not much when it comes to using a good material in a cue, and it didn't even cross My mind in My post. I was going By what price someone else mentioned. Perhaps that was for a ready made collar. I don't know, because I get My own from rod & tube as You probably would too I'm guessing. I don't even count phenoilic in when I price a cue. For the few I make a year & at the prices they sell for, that's the least of My cost worries. I'm more worried about saving costs on more equipment, the more expensive single cue materials, and space, so I can speed things up a little. The phenolic I just buy & use till it's gone, it's the other componets of each cue that I pay alittle more attention to the cost of I guess, but only to figure out How much I have into the cue as a base.:) Greg
 
Plus, that much epoxy could ''melt' or distort trying to buff and shine to a gloss look, and could distort when a hard hit is done, such as breaking
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
Plus, that much epoxy could ''melt' or distort trying to buff and shine to a gloss look, and could distort when a hard hit is done, such as breaking
Dave
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Epoxy, when put on to thickly, without a filler like fibreglass, often cracks.

Dick
 
coopdeville said:
I was thinking more of a time when phenolic wasn't used in cue making.
Maybe something that wasn't as strong was used and had to be
reinforced.

"There once was a time..."

-cOOp
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No, and, no.

Using phenolic predates metal rings in joint collars.

Metal rings at the joint were popularized by Balabushka, and were
strictly decorative. AFAIK he was the first - even tho Paradise
was the first to put metal rings in a cue, it was for decor, not strength. The wood is strong enough by itself.

The reinforce-age of the collar is done by the linen cloth, which
is exactly what George used. It just wasn't dyed black first, as
is done today.

FWIW - the black joint collars were started by Rambow and are also
decorative, to an extent. Herman built cues using hide glue, which he
knew was going to fail over time. He cross-pinned his joint screws with a finishing nail to stabilize them. The black joint collar was employed to hide the nail head - not because the wood needed strengthening.

Sneakys have been with us for 30+ years now - I've yet to see one
with an insert split out in the shaft.

Dale Pierce
 
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