benchrest rifle competition

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
Benchrest rifle competition is a sport that requires great knowledge, attention to detail, and usually many years of experience to be successful. It seems very simple, look through a very powerful scope, place the crosshairs on the center of the target and pull the trigger right? Not exactly. Wind has a non-linier effect on a bullet's flight, a nightmare in itself when the goal is to shoot groups under 0.375" at 200 yards so you must learn how to position and read windflags, an art that can take years to learn. Then there is mirage. Often the image in your scope is an illusion sitting out there rock steady or possibly jumping around two or three different places over an inch apart. Sometimes in a boil the target simply disappears and all you can do is wait for it to reappear with a shot clock ticking. Select the wrong target image and your whole event is basically over with, an entire weekend. You may win a division or a small group award but the goal of winning the overall is gone with one errant shot or the failure to shoot one shot.

Expenses are high, benchrest matches are held all over the country and worldwide with tiny purses. The equipment is expensive and you go through a lot of it too. Events typically run two days but may run for a week or more.

Benchrest is an older person's, almost exclusively an older man's, game. A major event with several hundred shooters may have a half-dozen or less shooters under 25. It will have roughly half of the shooters over 60 and the vast majority of them over 45. Youngsters have few people that they can relate to at a match and the slow learning process and lack of action is the antithesis of what youngsters are used to. The "youngsters" in benchrest are rarely as young as in their thirties or forties, more typically in their fifties or sixties. They have raised their families and now have discretionary time and income for a hobby. Their hobby is centuries old with little real change in all of that time. Although things are constantly evolving the goals never change.

Some would love to see big money and big participation in benchrest, many fear it is dying. We get a few new ranges to shoot at, we lose a few old ones. We have many unsanctioned matches and a handful of often feuding groups sanctioning matches, including several worldwide groups.

Benchrest will never be more than a niche sport, the endless pursuit of perfection that can never be achieved by a few dedicated souls.

Whut the hell is Hu doing posting this long rambling message about benchrest on the main forum?? I did it to ask a few questions:

After reading this message, how many of you have a burning desire to run out and shoot benchrest?

How different is benchrest from pool looking at it from the viewpoint of John Q. Public, Jane Q. Public, or a young person?

Benchrest is at least shot out in the fresh air and sunshine and has the appeal of firearms that most youngsters have some level of fascination with. Serious pool is often shot in a quiet murky smoke filled pool room with old men sitting around that look like they died years ago and somebody just forgot to bury them.

Youngsters are used to bright and noisy and the majority of them don't smoke and don't want to come home smelling like an old ash tray after spending time somewhere that didn't appeal to them a terrible bunch to begin with.

If we want pool to grow and be popular and appealing to young people we have to turn it into something that most of us don't want it to be anyway. While we can have some growth I think the dream of it being a big time sport is going to be forever a dream if pool remains what most of us love. We are Catch 22'd.

Hu
 
Benchrest rifle competition is a sport that requires great knowledge, attention to detail, and usually many years of experience to be successful. It seems very simple, look through a very powerful scope, place the crosshairs on the center of the target and pull the trigger right? Not exactly. Wind has a non-linier effect on a bullet's flight, a nightmare in itself when the goal is to shoot groups under 0.375" at 200 yards so you must learn how to position and read windflags, an art that can take years to learn. Then there is mirage. Often the image in your scope is an illusion sitting out there rock steady or possibly jumping around two or three different places over an inch apart. Sometimes in a boil the target simply disappears and all you can do is wait for it to reappear with a shot clock ticking. Select the wrong target image and your whole event is basically over with, an entire weekend. You may win a division or a small group award but the goal of winning the overall is gone with one errant shot or the failure to shoot one shot.

Expenses are high, benchrest matches are held all over the country and worldwide with tiny purses. The equipment is expensive and you go through a lot of it too. Events typically run two days but may run for a week or more.

Benchrest is an older person's, almost exclusively an older man's, game. A major event with several hundred shooters may have a half-dozen or less shooters under 25. It will have roughly half of the shooters over 60 and the vast majority of them over 45. Youngsters have few people that they can relate to at a match and the slow learning process and lack of action is the antithesis of what youngsters are used to. The "youngsters" in benchrest are rarely as young as in their thirties or forties, more typically in their fifties or sixties. They have raised their families and now have discretionary time and income for a hobby. Their hobby is centuries old with little real change in all of that time. Although things are constantly evolving the goals never change.

Some would love to see big money and big participation in benchrest, many fear it is dying. We get a few new ranges to shoot at, we lose a few old ones. We have many unsanctioned matches and a handful of often feuding groups sanctioning matches, including several worldwide groups.

Benchrest will never be more than a niche sport, the endless pursuit of perfection that can never be achieved by a few dedicated souls.

Whut the hell is Hu doing posting this long rambling message about benchrest on the main forum?? I did it to ask a few questions:

After reading this message, how many of you have a burning desire to run out and shoot benchrest?

How different is benchrest from pool looking at it from the viewpoint of John Q. Public, Jane Q. Public, or a young person?

Benchrest is at least shot out in the fresh air and sunshine and has the appeal of firearms that most youngsters have some level of fascination with. Serious pool is often shot in a quiet murky smoke filled pool room with old men sitting around that look like they died years ago and somebody just forgot to bury them.

Youngsters are used to bright and noisy and the majority of them don't smoke and don't want to come home smelling like an old ash tray after spending time somewhere that didn't appeal to them a terrible bunch to begin with.

If we want pool to grow and be popular and appealing to young people we have to turn it into something that most of us don't want it to be anyway. While we can have some growth I think the dream of it being a big time sport is going to be forever a dream if pool remains what most of us love. We are Catch 22'd.

Hu


I 1st thought..mais,,why dat hu done posted dat in da main forum..Dat blelongs in NPR...den i read ur last paragragh sha ! :grin:
 
Good analogy Hu and well written. Makes me wanna go shoot something! :)

However, you're a bit vague at the end of your post as you relate shooting to pool and the difficult task to gain more particpants.

What do you believe will attract the youngsters and grow the game?
 
Pool is more FUN IMHO as most Gun Ranges do not let you Drink a Cold Beer, and Shoot. I have competed in Marksmanship all my life, won ever Medal & Patch Avbailable in the NRA Jr. Markmanship Program. Have also observed this Bench Rest Rifle Game, to me it is boring, but some love it.

Both pool & Shooting sports are FUN, but IMHO I would rather be in an Air Conditioned Pool Room in PHX when it is 122 degrees, a than on the Rifle Range..
 
Good analogy Hu and well written. Makes me wanna go shoot something! :)

Tomorrow morning, I may ACTUALLY shoot something (Opening day, deer season, State of Texas).

Hu, I have participated and have been somewhat successful in benchrest shooting (Hi-Power Rifle) so I can appreciate your post.

Maniac
 
I have been tinkering with benchrest guns for a few years now. If there was some shooters here in colorado I would be much more serious about competing.
 
If we want pool to grow and be popular and appealing to young people we have to turn it into something that most of us don't want it to be anyway.

I agree. I've never wanted pool to be "popular". I play now at a room that fills up in the evenings and on weekends with date groups, and it's annoying. I enjoy the place most when it's just me and a few other hardcore players with no crowd and no music, just the click-thud of balls hitting the rails beside the pockets.

pj
chgo
 
[edited]
I did it to ask a few questions:

After reading this message, how many of you have a burning desire to run out and shoot benchrest?

How different is benchrest from pool looking at it from the viewpoint of John Q. Public, Jane Q. Public, or a young person?

Benchrest is at least shot out in the fresh air and sunshine and has the appeal of firearms that most youngsters have some level of fascination with. Serious pool is often shot in a quiet murky smoke filled pool room with old men sitting around that look like they died years ago and somebody just forgot to bury them.

Youngsters are used to bright and noisy and the majority of them don't smoke and don't want to come home smelling like an old ash tray after spending time somewhere that didn't appeal to them a terrible bunch to begin with.

If we want pool to grow and be popular and appealing to young people we have to turn it into something that most of us don't want it to be anyway. While we can have some growth I think the dream of it being a big time sport is going to be forever a dream if pool remains what most of us love. We are Catch 22'd.

Hu

I actually did want to run out and try benchrest shooting, reading your description. I like that it's something you can do through old age, that it's got a long history, that there's a small group of solitary souls who share the same interest and understanding, and that it's extremely difficult to learn and master. Just like pool. Except outside. : )

And I agree that many suggested and tried attempts to broaden pool's market are misguided and that they lose the "goodness" of pool...

The things I learned from pool and the poolroom have helped me in every day life, career, and have shaped my personality:
Be responsible for your every action (it ain't the cue or the table- you made the shot);
Breathe, concentrate, and trust yourself;
Relax into intensity;
Push your own boundaries despite comfort levels or fear of embarassment;
If you have a bad layout or you're hooked, your own knowledge, experience, and creativity will help you get out of trouble;
Always be true to your word as there will be times when your word is all you've got;
Put up or shut up;
Respect yourself and others;
Don't bet on another man's trick;
Don't ruin another man's action;
Don't snitch;
Everyone- no matter their background, education level, age, appearance, physical dependencies... Everyone can surprise you and can teach you something.

I love that pool is being taught to kids- not so they'll always get on exactly the right side of the object ball in a pattern, but so they'll learn to be tough, resourceful, confident, and well- mannered. It doesn't make good t.v., but rarely does "good t.v." mean "things we value."
 
make pool what it ain't

Good analogy Hu and well written. Makes me wanna go shoot something! :)

However, you're a bit vague at the end of your post as you relate shooting to pool and the difficult task to gain more particpants.

What do you believe will attract the youngsters and grow the game?



Matt,

That is the Catch 22. To make pool really popular we need to make pool what it isn't. We have to make it much more exciting and easier to learn. We have to change the environment it is usually played in. We need to make the pool hall the place to be.

One huge problem is the computer that we are both sitting in front of and cell phones. Young people interact less face to face than they ever did. When I ride around neighborhoods it is rare to see children outside simply playing together. Just getting people out to interact directly with each other is bucking the trend of life in the US.

Realistically, I think we need to quit daydreaming about an overnight explosion of popularity for pool or big money sponsors falling in love with pool overnight either. We can do things for slow growth. Making pool more available to young people with family center type halls that are family centers. Offering schools deals it is hard to pass on to get tables at the school or more likely students to nearby clean well lighted pool facilities without alcohol or smoking, most particularly during school and early hours. We can grow the sport ourselves as several are considering now. Most amateurs see the advantage of paying a small fee to support pro pool. Think if one dollar of each player's fee each night to play pool in the APA went to directly support pro events. A double breasted operation with both amateur and pro divisions would benefit both if managed correctly.

The thing is that we need to grow pool, not keep just hoping for an overnight boom. It will take years to see substantial results from the things I am suggesting. However, we would be reaping the rewards now had we started these things in the 90's. These things have been needed for as long as I have been in pool so we could actually have been reaping benefits in the seventies if not sooner. The lack of the will and ability to work towards long term goals is the biggest drawback for our sport. Hard for the individual to look ten years in the future when the bills are late and the refrigerator is empty but without some long term planning pool is going to always be what it is or less.

I do think we have to make some pretty substantial changes in pool soon just to maintain the status quo. I think becoming on a par with the sports paying players millions a year is fantasy. I do think with planning and work we could land somewhere in between with maybe the top hundred or several hundred players in the US making a middle class or better living from competition earnings.

I really don't have cut and dried step by step solutions. I have things I want to try but until tried nobody can say if they will work or not.

Hu
 
The "kids" seem to like speed pool, "we" find it an abomination. Hmmm did we miss something here?

On another tact I thought Hu had come up with a bench rest competition for pool players. The mix might be some serious fun -- for us older folks.
 
unfortunately

BB,

Unfortunately for benchrest and pool you are in the minority. When we are talking on AZB we are preaching to the choir. I don't doubt that many pool players would enjoy shooting benchrest and make good benchrest shooters.

We have a bit of a different mindset from the typical person, even the typical competitor. When in high school the coach of a top high school team in the state asked me to come play football for him after scouting me in PE. I turned him down. I played pool and simply wasn't interested in having to rely on teammates. Also to be honest I knew I wasn't a team player. Even in PE, I had selected what I would do and did it basically alone. On defense I attacked the other team's quarterback. On offense I protected my quarterback. That was all I did and all I wanted to do. I didn't ask anyone for these assignments, I simply took them for myself.

The same things that we like about pool and benchrest turn off the average person. Self reliance and the willingness to stand alone is a minority trait that a comparatively few people have. Humans are basically a herd or pack animal and pool and benchrest are basically solitary activities.

Hu


[edited]

I actually did want to run out and try benchrest shooting, reading your description. I like that it's something you can do through old age, that it's got a long history, that there's a small group of solitary souls who share the same interest and understanding, and that it's extremely difficult to learn and master. Just like pool. Except outside. : )

And I agree that many suggested and tried attempts to broaden pool's market are misguided and that they lose the "goodness" of pool...

The things I learned from pool and the poolroom have helped me in every day life, career, and have shaped my personality:
Be responsible for your every action (it ain't the cue or the table- you made the shot);
Breathe, concentrate, and trust yourself;
Relax into intensity;
Push your own boundaries despite comfort levels or fear of embarassment;
If you have a bad layout or you're hooked, your own knowledge, experience, and creativity will help you get out of trouble;
Always be true to your word as there will be times when your word is all you've got;
Put up or shut up;
Respect yourself and others;
Don't bet on another man's trick;
Don't ruin another man's action;
Don't snitch;
Everyone- no matter their background, education level, age, appearance, physical dependencies... Everyone can surprise you and can teach you something.

I love that pool is being taught to kids- not so they'll always get on exactly the right side of the object ball in a pattern, but so they'll learn to be tough, resourceful, confident, and well- mannered. It doesn't make good t.v., but rarely does "good t.v." mean "things we value."
 
me too

I agree. I've never wanted pool to be "popular". I play now at a room that fills up in the evenings and on weekends with date groups, and it's annoying. I enjoy the place most when it's just me and a few other hardcore players with no crowd and no music, just the click-thud of balls hitting the rails beside the pockets.

pj
chgo

Even when I was very young I liked a near empty pool hall. The quiet and the roll and thud of the pool balls. Unfortunately even now it is the evening crowds and leagues that pay the bills. Few pool halls would survive with just the hardcore daytime crowd.

Hu
 
Chris et al

I have been tinkering with benchrest guns for a few years now. If there was some shooters here in colorado I would be much more serious about competing.

Kinda funny to realize how many of us fool with precision rifles and shooting along with pool. They do indeed share a lot in common. Unfortunately that is what makes them both small niche sports.

Hu
 
misfits

You're right that pool is very solitary and not well given to the herd/ social crowd type. The latter is best served with teams, leagues, bars, and handicap systems that support more of a social atmosphere. Which also supports sales and business... This may be one reason so many games have different followings: when someone says "I'm an 8ball/ 9ball/ 10ball/ one pocket/ snooker/ 3cushion player," you get very different pictures and ideas of them.

I was worried I'd be called out on the t.v. thing- I should admit I don't watch tv and haven't for almost 20 years, so I may not have known exactly what I was talking about. Over the years I've seen entire friend- recommended series' of programs on dvd: Sopranos, 6ft under, Chappelle show, south park, dead like me; but I've still never seen an episode of Seinfeld or Friends.

Last month I turned on the t.v. and watched one channel for a little over two hours straight and felt very dirty for the rest of the week.

Pretty amazing that I'm essentially saying that I feel MUCH cleaner after a full 5-hour night in a poolroom than I do after watching 2 hrs' t.v.
 
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