Bending the Object Ball

Jal said:
I may have given the wrong impression, but I'm with you in believing an OB can be made to curve, if that's what you believe. Physics says it absolutely will curve when contacted above the horizontal equator and also acquires a sidespin component from friction. Obviously, because of the limits of induced spin, it isn't going to curve all that much, and it'll happen over a very short distance due to speed constraints when contacted at higher latitudes, but curve it will.

As far as making it curve with a non-airborne cueball, good luck.

Jim
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Not at all Jim. I know you believe the object ball can be made to bend.

I was just teasing because you agreed with most of us that the video didn't seem to prove that the object ball could be made to curve. As far as this video is concerned, I think Barton is safe from having to pay.

In my opinion, I think it is fair to say that any video could be suspect so John should just withdraw his offer, although I know he meant it in good faith.

There are people on both sides of the fence saying the object ball can and cannot be bent as illustrated.

If the only way the object ball can be made to bend is for the cue ball to go airborne, how do we know if the airborne cue ball, didn't create enough minor hop/bounce on the object ball (which it will) to barely skirt the impeding object ball?

Either way, JB Cases is off the hook in my opinion..:smile:
 
JoeyA said:
Well Bob, are we going to have to start another thread to get the information results from the 1992 study?
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Nope. No one came up with a way to curve the object ball. That's not saying it's impossible -- in fact as stated above, the ball can be made to curve very slightly -- it's just beyond practical shots at this point.
 
On this forum I am fairly confident in saying that I am probably in the top ten jumpers. I bet that I have jumped more balls doing exhibitions than anyone else on this forum. I cannot recall that I have ever seen the object ball masse' or curve at all after being hit with an airborne ball.

And I say this because me and others have spent dozens of hours through out the years playing with jump shots including landing the cueball on the object ball. We used to stand around at shows challenging each other to see who could do the craziest jump shots.

At this point I honestly do not think that there is any possible way to make an object ball curve around a blocking ball without some sort of special circumstance such as a warped table. There just isn't enough friction between the balls to cause the necessary amount of sidespin coupled with forward spin.

I would gladly pay off if someone can provide video that we all agree on.

I am glad Doug posted the video of Grady. Grady wasn't lying but he is mistaken about what was actually happening. And the followup shot where he hit the ball too hard to make it didn't make his case either. I think most of us know that from those ball positions the shot can be made with the cue ball on either side of the object ball.

By posting the video it shows that even professional players can be mistaken about the actual physics of the shots they are shooting.
 
JB Cases said:
On this forum I am fairly confident in saying that I am probably in the top ten jumpers. I bet that I have jumped more balls doing exhibitions than anyone else on this forum. I cannot recall that I have ever seen the object ball masse' or curve at all after being hit with an airborne ball.

And I say this because me and others have spent dozens of hours through out the years playing with jump shots including landing the cueball on the object ball. We used to stand around at shows challenging each other to see who could do the craziest jump shots.

At this point I honestly do not think that there is any possible way to make an object ball curve around a blocking ball without some sort of special circumstance such as a warped table. There just isn't enough friction between the balls to cause the necessary amount of sidespin coupled with forward spin.

I would gladly pay off if someone can provide video that we all agree on.

I am glad Doug posted the video of Grady. Grady wasn't lying but he is mistaken about what was actually happening. And the followup shot where he hit the ball too hard to make it didn't make his case either. I think most of us know that from those ball positions the shot can be made with the cue ball on either side of the object ball.

By posting the video it shows that even professional players can be mistaken about the actual physics of the shots they are shooting.
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The shot on the video that Grady made was not an easy shot and one that most players would have difficulty with.
 
JoeyA said:
...If the only way the object ball can be made to bend is for the cue ball to go airborne, how do we know if the airborne cue ball, didn't create enough minor hop/bounce on the object ball (which it will) to barely skirt the impeding object ball?
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It's a problem. That's why I suggested freezing the balls together in Bob's test in order to demonstrate a curve in isolation, so to speak (even though the 1-ball jumps). The 2-ball should prevent the 1-ball from taking off in anything other than a parallel path while the cueball is driving the 1-ball, save a fraction of a degree, to my thinking. (If there's any question, that can be tested by inducing maximum throw with a non-jumped cueball as a control.)

Jim
 
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Bending the object ball

JoeyA said:
To heck with playing. I'm going to let you shoot it for $50 or a $100 per shot til I am broke. (And yes, I will be the one setting the shot up). What city and pool room do I need to come to?

John does talk about bending the object balls and that is one of the reasons that prompted me to start this thread. I Know he is busy right now.
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I have to see it also. I have seen balls go around another ball when shot softly because of drift but the only time i ever saw an object ball truly bend around a ball was on bank shots.

The only way I would even think it was possible is if you had chalk on the balls right where they met and it slid the ball around the other.
I hope it is possible and I get to see it done , but until then I am a non believer.
I also agree with the statement about putting the balls up different , I have had a lot of shots shown to me over the years and when they finally do make it , it's a totally different position than the original one.
 
If a jumping object ball is really a concern, substitute a 5-inch section of 2-by-4 for the obstacle in my setup above. Use another (or the same) section to place the object ball the right distance from the cushion.
 
BRKNRUN said:
I am not saying it can or can't be done...but here is some info.

This thread reminded me of something that Don Rose told me years ago when faced with the long down the rail shot....similar to the diagramed shot but usually with the OB close to the rail and the CB away from the rail.

He told me to use a touch of draw to get the OB to track truer toward the pocket.

I just set this shot up. I used a striped ball for induced spin reference....If you just shoot the CB into the OB to make it, the OB will pick up a twist....I was able (using striaght draw) to make the ball track true (no twist)
If I can affect the twist to remove it...I suppose that means it may be possible through some kind of english to "add" additional twist.

My guess is that IF the shot is possible...it would need to be done on brand spankin new cloth so that the OB slides before the twist has any effect on the path....On worn cloth the effect would happen to quickly for the ball to get around the diagramed shot......IMO

I would spend more time trying to make this shot...but I already paid for my case.....:wink:
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With the draw you put topspin on the object ball which makes it start perfect rolling sooner which also means the object ball isn't sliding so that any unwanted off center English is minimized.
 
JoeyA said:

CueTable Help



This is a shot that a person called pro-player once claimed that Efren Reyes made. Let's assume that the one ball doesn't pass the two ball and you want to make the one ball in the lower left hand corner pocket. (We can assume that the other pockets are blocked as well).

Let's also assume that this is on old Simonis cloth not super-smooth new Simonis cloth.

Let's also assume that this is using clean balls.

Let's further assume that it is on a regular 9 foot Diamond pool table.


From the angle of where the cue ball is, can the one ball be BENT (curved) around the two ball and pocketed in the lower left corner pocket? If so, how?

Thanks,
JoeyA
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I have actually pulled this shot off recently. My jaw dropped the first time I saw it work. I was drinking and playing for fun. I was thinking what the hell this ball is in my way but, maybe if I put some english on the cue ball and try for the corner anyways it will spin or bend the object ball. It definitely works! I just don't know if I could pull it off every time. Going to be practicing this shot for sure!
 
Serendipity

I tried out Bob Jewett's shot where the impeding object ball is two balls from the side rail and the main object ball is three balls off the side rail.

Last night a friend of mine and I invested 15 minutes of our life in this shot and were unable to create any bend in the object ball, although we were able to hit the impeding object ball many times, trying to do so.

My friend happened to be one of those "special" students of the game who practiced trick shots all of this life and enjoyed the physics and geometry of the game. I told him I wasn't much on trick shots because the trick shots were just that, "trick shots"; you know, where you position balls just so and make one or more balls in a variety of pockets. It's entertaining for a moment but I prefer the real-time skill needed in traditional pool games. My friend said, "Well, I know you like one pocket, right?" duhhhhh. We spent the next hour where he helped me to understand the basics of some of the trick shots and how they would help me in a one pocket game or other pool games. He was spot on. I don't know how long I will have to wait for some of these opportunitites to come up in one pocket, but I'm sure going to be looking. :smile:

Talk about serendipity? I'm speechless.
 
JoeyA said:
I tried out Bob Jewett's shot where the impeding object ball is two balls from the side rail and the main object ball is three balls off the side rail.

Last night a friend of mine and I invested 15 minutes of our life in this shot and were unable to create any bend in the object ball, although we were able to hit the impeding object ball many times, trying to do so.
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It's good to know that the math/physics predictions concerning OB turn/swerve hold true at the table. That has been my experience as well.

Thanks,
Dave
 
JoeyA said:
Last night a friend of mine and I invested 15 minutes of our life in this shot and were unable to create any bend in the object ball
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Joey,

FYI, it's a lot easier if you use a weighted ball and the amazing cue twist and stroke swoop technique. :grin:

You've probably seen the demonstration before, but for those who haven't, here it is:

It takes a little practice, but the results can be quite dramatic.

Regards,
Dave
 
PocketPoint said:
So let's hear from those that say it's possible
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No need to hear from those who say it's possible (although that's fine too).

For proof, each person should just go to the table and set up the shots like Bob Jewett has illustrated and without hopping the object ball over the impeding object ball, let us know how many sucessful attempts you make in bending the object ball. :yes:
 
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