It has been my experience that players with high Fargo numbers can flat out play on both the 9 ft & 7 ft tables. Your example is purely hypothetical & truth be told probably doesn't really exist in the real world.
Bergman will play WNT events in 2026
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I don't doubt or disagree with that.
All I'm saying is a 600 7ft player is not the same speed as a 600 9ft player.
But like you said, since this probably doesn't exist in the real world, it's hard to argue.
No, I'm asking YOU. You don't need Mike to fight your Fargo battles.
The player with no 10’ experience would be at a slight disadvantage. But only for a few sessions until he got used to it.
Same thing with two 600’s (from 9 ball tournaments), one has never played one hole in his life, the other does all the time. The one hole player will have an edge until the 9 ball player learns the moves. In this case it would take longer than the simple table size change.
Thank you. What would you consider a few sessions? Like 5 sets of race to 5?
Wouldn't the 10ft table player come out on top a majority of the sets in the long run?
He has the info, I CLEARLY don't have access to it. How about YOU do a simple search on here. Im not here to babysit you
I think just changing table sizes would require a few hours of serious play to be up to speed. The shotmaking ability won’t change. More the decision making of when to be aggressive vs conservative.
I’ll give an example where it didn’t matter. When the DCC fatboy event first changed to the Bigfoot event (9’ to 10’), Corey was entered. I thought he’d have an edge over the field because he learned from Jimmy Caras, who was a 10’ champion. I thought some of those patterns from Jimmy would help him. Nope.
Another:
Bigfoot Tunica Earl vs Landon Shuffet. Earl had had a lot of 10’ experience in his life. Landon probably zero. Landon beat him.
Another:. I used to gamble a guy 25 years ago in 9 ball who was the 7 better than me. He only played 9 ball. I played one hole and backpocket 9 ball as much as regular 9 ball. I told him I’d play him an even set of backpocket to 7 for $200. I won the first couple of games. Then he tortured me. It took him less than a set to learn enough moves to beat me.
Another example is 3C. A few rooms left might still have a 3C table. You get a 9 baller on one that can really play 9 ball, he will be beating the weaker stroke players at 3C within a couple hours, probably sooner.
It’s just balls and a stick, as Eddie said to Burt.
Don’t forget, everyone is intermixed now. Even if the player in question rarely leaves his home room, his opponents, where he earned his rating by playing, probably have experience on all types of equipment, disciplines, and cities.
Smutzc
Well-known member
Bergman would be the best wildcard America could pick. As for Tyler, not this year but the previous year, he might have been the best performer for USA. I always say Tyler has all the skills and knowledge to be a top 10 player, he just needs that breakthrough win to get his mind right and become as good as I know he can be !
That's the key, all players on all tables are compared against eachother and all it takes is a few sets from somebody on an island to adjust every other player on the island accordingly to everybody else in the world and the longer/more sets they play, the more accurate everybody on the islands fargo would adjust to the rest of the world regardless of table size
I think he's too robotic - way beyond the euro players. Reminds me of Jennifer B with the ridiculous PSR and slow play. Like they think it makes them look smarter or some other nonsense. Mind you, I don't care how long Jennifer B takes
True. But I'm wondering...do you think we have some secret ulterior reason to mislead you on this issue?
Not at all. I just haven't done my research on how it works when comparing different size tables/pockets.
I wasn't trying to attack Fargorate in any way. If it came off that way, my bad.
Is it true that a 600FR who only plays on a 9ft is the same exact speed as a 600 who only plays on 7ft? If they were to match up on a 9ft table. Equal rating and robustness.
I was assuming the 9ft player has the advantage and would win the majority of sets in the long run.
Only reason I'm asking is I've seen a few 500-600 who 90% of the time play on barboxes, and then when I watch them play on a 9footer, they are shooting below the speed they are currently ranked.
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He's trying to be a pool playing robot....and failing.
Kris, in a nutshell it is easier for a big table player to go down to a bar table then vice versa. Much easier!
Jerry Breisath was actually a very good player, but he found he was better suited to teach and coach other players, and became a renowned pool instructor. Mark Wilson was a very good player, competing on a high level. That he didn't win major tournaments (he did win many regional events), is no knock on him. He was up against the elite players of his generation from Sigel, Varner, Miz on down.
noone is saying that though. it's a commercial product and if much of the market is on tiny tables the reason for their inclusion is rational.
my guess is that if 5ft tables with 6" pockets were common enough, the island theory would still be kind of true. as iusedtoberich writes it's sticks and balls. but at some point we would be discussing a different game than the one filler and the big boys are playing
I agree with you regarding Jerry. You’re also correct in that Mark was a very good player, as one doesn’t manage to be able to even play on the pro tour without elite skills. The same goes for Tyler, he has put in the time and has the skills, I believe he’s in possession of the top 3-4 10 ball breaks amongst all current pro players.
My initial post wasn’t an attempt to knock Mark or Tyler as both have skills of elite players. As I noted though, skills without heart, grit, whatever word anyone wants to assign to describe inner toughness in competition that allows players to bring their honed, elite skills to task in the heat of battle, when it matters is the difference between those that become champions and the “also rans”.
I’m of the belief that when you look at say, the top 20 players in the pro ranks, that the difference in their “skill levels”, is infinitesimal. Yet almost as a rule, there are perhaps a third of those 20 that are are always in the top spot in finishes, another third that always end up in the middle, and the last third that are near the end of that 20 regarding their competition finishes. So given the minimal difference in physical skills, it becomes clear that the difference is what they possess inside, grit, heart. Some have it in spades, some do not. It’s just one of those variables that is difficult to develop if they don’t inherently have it “in them”.
There is nothing stopping us from using all the data, 7-foot, 9-foot, and simply creating separate ratings like people think we should do. Flattering expectations can help adoption in the short term. Producing the most reliable ratings is what sustains trust and value in the long term.
You have a mental image of a "9-foot player" of a certain skill, say 600, who can go to a 7-foot table and adapt pretty easily.
And of a somehow similar "7-foot player" who struggles on a 9-foot table because he has less transferrable skills.
But those two players don't have the same rating.
You need to find better 7-foot players to do this right. Keep getting better and better players until you find some who after a little bit keep up with that 9-foot 600 when they go to a 9-foot table. Then we call them 600s and everybody else on the 7-foot table falls in line compared to them.
In other words, 600 is the same skill on both tables because we make it so. This is the same kind of balancing that connects the city to the countryside.
I think what you are missing is that your “only bar box” player had played against other players who play on both bar boxes and 9 footers, so your only bar box player’s Fargo accounts for this difference already.
Ive never played a Fargo event outside of Kansas City. But some people I played have, so my Fargo accounts for that as well (I’m terrible regardless of the city). Mike has a video on this city example.