best all round player ever

labatt ice rod said:
now think of this some are asking about the past 50 years so here is a name that goes back a little further what about the youngest world champ ever ralph greenleaf
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He may have been the youngest up to then, but not any more.
 
best player

Luther Lasiter or Harold Worst. Dead heat. And do not forget Ed Kelly and Richie Florence. Just my opinion. Hardly ever wrong .Rich aka The Skunk.
 
Look at the games as well as the Players

Rotation - For years, Efren
One Pocket - Efren - By Scott Frost's own evaluation-2 balls better than
anyone.
Eight Ball - Twice world champion and won the big Trudeaux tournament.
Nine Ball - Many players qualify but Efren in mid 50's still ranked very high.
Ten Ball - Many good players but Eren still high in rankings.
Bank Pool - Placed very high over the years at Derby City.
 
labatt ice rod said:
now think of this some are asking about the past 50 years so here is a name that goes back a little further what about the youngest world champ ever ralph greenleaf
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I thought this was about all-round...
I think of Greenleaf...I think of straight pool.

But then I looked at your avatar and realized why you thought of him:D

Willie Mosconi was asked about his rivalry with Greenleaf..

..He said "I will only say this..every time I beat him they said it was
because he was drinking...
...but every time he beat me...he was drinking too
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to admit it but Mike Sigel was probably the best All Around player I've seen in my lifetime. Great at Straight Pool, a champion at 9-Ball, one of the best in One Pocket and played jam up Banks as well...

Honorable mention goes to Nick Varner (strong at all games, but a slight underdog to Sigel in most)...
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I put Varner 3rd overall behind Efren and Worst (this is only slightly influenced by the fact that Nick is my favorite player ever), but it's very hard to keep Sigel out.

I would give Sigel the edge over Varner at straight pool, but Jay don't you think Varner's best 9-ball game was the equal of Sigel's? I know Sigel was more consistent and won more tournaments, but when Varner was at his peak he won like half the pro tournaments he entered.

Also, I would give Varner the slight edge over Sigel in banks (he's from Kentucky, for christ's sake!) and one-pocket.
 
PoolBum said:
I put Varner 3rd overall behind Efren and Worst (this is only slightly influenced by the fact that Nick is my favorite player ever), but it's very hard to keep Sigel out.

I would give Sigel the edge over Varner at straight pool, but Jay don't you think Varner's best 9-ball game was the equal of Sigel's? I know Sigel was more consistent and won more tournaments, but when Varner was at his peak he won like half the pro tournaments he entered.

Also, I would give Varner the slight edge over Sigel in banks (he's from Kentucky, for christ's sake!) and one-pocket.
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Sigel also played excellent Banks. I'm not sure why, since he was from Rochester, not exactly Bank Pool country, but he did. Probably just as good as Nicky. They were playing at the same time and Sigel had a superior tournament record overall. Nick had one great year where he won a zillion tournaments (maybe 1988 or '89?). Sigel was a champion every year and along with Earl and Buddy, one of the dominant players. The fields were smaller back then but still full of great players. Nick was in that second echelon of top players that included Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, Efren, Parica and Kim Davenport.

Sigel was not necessarily the most popular player back then by his peers, but he was definitely the one guy they most feared playing. Mike knew how to win, and win he did, over and over. He has the remarkable record of winning eleven final matches in a row. That is, eleven straight times when he reached the finals he won! And he was playing guys like Earl, Buddy, Efren and Varner in those matches. By the way, he and Nick were best friends and often traveled together to foreign countries for big events. In their heyday, they were the two best out there, with only Efren and Parica in their way. The Europeans and the Taiwanese hadn't arrived yet.
 
The best player is someone who enters a game they have not played allot or never played and figures out how to beat everyone at their own game, in essence they change the game itself. There are not many that can and have done that, but in reading these different posts, sounds like Worst and Efren stand alone with this attribute. Another that has not been mentioned with these two is Eddie Taylor, a man who plays the game game his way. Varner tho had the determination and calmness of the best ever and was great in the ''heat of the moment'', don't know if I've ever seem him be affected by pressure other than playing better. Him going to the Philippines and beating Efren over three days was quite a feat. Be like fighting Manny P. in house, and he's on payper view today, go Manny!!!
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to admit it but Mike Sigel was probably the best All Around player I've seen in my lifetime. Great at Straight Pool, a champion at 9-Ball, one of the best in One Pocket and played jam up Banks as well. The only players in the modern era who are in his league would be Efren naturally (an underdog to Mike at Straight Pool and Banks, a draw at 9-Ball and only a favorite at One Pocket), Buddy Hall who was Sigels' equal at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket but an underdog at Straight Pool and finally Steve Mizerak who was also Mike's equal at 9-Ball and One Pocket and a favorite at Straight Pool (the only one who was). Steve was not the Bank Pool player Mike was though.

Honorable mention goes to Nick Varner (strong at all games, but a slight underdog to Sigel in most), Allen Hopkins another great all around player and Jim Rempe who played all games top speed. The latter two didn't bank close to Nick and Mike's speed though. Jimmy Fusco was another great all around player, who did bank lights out.

In an earlier era, It had to be Ed Kelly who had no weaknesses at any game, Luther Lassiter who excelled at 9-Ball and Straight Pool (his One Pocket game was only average), and of course Harold Worst who had no perceptible weaknesses on any table, including Billiards. If you take his skill at Billiards into account, he may have been the best of all. There was no game he couldn't master if he practiced it awhile. He wanted badly to beat Ronnie at One Pocket and was learning that game quickly when he passed away. Worst was also a terrific snooker player as well, and perhaps the one American who could have gone to England and done something. He was that good!

It comes down to Worst in his era and Sigel in his, with Ed Kelly a very close third! If they had to play head to head at all games in their prime, I would bet all my money on Harold Worst. He only knew one thing and that was how to win. I sincerely believe he could raise his game to whatever level necessary to win. Harold was the "Efren" of his day! Mentally he was tougher than all the rest. I never saw him have a weak moment. I can't think of anyone else quite like him and that's why we still talk about him with reverence even today.
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Thanks for the tales Jay. Since my Dad used to hang out with Harold when they were kids, and I crossed paths on the table with Harold Jr.,
Worst is always my favorite. Unfortunately the only time I was anywhere
near him was at visitation with my Dad. I did hear some good stories from
his sparring partner in G.R., George Ellis who mentored Bobby Hunter... who mentored Smitty.... and the cycle continues...

td
 
My vote is Worst & Efren, not necessarily in that order. But if you would allow him to crawl up on the table to shoot shots he can't reach ;), Boston Shorty would get an honorble mention. I don't think he belongs with the all time greats in each catagory, but he played everything pretty dang well, including 3-cushion. Thought it was worth a mention.

Dave
 
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