Best up and coming cue makers to invest your money into?

[Ched]

A bit off topic, but still relevant. If you're young and buy a cue you really like, (both looks and hit), and you hold on to it for years to come, it will be a good investment. I bought an early Huebler in the very early 80s - and the memories that stick brings back are priceless. I guess I'm lucky because it's actually worth more than I paid for it - but there are 2 values to consider. Monetary and sentimental. Never over-estimate the first, or underestimate the second. IJS

 

[one stroke]

Listen, I've been burned before on investments, once as a kid, collecting stamps, and twice as an adult in market crashes. No investment is ever truely safe. I'd say the cue collecting is an especially unsafe investment, as the recruitment to pool is so low and there is so much competition for peoples money these days.

Nostalgic baby boomers with tons of expendable income drove the cue prices up to an artificially high point at one point in time and as they slowly die off, lose their expendable income because of US health care policies, or simply lose interest because of old age, the cue prices will continue their downward trend until a bottom/ground floor is reached. Naturally other countries don't have policies that lead to financial ruin when you get old and sick and have more age groups involved in buying/selling cues as well as playing pool seriously, so these countries will probably have a more gradual decline in their pricing. Asia will of course prop up the cuemarket to a certain extent, as they have for a decade or more now. Old people buy cues in the US, but of course in Asia the market is more healthy and have some younger people involved. The Asian market favours expensive makers (expensive for the sake of being expensive) so the pricing will be very top heavy with little midrange to speak of.

Ordering from aging cuemakers is a risky policy, they might die before your cue is completed. Oh, please don't give me any of this sanctimonious nonsense! Every one of the collectors are circling around waiting for this or that maker to die or retire, like vultures! Of course we all pretend that nobody thinks like that, but that's the reality of the situation. If the guy dies, his stuff will be worth more. It's the nature of the collecting business.

There will always be an interest in the absolute greatest makers, but ivory policies etc makes trading them inconvenient and I think many such bans and restrictions will come in the future as well, especially on tropical hardwoods. Cues for playing will probably be made of carbon, anyways.

Invest in something with better odds of giving a return, would be my advice, but of course I have terrible luck in investments, so you better do the opposite.. If you want a fancy cue from a famous maker, then go right ahead, but make sure you use money you don't necessarily need to get back.

Yes cues are not the best choice for investment, but there are many that will atleast hold its value and some willl rise ,, the ivory ban or a possible wood ban will not hurt the value it will raise it as there is always a market for Art it's tricky there is plenty of cues made by

Black Boar that went for big numbers when he cut back USA sales that people are sitting on cause they can't get what they paid for ,, yet if you bought one before that that cue could be worth double or much better but I've seen a couple of his cues made recently being sold for less than they paid to have the made , that's a big boy market

Iv bought 5 cues solely as a cheap investment, a BB AS-5 , 2 Dan Dicolas , 1 Eruo West and a plain Jain SW all of them I will make money on cause I bought them at the right price ,,that's the whole key see a deal and snatch it

I don't see carbon cues catching on fire , I've seen several Revo's for sale for less than they paid and they simply have nothing to offer anything other thier play ability the secondary shaft market will be making shafts for every cue very soon so many will simply buy the shafts to fit the cues they have like I have for all mine ,, I have a laminated shaft along with original shaft for all mine

Cue sales rise with the economy I'm thinking that just might happen in the next couple yrs like it did in the Reagan and early Bush yrs ,,

But who knows only time will tell


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[Slim Limpy]

.............

 

[Maniac]

Jake and Larry Vigus are can't miss
trouble is finding one or talking them into
making one for you

I'm glad I have three of Larry's cues. Best playing cues I own. Excellent attention paid to detail in his work. Would I sell them? Not no.....but HELL no.

Maniac (not a collector at all)

 

[jalapus logan]

Respectfully, buying pool cues and investing shouldn't be included in the same thought.

Open a Vanguard account and get into broad market index funds. Your investments will mature long term much more than pool cues.

The s absolutely! I'm a boglehead. If you don't know what that is, Google it. You will thank yourself years down the road.

 

[one stroke]

I'm glad I have three of Larry's cues. Best playing cues I own. Excellent attention paid to detail in his work. Would I sell them? Not no.....but HELL no.

Maniac (not a collector at all)

I actually just became familiar with his cue I loved on of his bridged veneer point cues but didn't like the wood choices , but I'm keeping my eye open I like his work


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[Lesh]

Mike Smith of Rack Runner Cues. Good man making good cues. Has a great eye for tradition and expertise... and it's only going to get better. Paid $500 for my wrap less 4 - point player with 2 shafts. I know a bit about what a good cue is. He makes lots of them. If I had to pick one that will mature to elite status and is currently available for realisticmoney, Mike is my pick.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[pwd72s]

Respectfully, buying pool cues and investing shouldn't be included in the same thought.

Open a Vanguard account and get into broad market index funds. Your investments will mature long term much more than pool cues.

Bingo! Vanguard total Market Index if you're young.

 

[louieatienza]

I'd agree with most everyone that collecting cues may not be the ticket to a fulfilling retirement, though there are successful dealers out there.

That said, from my limited experience, the ones that seem to rise the most in value, percentage wise, are the ones that weren't made to be collectables. The Scruggs sneaky Pete's and plain Jane's that were meant to be played, but maybe put away after a short while, for example (and I wish I still had them!) The player's cues from the big names today are up there now, but they may be even higher 15-20 years down the road when guys our age reconnect with the stuff we used to have, or couldn't afford now but could in retirement. And by then the cuemakers of today may be in the zenith of their careers, putting out less and less stuff, and what they do put out will be mostly high-end cues and not player cues. While there will be more of their player cues proportionally, the "pool" of buyers will be a lot larger because they're more affordable.

I'm not saying this as investment advice, but if you want to get a great playing cue from a great builder, I think they're relatively easier to move down the road and get back at least what you got into it, and possibly more...

 

[louieatienza]

OK, louieatienza, here’s my reasoning for my first post:

Originally Posted by Delaware Lar
If your looking for an investment cue buy a Black Boar. When Tony dies his cues are going to skyrocket.

Response by CJH:
If I were to be counting on someones death for my eventual profit it would clearly indicate that I am way off the rails and greed for profit has rendered me a despicable example of a man. Even if you were to think such a thing, what would compel you to post it? You don't think Tony or Donnie log on to AZ? Good grief!

The sentiment above by Delaware Lar is far from unique on AzBilliards. Without trying to track down other versions of this same thought, I’d have to say I’ve read it at least half a dozen or a dozen times in thread concerning the value of cues and which cues to collect. I’ve never seen anyone react negatively to it until now, however.

My first reaction was exactly the same as Ched’s:
Probably wasn't intended to come across that way.

Kid Dynomite expressed basically same response when defending the post.

No big deal.

CJH then posted:
“What else could his meaning have been? I see what was written.”

That is what caused me to form my reply. Remember that the notice by Kid Dynomite of his friend’s death doesn’t really figure into my response at all. I hadn’t read that post before completing my original posting. The fact that he notified us of his death was just simply odd timing for my reply.

I probably would have been a bit more formal in my response had I read about Kid Dynomite's loss of his friend, but the same response would have been given.

CJH implied that Delaware Lar’s original posting was somehow morally improper or morally lacking. He then asked, “What else could his meaning have been?”

I gave him two separate alternate meanings to show him that that the intent of Delaware Lar’s posting wasn’t what he interpreted it to be.

One was the moral response: Because you talk about someone’s death doesn’t mean you wish them dead. The other example simply expresses the fact that sometimes even what you wish for isn’t really what you want to happen. Making a wish happen is something completely different.

The other was a response based on the economics of collecting: because someone dies and you indeed, in fact, profit from their death doesn’t mean you wished them dead. Most of us hope the things we own increase in value over time, but most of us don’t go around hoping the people who made them die an untimely death just so we can take advantage of that.

End meaning: There’s nothing wrong with Delaware Lar’s original post and CJH has misinterpreted it. He implied low moral meaning where none existed.

In order to answer CJH’s question of “What else could his meaning have been?”, there was no way I could answer that without discussing death. The question involved death.

The only thing I would challenge in your response, louieatienza (could you find a harder name to memorize, please?), is "I was raised where such talk amongst strangers would be considered uncouth."


We’re strangers here by distance only here. Forums are designed to promote interaction, and if possible, cordial discussions and argumentation. So the fact that I would bum somebody out by responding in an appropriate manner doesn’t bother me at all.

Besides, the most viewed threads on AzBilliards are the train wrecks where you just can’t turn your head away from!

CJH has every right to respond at length and justify his distaste for Delaware Lar’s original post if he so chooses. I don’t see the moral dilemma that he apparently sees in it.

Warning!!! Danger, Will Robinson!!! If you can’t handle a reasonable discussion concerning death and cuemakers, this is not the thread for you! You may want to exit this thread and proceed on to the latest Justin386 thread where all the action is!

Well, it's my name. Just without a space. Back in the early days in some forums anonymity was not allowed, and we had to use our real names. So I stuck with it. I understand in these times it may not be a desirable thing to do, but I do it because I won't post in a vail of secrecy. You can call me Louie!:thumbup:

Back to your point - it's so easy to "burn" some one or "burn" them back when there are no repercussions, you can't see their face or read their hand gestures. It's likely we'd get along just fine over a few rounds of beer. It's just that what we type may not express the eloquence of our tongue (or lack thereof) or the visual cues that clue us in to how one truly feels. I also find that sometimes on forums I had issues with someone, it was because they were from a different English-speaking country (or even a different part of the US), and their use of the language is a little different than here in the Northeast. I fail miserably, but I try to not presume the intentions of others on forums (except for maybe that Justin dude.) I also started typing my post, went away to take care of laundry, and submitted it, after which I read CJH's post. And I'd have probably gone back to re-review the thread (of which I've mostly forgotten) before posting.

So hope you forgive my comments as my view of the context of Delaware Larry's was misinformed. Still it's a bit macabre to me.

 

[Baby Huey]

I talked with Tim Padgett the other day and he may start making cues again. I hope he does as his cues are "Top Shelf."