I play on home table every night usually nine ball or just throwing balls onthe table and running them out. I also play in a APA league where we play 8ball and 9ball on same night. I can not seem to win in 8 ball to save my life. The last two weeks I have lost in 8ball to the same person I destroyed in 9ball so I know i need to practice more 8ball but find it hard to do by myself anyone got any tips for 8ball practice?
Best way to practice 8 ball
- Thread starter sigep1967
- Start date
Hmm 8 ball can be trickier to run out every time because clusters and problem balls are a lot more potential in this game, so a lot of the time you gotta play safe or cause problems for your opponent's ball. Choose the best ball set if the table is open and have a plan to run out from the start. Another tricky thing in 8 ball is that you need to avoid traffic if there are too many balls around and that can be the case in many situations. Let's say all your balls are on the table and the 8, the opponent's balls are gone but he missed the 8 or has given you a foul. This is a lot better for running out, as there will be no other balls in the way(Your opponent's balls).
Other than that you use the same skill as in 9 ball, just a different game... Maybe it's just psychological =P...
Other than that you use the same skill as in 9 ball, just a different game... Maybe it's just psychological =P...
Boy do I know this feeling!!! I've been mixing in 8,9, and now 14.1 into my practice regime. (When I get to practice anymore...) but I have seen a dramatic improvement by throwing 14.1 in the mix. Your ball pocketing, break outs, and all around game improve very nicely!
Give it a try, 14.1 is actually a blast!!!
best,
Justin
I think it is more in my head I will usually run down to the last ball or so then just miss lol. I think I see it as an easy game and just dont concentrate as much like I do in nine ball. In both of these matches the last two weeks when I say destroy in 9ball I mean it they barely got to the table I think in the two matches neither guy made more than 15 balls while I ran out 45 I am SL6 so definately not a great player anymore but can move it around a bit. I just go brain dead in 8 ball for some reason.
If we're talking barbox here, the following are generally true:
- 8-ball is easier at the start (more choices), and gets progressively harder as you take balls (your category) off the table. Unless you play your patterns PERFECTLY, the most difficult shots on the table are when you have one ball left, or are on the 8-ball. This is especially true if all or most of your opponent's ball category is still on the table.
- 9-ball is harder at the start (you have to shoot at the lowest-numbered ball on the table, and with all balls on the table, there are many potential blockers), but gets progressively easier as you take balls off the table.
Most failed runouts or strategy-play in 8-ball (and thus losses) stem from one not paying attention to the differences between it and short-rack rotation games like 9-ball. They are VERY DIFFERENT games. Even your average bar-banger will whoop an accomplished short-rack rotation player's petutie if the short-rack rotation player doesn't acknowledge the difference in game play.
On a barbox especially, when you have all or most of the 15-ball rack on the table, accurate position play is crucial. Whereas you can probably get away with zinging your cue ball around the table in short-rack rotation, do this in 8-ball, and it's a recipe for a loss.
In fact, I'd dare say that 8-ball on a barbox is trickier than 8-ball on a 9-footer, for the "congestion" reason.
Ask yourself these questions:
- When you lose your 8-ball matches, what preceded that loss, other than your opponent running out on you? What did you do?
- Did you have a specific pattern in mind when running your ball category, and try to accurately stick to it? Did you accurately envision the ENTIRE PATTERN, and not just one or two balls ahead?
- Or, did you just bring out your heavy artillery, and fire in shots ("fire in the hole!!"), going from ball to ball (only seeing one ball ahead), perhaps as the way you play in 9-ball? (This is a recipe for disaster.)
- If, in the middle of a safety battle, did you let your pride for your shot-making ability get in the way, and attempt low-percentage shots, rather than put your OPPONENT in the position of a low-percentage shot?
There are many such questions like these, but I think you get the general idea.
Suggestions:
- Other than the obvious tips inferred by the questions above, try playing 8-ball with more experienced players as part of your practice. Don't just throw balls up on the table and "click your 9-ball run 'em out in rotation" switch.
- Play some 14.1 -- if you can. Straight pool will sharpen your 8-ball patterns dramatically. (On a barbox that doesn't have its side opened up to bypass having to take coins to retrieve the balls, this might prove difficult.)
- Get a good book on the subject, like any of Phil Capelle's works, or R. Givens' The 8-ball Bible.
Hope this helps!
-Sean
My biggest struggle with 8 ball is that I have to choose the pattern and sequence of shots instead of having a defined order of shots as in 9 ball. Instead of having an obvious safety due to missing shape on the next ball (9 ball) it's too easy to just take the wrong shot and dig a hole for yourself in 8 ball. Because of how each game is scored, it sounds like you have no problem making balls for points. Maybe focus your practice on 8 ball, and concentrate on finding the right shot selections to deal with problems instead of clearing away your balls before screwing yourself and leaving a wide open table for your opponent. Look for safety opportunities that will allow you to deal with the layout on your terms.
sfleinen GREAT ADVICE thank you.
I dont seem to have a problem with running the balls in the right pattern but for some reason I will miss the last ball on an easy shot? Did it twice last night ran 6-7 balls and then just miss. Which of course left him with a wide open table. I know I nned to work on safety play in 8ball as well. Practice practice practice lol
I dont seem to have a problem with running the balls in the right pattern but for some reason I will miss the last ball on an easy shot? Did it twice last night ran 6-7 balls and then just miss. Which of course left him with a wide open table. I know I nned to work on safety play in 8ball as well. Practice practice practice lol
8-ball strategy
Eight-ball requires a bit more strategy than 9-ball, and is difficult to learn by oneself.
It's also requires more than a couple paragraphs to explain 8-ball strategy.
I'd suggest purchasing R. Givens' "The Eight-Ball Bible", and/or seeking lessons from an instructor who specializes in 8-ball. Part of my 8-ball instruction includes 50 defensive moves...
Eight-ball requires a bit more strategy than 9-ball, and is difficult to learn by oneself.
It's also requires more than a couple paragraphs to explain 8-ball strategy.
I'd suggest purchasing R. Givens' "The Eight-Ball Bible", and/or seeking lessons from an instructor who specializes in 8-ball. Part of my 8-ball instruction includes 50 defensive moves...
training game for 8 ball
Here is a video from a student of mine (ALEX) who plays a training game for
8-ball that you can as well train on your own. In this video he plays the 8+3 version of the game
I call the game 8+x
You can start with 9 balls (8+1) and when you succeed 3 times in a row add another striped ball to your rack. When you succeded 3 times in a row add the third striped ball and try to run out with ball in hand after the break and so on.
Link: http://youtu.be/Tkn1bAO6rq0
Here is a video from a student of mine (ALEX) who plays a training game for
8-ball that you can as well train on your own. In this video he plays the 8+3 version of the game
I call the game 8+x
You can start with 9 balls (8+1) and when you succeed 3 times in a row add another striped ball to your rack. When you succeded 3 times in a row add the third striped ball and try to run out with ball in hand after the break and so on.
Link: http://youtu.be/Tkn1bAO6rq0
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Here's how I play 8 ball....plan your run in your head in REVERSE. Start with the 8 ball, and work the pattern backwards to the first ball you intend to shoot. Granted this is in a perfect world, and you almost ALWAYS have trouble or unknown situations.....SO......
If it's too hard to plan the entire run out, start with the first sequence you need to play.....hopefully the trouble parts! Maybe its a break out, or clearing a pocket, but still start with the end result, work back to where you are starting, and see that in your head. When you finish the first part of your run, do the same thing for the next part.
BTW this is the same way I play rotation games....in groups of 3...work backwards. I learned this from King James Rempe!
have fun,
G.
If it's too hard to plan the entire run out, start with the first sequence you need to play.....hopefully the trouble parts! Maybe its a break out, or clearing a pocket, but still start with the end result, work back to where you are starting, and see that in your head. When you finish the first part of your run, do the same thing for the next part.
BTW this is the same way I play rotation games....in groups of 3...work backwards. I learned this from King James Rempe!
have fun,
G.
If closing out is your problem in 8 ball, you're probably not sticking to one of the golden rules...
work backwards and pick your ball before the 8.
If you're extra careful you plan the whole out,
but you can often get away with just that last ball, plus maybe the ball before it.
One of the ways I can spot a strong 8b player vs. a weaker one is...
even if they both can run a rack... the strong one almost always
saves a ball like this 4 ball in the diagram below.
The end of his runout is like stop-stop-stop.
The weak one just plays shape for the simplest, most obvious ball,
until he's down to just one, then is stuck with some ugly
multi-rail position shot to fall on the 8 (like the 10 ball shot shown).
Then he bumps something, gets hidden, or even scratches.
work backwards and pick your ball before the 8.
If you're extra careful you plan the whole out,
but you can often get away with just that last ball, plus maybe the ball before it.
One of the ways I can spot a strong 8b player vs. a weaker one is...
even if they both can run a rack... the strong one almost always
saves a ball like this 4 ball in the diagram below.
The end of his runout is like stop-stop-stop.
The weak one just plays shape for the simplest, most obvious ball,
until he's down to just one, then is stuck with some ugly
multi-rail position shot to fall on the 8 (like the 10 ball shot shown).
Then he bumps something, gets hidden, or even scratches.
The game I have played the most in all of my 46 years of playing is 8 ball.
You have gotten some great insight so far. IMHO cue ball control is probably the most important aspect, mybe even more so than pocketing balls. I will probabaly get some flack for that statement but many times it is true. Many times pocketing the wrong ball at the wrong time can lead to a loss if one does not finish the run. Pocketing a ball & not having another makable shot or saftey can be just as bad. Sometimes missing a ball 'the right way' can be the crucial shot that leads to a win.
Cue ball control is vital not just for position sake put for breaking clusters to either finish a run or to set up a run IF you get to shoot again, as well as , for playing defensively. In other words shot selection even if resuting in a mis may be more important than pocketing another ball.
For the reasons stated, english can be a very valuable tool plus for the ability to avoid hitting other balls for various reasons. You may not want to break out your opponents ball depending on the situation & timing in the game or you may not want move one of your own balls for various reasons.
When I go to the table to shoot I want to see my way all the way to pocketing the 8 ball. I will see where the cue is & where the 8 ball is & then work in both directions in my mind from the cue ball forward & back from the 8 ball unti I have made the connection of a full run. I know what I want to do to win the game. Naturally no one is perfect, so the road map may have to be modified during the trip. But I work back from the 8 & forward from the cue ball until the two plans meet somewhere in between & if not, then changes have to made until they do or if for some reason they can't then a plan for a saftie or a 2-way shot has to be inserted.
So, all that said, to answer the question, the best way to practice IMHO other than actually playing games that do not really count against actual people is to play against yourself. Either throw the balls out on the table or break them if you wish & then just play as you normally would, but play both sides, the solids & the stripes. When doing this, do it seriously including playing safe on yourself. I think this will teach you the consquences of shooting the wrong shot if you mis etc, Naturally the better player you are the better game type practice this will be. There will be times when you may want to try some difficult shots & that will be okay as you will start to see both the reward for making such a shot AND the penalty should you mis such a shot. Then after a while you will learn how to play two way shots. That is in a way that if you make the shot , fine, but if you mis it, the opponent, you when practicing, will be left with either a difficult run out or a difficult shot to start a run. This will also train you to look at both sides when you actually play for real so that you willl know how to not help out your opponent & in fact make it even harder on him or her when possible.
Sorry if this rant in any way sounds like preaching. It is just my best $0.02 answer in hope of helping you to become a better 8 ball player. I hope something helps.
Regards to You &
You have gotten some great insight so far. IMHO cue ball control is probably the most important aspect, mybe even more so than pocketing balls. I will probabaly get some flack for that statement but many times it is true. Many times pocketing the wrong ball at the wrong time can lead to a loss if one does not finish the run. Pocketing a ball & not having another makable shot or saftey can be just as bad. Sometimes missing a ball 'the right way' can be the crucial shot that leads to a win.
Cue ball control is vital not just for position sake put for breaking clusters to either finish a run or to set up a run IF you get to shoot again, as well as , for playing defensively. In other words shot selection even if resuting in a mis may be more important than pocketing another ball.
For the reasons stated, english can be a very valuable tool plus for the ability to avoid hitting other balls for various reasons. You may not want to break out your opponents ball depending on the situation & timing in the game or you may not want move one of your own balls for various reasons.
When I go to the table to shoot I want to see my way all the way to pocketing the 8 ball. I will see where the cue is & where the 8 ball is & then work in both directions in my mind from the cue ball forward & back from the 8 ball unti I have made the connection of a full run. I know what I want to do to win the game. Naturally no one is perfect, so the road map may have to be modified during the trip. But I work back from the 8 & forward from the cue ball until the two plans meet somewhere in between & if not, then changes have to made until they do or if for some reason they can't then a plan for a saftie or a 2-way shot has to be inserted.
So, all that said, to answer the question, the best way to practice IMHO other than actually playing games that do not really count against actual people is to play against yourself. Either throw the balls out on the table or break them if you wish & then just play as you normally would, but play both sides, the solids & the stripes. When doing this, do it seriously including playing safe on yourself. I think this will teach you the consquences of shooting the wrong shot if you mis etc, Naturally the better player you are the better game type practice this will be. There will be times when you may want to try some difficult shots & that will be okay as you will start to see both the reward for making such a shot AND the penalty should you mis such a shot. Then after a while you will learn how to play two way shots. That is in a way that if you make the shot , fine, but if you mis it, the opponent, you when practicing, will be left with either a difficult run out or a difficult shot to start a run. This will also train you to look at both sides when you actually play for real so that you willl know how to not help out your opponent & in fact make it even harder on him or her when possible.
Sorry if this rant in any way sounds like preaching. It is just my best $0.02 answer in hope of helping you to become a better 8 ball player. I hope something helps.
Regards to You &
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You're welcome. The condition you describe is called "moneyball-itis" -- or "next-to-moneyball-itis."
What you can do -- and is actually easy to do if you can program this as a habit -- is instead of letting your attention divert towards the 8-ball as you get closer to it -- divert your attention to one of your opponent's balls nearest to the 8-ball.
In other words, don't do the "OMG! I'm getting close to the 8-ball and winning the game! OMG!" attention-grabber. Make believe you have one more ball beyond the 8-ball. This will take the "golden aura" away from the 8-ball so that you're not sharked by it.
Yes, when shooting your last ball of your category prior to the 8-ball, you may already be a victim of moneyball-itis, because you're obviously trying to get position on the 8-ball, in amongst the rest of the congestion on the table. Your attention is being diverted away from making that penultimate ball, so that you can get position on the 8-ball, and TOO MUCH attention has been diverted, so you end up missing that penultimate ball (perhaps you "threw your stick at it," or you took it for granted?). Instead, think of the 8-ball as your "next to last" ball, as if you're trying to get position on something else beyond the 8-ball.
Try that for a few games, and see if it takes the "aura" away from the 8-ball. It should force you to put more attention on the "make" for that penultimate ball.
Hope this helps!
-Sean
For solo practice and even with weak players I use 4 solids, 4 stripes and the 8 ball. Rack like 9 ball and play 8 ball (I call it short rack 8 ball, something I think I heard). If by myself I take ball in hand until I am really running them well.
The other thing I like to do is the 8 balls and one stripe or solid. But I like the idea I just saw with addung another ball for a challenge.
The thing is, if you can't run out the last 4 balls and the 8 for the win consistantly, you will loose to weaker player more often than you would like to admit. And if you can run out the 7 solids and the 8 bal consistantly, you'll be able to beat stronger palyer more often than they would like to admit.
As for how I play 8 ball:
Like everyone else I decide what suit is better and what my problems are.
On a rack that is runnable for me I first decide what is the prime pocket for the 8 ball.
Then I look at what the easiest ball to get possition for that is (hopefully it will be a stop shot ball possition).
Then the ball that will get me there.
Then I look to where I want to start my run and the 2 balls that connet to that pattern.
There will be 1 or 2 balls left, they connect my beggining pattern and my end pattern. Learned this from Bob LeBlanc, and works well for me...
Hope these things can help.
Pete
The other thing I like to do is the 8 balls and one stripe or solid. But I like the idea I just saw with addung another ball for a challenge.
The thing is, if you can't run out the last 4 balls and the 8 for the win consistantly, you will loose to weaker player more often than you would like to admit. And if you can run out the 7 solids and the 8 bal consistantly, you'll be able to beat stronger palyer more often than they would like to admit.
As for how I play 8 ball:
Like everyone else I decide what suit is better and what my problems are.
On a rack that is runnable for me I first decide what is the prime pocket for the 8 ball.
Then I look at what the easiest ball to get possition for that is (hopefully it will be a stop shot ball possition).
Then the ball that will get me there.
Then I look to where I want to start my run and the 2 balls that connet to that pattern.
There will be 1 or 2 balls left, they connect my beggining pattern and my end pattern. Learned this from Bob LeBlanc, and works well for me...
Hope these things can help.
Pete
8 ball
90% of the time you have at least 1 to 2 problem balls, balls that cannot be pocketed without some kind of break out.
The problem with break outs in 8 ball is you normaly transfer the problem to another one of your object balls , or just create another problem.
Knowing when to break out is the million $ question I call it letting the dogs out because if you miss you are screwed.
MMike
90% of the time you have at least 1 to 2 problem balls, balls that cannot be pocketed without some kind of break out.
The problem with break outs in 8 ball is you normaly transfer the problem to another one of your object balls , or just create another problem.
Knowing when to break out is the million $ question I call it letting the dogs out because if you miss you are screwed.
MMike
If you play the groups in rotation, it's call "Action 8-ball"
To the OP: I practice 14.1 a lot; it helps with identifying balls that can break up clusters. It also helps with playing safe. I find that playing safe on a barbox requires a very light touch and thin-hitting balls a lot. I developed that playing 14.1 Also, 8-ball on a barbox requires tight position play which is what 14.1 is all about.
I also specifically practice 8-ball by rolling out all the solids or stripes plus the 8-ball. I start with ball-in-hand, plan my run-out and do it. If I miss, I set it up again, and start over. If I just missed position, then I do the run the same way. Sometimes, though, my plan was just bad so I do something completely different.
-matthew
I think you have hit the nail on the head with this statement!! and to all the other advide given THANK YOU !! I do work backwards knowing which ball i need to leave for shape on the 8 but for some dang reason I will miss it or the ball before it. It is like what sfleinen said I get careless toward the end of the run and just miss that one ball I need to make. I will usually run at least 5-6 balls with no problem then that last one I just brain fart on.
I too do majority of my practice in my basement by myself for 8 ball and have done many of the good practice sessions already mentioned.
In addition, the one extra thing I do, is whenever I get down to the key ball in completing the run out (whether is the 8 ball or an object ball), I take a step back from the table and take a few extra seconds to get my mind really focused on the shot. I’ve gotten in the habit of walking around the table regardless if its a practice session or in league. This little step has helped me reduce the number of times I miss a makeable shot for the win. Hope this helps!
In addition, the one extra thing I do, is whenever I get down to the key ball in completing the run out (whether is the 8 ball or an object ball), I take a step back from the table and take a few extra seconds to get my mind really focused on the shot. I’ve gotten in the habit of walking around the table regardless if its a practice session or in league. This little step has helped me reduce the number of times I miss a makeable shot for the win. Hope this helps!
I too do majority of my practice in my basement by myself for 8 ball and have done many of the good practice sessions already mentioned.
In addition, the one extra thing I do, is whenever I get down to the key ball in completing the run out (whether is the 8 ball or an object ball), I take a step back from the table and take a few extra seconds to get my mind really focused on the shot. I’ve gotten in the habit of walking around the table regardless if its a practice session or in league. This little step has helped me reduce the number of times I miss a makeable shot for the win. Hope this helps!
Ken
In addition, the one extra thing I do, is whenever I get down to the key ball in completing the run out (whether is the 8 ball or an object ball), I take a step back from the table and take a few extra seconds to get my mind really focused on the shot. I’ve gotten in the habit of walking around the table regardless if its a practice session or in league. This little step has helped me reduce the number of times I miss a makeable shot for the win. Hope this helps!
Ken