isn't that one of the goal's of APA get to Vegas and play for big money?
Best Worst Quote EVER from an APA League Operator
- Thread starter zerowins
- Start date
isn't that one of the goal's of APA get to Vegas and play for big money?
Why do so many believe APA league operators rke in so much dough?
I know some and help one and I have to admit, I'm shocked that anyone can operate a business and yes its a business, for such little return.
There's money due to the APA for operating a franchise, there's countless patches and trophies ordered plus other local perks if done for players, office supplies such as ink, paper, envelopes, postage and more plus liability insurance that's required. All this takes the majority of dues to pay and what's left is what the LOs have to live off of. Now keep in mind if its a good LO they do extra things, have to run errands which is another expense that's crazy with current fuel prices.
A good LO can be contacted almost anytime and trust me, the calls are endless and so are complaints about this person did this or that and the LO has to work it out.
For someone to handle the paperwork each week, talk to each member and counsel them constantly, put on events for every skill level and prep teams for vegas and get them there..............these people aren't even making close to minimum wage so why is that making too much?
For the bad LOs maybe they are making money for doing too little but that's not the majority. The ones I know work their butts off and do more than what they get paid for.
The ones I know love pool and found a way to make a living although not a great one unless they build an area to hundreds of teams but even doing that means their expenses increase. Its not a great living but for those that love pool and want to do something they love..........getting paid less to squeak by is better to them than doing something they hate just to make a little more. Not many in pool make a good living and good for the LOs that have managed to do it but trust me, its no get rich deal for the majority. Self employed pool people have it tough..........LOs are no different they just happen to be part of an organized franchise that makes it easier to be self employed doing something they love
I know some and help one and I have to admit, I'm shocked that anyone can operate a business and yes its a business, for such little return.
There's money due to the APA for operating a franchise, there's countless patches and trophies ordered plus other local perks if done for players, office supplies such as ink, paper, envelopes, postage and more plus liability insurance that's required. All this takes the majority of dues to pay and what's left is what the LOs have to live off of. Now keep in mind if its a good LO they do extra things, have to run errands which is another expense that's crazy with current fuel prices.
A good LO can be contacted almost anytime and trust me, the calls are endless and so are complaints about this person did this or that and the LO has to work it out.
For someone to handle the paperwork each week, talk to each member and counsel them constantly, put on events for every skill level and prep teams for vegas and get them there..............these people aren't even making close to minimum wage so why is that making too much?
For the bad LOs maybe they are making money for doing too little but that's not the majority. The ones I know work their butts off and do more than what they get paid for.
The ones I know love pool and found a way to make a living although not a great one unless they build an area to hundreds of teams but even doing that means their expenses increase. Its not a great living but for those that love pool and want to do something they love..........getting paid less to squeak by is better to them than doing something they hate just to make a little more. Not many in pool make a good living and good for the LOs that have managed to do it but trust me, its no get rich deal for the majority. Self employed pool people have it tough..........LOs are no different they just happen to be part of an organized franchise that makes it easier to be self employed doing something they love
Now, you're being silly. Is this your idea of rational thought.
miplayerstour...Tap, tap, tap! You got it all correct! Depending on expenses, the average APA LO "nets" between $5 and $10 per TEAM. That is before taxes too. If you have more than 200 teams, you're probably making an okay living (pre-tax $50K-$100K), but as you said, there's a lot of work involved. As you mentioned, the biggest job is babysitting all the players! LOL
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Who is fronting the $2K? The pool hall?
Yup..................
I hope I don't get beat up too much for saying this, but don't we all have lives? Isn't APA all about getting together with people you enjoy being with, to have some fun?
Leagues take time and effort. I would think the APA fees cover the cost of running these events, and that should be the extent of the "payout".
I'm sorry I guess since I'm not a gambler (never was) and I have no need to play for money, the issue is moot to me. I don't enjoy the game if the person I'm playing isn't enjoying it as well. Why let money get in the way of having fun?
Maybe it's just me. I see pool as a game. I see "professional pool players" as a farce. The well will dry up one day and I hope these "professional pool players" are ready when they go to the bank for a house loan and are laughed out into the street.
Poolmouse
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From what I've read regarding this situation, the pool hall adds the $2k, the only allowed players to compete are the players that already have membership to APA, or it might even encourage outsiders to join the APA just to play in this, and they're using the APA handicapping system with no added monies or promotion from APA, and the LO says no.
I think that if this event were a success, the league players will start to get used to getting paid to win, and they might even practice more so they could start winning the instant tourney money events, as oppose to the end of the season events.
Also if this was a success, with the use of the APA handicap system, the players might think it was an APA approved/endorsed event, and might expect more events of such nature to be run by the LO.
I think that if this event were a success, the league players will start to get used to getting paid to win, and they might even practice more so they could start winning the instant tourney money events, as oppose to the end of the season events.
Also if this was a success, with the use of the APA handicap system, the players might think it was an APA approved/endorsed event, and might expect more events of such nature to be run by the LO.
"... How about this one, during the city finals:
"You can't go to the bathroom during a match. You forfeit."
This rule has been in effect for years in the Jackson County, Mo (greater Kansas City) tournament to prevent illegal coaching OR delay of game.
All players are allowed one time out per game. After calling that one TO then, a few innings later, find themselves needing more advice suddenly they would need to make a pit stop. Of course half their team would already be in the rest room to pass on the illegal coaching advice OR teams would want to slow down the match so as to require the sudden match after 3 hours, 45 minutes. We used to get comments like "gotta pee, be right back" and then the player would disappear for 15-20 minutes while the clock keeps ticking.
This happened last month in point one of our finals and the LO (me) ruled the game a forfeit to the opponent, who ended up winnng the entire point. Rules were announced at every meeting and even posted on the wall near the bathroom. The violating player actually walked past the printed rule that was taped to the wall, on his way to the restroom.
My words at the captains meeting - "If you think this will be an issue just don't drink so much. Go pee between games."
If your opponent is out of TOs and you have him hooked but he says "gotta pee, be right back" and you see him enter the bathroom along with two or three of his best teammates, then he comes back in 10 minutes and immediately plays a killer safety on YOU and you hear his team mates saying "just like I told him to do" - how thrilled would you be?
It's called closing a loophole that some players, when sensing a loss coming up, will try to exploit.
Tom Campbell
APA LO since 1980 in greater KC area
"You can't go to the bathroom during a match. You forfeit."
This rule has been in effect for years in the Jackson County, Mo (greater Kansas City) tournament to prevent illegal coaching OR delay of game.
All players are allowed one time out per game. After calling that one TO then, a few innings later, find themselves needing more advice suddenly they would need to make a pit stop. Of course half their team would already be in the rest room to pass on the illegal coaching advice OR teams would want to slow down the match so as to require the sudden match after 3 hours, 45 minutes. We used to get comments like "gotta pee, be right back" and then the player would disappear for 15-20 minutes while the clock keeps ticking.
This happened last month in point one of our finals and the LO (me) ruled the game a forfeit to the opponent, who ended up winnng the entire point. Rules were announced at every meeting and even posted on the wall near the bathroom. The violating player actually walked past the printed rule that was taped to the wall, on his way to the restroom.
My words at the captains meeting - "If you think this will be an issue just don't drink so much. Go pee between games."
If your opponent is out of TOs and you have him hooked but he says "gotta pee, be right back" and you see him enter the bathroom along with two or three of his best teammates, then he comes back in 10 minutes and immediately plays a killer safety on YOU and you hear his team mates saying "just like I told him to do" - how thrilled would you be?
It's called closing a loophole that some players, when sensing a loss coming up, will try to exploit.
Tom Campbell
APA LO since 1980 in greater KC area
I know a couple APA league operators and they have jobs with good income. They do it for fun, not for profit. I'm not sure if all APA league operators are going home with no return for their effort, but I doubt anyone would be doing it for the money. There's simply nothing to gain in running an APA league.
The APA league operators I know are happy to cover thier expenses, so there is no out of pocket and they're happy to have fun (albeit with the usual frustration of having to deal with the occasional league nit).
Poolmouse
The subject of the money coming in, and money being paid back to those who play APA Leagues at Season End has been discussed again, and again on AZB.
Quoting Scott above. "If you have more than 200 teams, you're probably making an okay living (pre-tax $50K-$100K), but as you said, there's a lot of work involved". I think that is great part time income, and beats being a Wal-Mart Greeter.
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with 200 hundred teams its full time for at least 2 people to clarify
So, that's not a great living its just ok. There is no secret stash these people make................they barely make a living that's acceptable given the work that's required and as Scott confirmed, most work is handling the players because its non stop.
So, that's not a great living its just ok. There is no secret stash these people make................they barely make a living that's acceptable given the work that's required and as Scott confirmed, most work is handling the players because its non stop.
poolmouse...While that may be true where you live, there are several APA LO's who have hundreds of teams, that are making a great living. Terry Justice, who was at one time (he may still be) the largest APA LO, with well over 1000 teams, is a millionaire...just from running an APA league. Established APA territories have sold for millions of dollars...so there obviously is something to be gained (in some areas) in running an APA league.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I know a couple APA league operators and they have jobs with good income. They do it for fun, not for profit. I'm not sure if all APA league operators are going home with no return for their effort, but I doubt anyone would be doing it for the money. There's simply nothing to gain in running an APA league.
The APA league operators I know are happy to cover thier expenses, so there is no out of pocket and they're happy to have fun (albeit with the usual frustration of having to deal with the occasional league nit).
Poolmouse
Well you made the point I was trying to make there is money in running a successful APA League Operation.
The biggest dumb statement I ever heard was when I asked our former APA operator why one team had won the vegas trip and a second session for an extra $500 on top of there $8000 team money three years in a row in both 8ball and 9ball and never had one player's handicap go up. He looked me straight in the eyes and said I played on there team for three years and I know there handicaps are right. He took a great offer and sold out soon after to a new LO that has done a great job all the way around.--Leonard
Please tell me that this isnt in miami.....
Your pool hall? $500 added is generally a big deal for a local pool hall.
think about it
Thousands of teams!!! Do you realize how much work that is and how many people Terry Justice has to staff to handle that many players?
It has to be a full time commitment when you get to 200 teams and it doesn't pay you what would be considered minimum wage if you're doing all you should be doing. Once you get to Terry Justice size, heck yes you can make money but you work to get it. I don't understand why any self employed person in the industry is vilified for earning a living at something pool related.
This has nothing to do with the APA necessarily, its how much money is supposedly acceptable for anyone to make off of pool. That's crazy! Why can't people make money from pool, as long as they aren't flat out robbing anyone.
So if a league operator for any organized league makes 30k a year for working hard and giving back to pool and players this is somehow robbing players? I guess I missed the bus there because I don't get it.
There's money to be made doing anything if you apply yourself and have the right area and customers. How much is acceptable? When does the line get crossed?
While there is money to be made, most league operators do have other jobs because they have to in order to survive. The ones the do work the league full time that have average or smaller areas are doing it to get by because they love pool and are investing in growth. No one is getting rich quick.
Terry Justice grew a territory and did a lot of work to get there or he wouldn't have gotten to 1000 teams so he's done something right. Can't people that operate pool related businesses properly regardless of what they are make a living without being labeled a thief of sorts?
I really would like to understand that thought process because I must be missing some important points
Thousands of teams!!! Do you realize how much work that is and how many people Terry Justice has to staff to handle that many players?
It has to be a full time commitment when you get to 200 teams and it doesn't pay you what would be considered minimum wage if you're doing all you should be doing. Once you get to Terry Justice size, heck yes you can make money but you work to get it. I don't understand why any self employed person in the industry is vilified for earning a living at something pool related.
This has nothing to do with the APA necessarily, its how much money is supposedly acceptable for anyone to make off of pool. That's crazy! Why can't people make money from pool, as long as they aren't flat out robbing anyone.
So if a league operator for any organized league makes 30k a year for working hard and giving back to pool and players this is somehow robbing players? I guess I missed the bus there because I don't get it.
There's money to be made doing anything if you apply yourself and have the right area and customers. How much is acceptable? When does the line get crossed?
While there is money to be made, most league operators do have other jobs because they have to in order to survive. The ones the do work the league full time that have average or smaller areas are doing it to get by because they love pool and are investing in growth. No one is getting rich quick.
Terry Justice grew a territory and did a lot of work to get there or he wouldn't have gotten to 1000 teams so he's done something right. Can't people that operate pool related businesses properly regardless of what they are make a living without being labeled a thief of sorts?
I really would like to understand that thought process because I must be missing some important points
This one came in today at the LTC's.
LO: "We dont want anybody gambling. Once you start gambling, youre not considered 'amateurs' anymore."
Me: "So if two SL2's play for $5, they arent amateurs anymore?"
LO: Thats right.
Me: "Does that make them pros then?"
LO" "......................"
LO: "We dont want anybody gambling. Once you start gambling, youre not considered 'amateurs' anymore."
Me: "So if two SL2's play for $5, they arent amateurs anymore?"
LO: Thats right.
Me: "Does that make them pros then?"
LO" "......................"