Beware of Dave Sutton !!!!

Okay Dave, I see. But you still owe a person or two ? Right?

Let's make it right.

Rogwin, you need to refund him

Onepocket, you should have sent him the replacement cue in good faith. You already had his money from the previous cue no?

If Onepocket had paid you let's say $XXX for the first cue, it was "damaged" and waited a long time for. You should have sent him the replacemtn cue. Then he can pay you $XX difference.

He is out of $$$$ and time, and nothing to show for, you are forcing him to pay more money into a deep shit, that's not fair. Put yourself in his shoes. And you've had a lot of issues with people's cue, how can you be trusted. How can onepocket trust you with more money?
 
Duce said:
Okay Dave, I see. But you still owe a person or two ? Right?

Let's make it right.

Rogwin, you need to refund him

Onepocket, you should have sent him the replacement cue in good faith. You already had his money from the previous cue no?

If Onepocket had paid you let's say $XXX for the first cue, it was "damaged" and waited a long time for. You should have sent him the replacemtn cue. Then he can pay you $XX difference.

He is out of $$$$ and time, and nothing to show for, you are forcing him to pay more money into a deep shit, that's not fair. Put yourself in his shoes. And you've had a lot of issues with people's cue, how can you be trusted. How can onepocket trust you with more money?
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No happening. Sorry. Low posts. Almost zero itrader. He was already getting a 1500$ cue for 1000$

Paid 500$ and owed 500$. He agreed to this deal and liked the cue. However no one sends a cue to a member with zero reputation just on his word. I have sold over 100 cues on azb. I said back then there isn't an azer I would send a cue to without payment. I retract that statement. I would send a cue to about 5 people. He isn't one of them.

When I offered to pay for escrow he insisted I send him the cue without payment first. That is the only way he would do business. This to me is VERY deceitful.

The language of this conversation clearly stated to me his intentions were NOT GOOD.

I offered to repair the damaged cue. He declined. Totally understandable It was damaged in the handle and would not affect the cue at all. I could have repaired the cue and sent it to him and he never would have known but I did the right thing and told him the issue. I did not want to send out a cue with previous damage and the owner not know.
 
Ecc 10:1 Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: [so doth] a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom [and] honour.

What does this mean? Well, it means that those who are known by their flawless wisdom and honour, and that have a great outstanding reputation, can easily be forgotten as someone who has great honor and a great reputation, if they make a mistake. Why? Because they are expected NOT to make mistakes or have faults. They are expected not to operate under the established level of their previous reputation. The are held to a very high standard, and when that standard is not met, it sticks out like a a pound of heinz ketchup on a white t-shirt

So, hows does this apply to this situation? Well, it does in my opinion. Because from what I see Dave has had a great rep beforehand, and has recently had a few hiccups in his reputation which NONE of us probably fully know the whole story or the fact involved not even the MODs.

I would suggest that unless you are the one involved and know the facts to wisely stay out of the matter. Why? Because you may be the next one, in a situation much like this in the future, and you may feel the same heat as some of you are putting on Dave, justly or unjustly, it does not matter. If he was such a crook, he could easily just never log on again, many of you probably know where he lives and how to actually get in touch with him in person. So it makes no sense if he was this wicked villian to try and stay on this forum and salvage his reputation for a few measly hundos. And not only that, but the risk of getting in trouble with the law if he was actually intentionally committing fraud.

I do not know him, I have done 1 transaction with him, and everything went 110% smooth as could be. As a matter of fact an overnight shipment was done, and I did not even request one. 2 Cues arrived at my door the next day after I paid a large sum of money for them.

I may be as some of you say the lucky one, but I honestly think that it was not luck, since I do not believe in luck. I believe that Dave has had an issue with a few guys, and that one of the situations involved more than 1 person with the same transaction, not sure but thats my understanding. And maybe one other issue, of which I believe he has owned up to and said he would refund money if the guy would commmunicate with him. But not until after new years. Right or wrong? I don't know, but at least he said he would.

Now if he does not send that money, then everyone would have a right to really ride his ass I would think until he does. Which I am sure he probably does not want to happen.

The only perfect person I know of was Jesus Christ, any of you know someone else who does not make mistakes? Do you believe that people can make mistakes and correct them and deserve forgiveness for their mistakes? I am sure that most of you on here are Christians and would expect or at least hope to have that type of treatment if the rock was in your shoe.....

Again, I want to be clear on this. In no way do I know Dave other than the transaction I made. And the reputation I see he has had before these incidents which seems flawless. So, logically I will give him the benefit of doubt. As for a moderator chiming in publickly and stirring the pot, in my opinion thats not a very professional thing to do in this situation, what's the purpose and motivation behind that move?

In my honest humble opinion give him some slack, let him straighten it out between himself and the others, if the MOD wants to be the middle man, to referee this, thats fine, but not publickly unless it is not resolved. If not resolved then by all means do what needs to be done.

It's hilarious how 3 mistakes, which are probably not all or even 1/2 Daves fault can ruin his reputation on this forum. Where are those that have great deals with him. Why aren't you standing up? Are you afraid to take a stand for someone? It's obvious he is getting bombarded with accusations that may or may not be true. Or that your only getting 1/2 truths, distorted truths or lopp sided biased truths.

Regarless of that, as I said before, people are weak, they make mistakes, and if anyone on here is ballsy enought to say they dont, let them say so...

Then I can call them a liar publickly...
 
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Thank you Steve for your kind words. It was 3 cues in the same package and one saw. Both shipped from the same UPS STORE in the SAME WEEK. BOTH ENDING UP BROKEN.

I have stated I will make it right but some choose to just beat my brains in. Starting a thread like this deff doesn't HELP the cause. I think most of the time people would just log off and never think about it again. Instead I fight and say I will handle it.

Also. If I had all these aliases (?) I could simply log on and sell cues under a squeaky clean name and it would take a LOOOONG time to get caught. Instead... I fight and say I will fix it.

I have had plenty of support. I've done over 100 deals on az. Almost all would buy from me again with confidence. However, I do not blame them for standing up for me. A few have in the last threads and they got bashed.

I will not lie. I was deff wrong in my reaction. I tried to keep quiet but I can only get my brains bashed in for so long before I lost it.

Again. Thank you for our deal and thank you more for your support.
 
dave, didn't you say about a dozen posts ago that would be your last post on this thread? try keeping track of what you say and stick to it. and the phony trading comments is really sinking to a new low.

i'm still waiting to see some of your work, why not post some pics while you're shooting yourself in the other foot? would you please add me to that strange list you mentioned earlier?

to those quoting the wise words of others - how about -

where there's smoke ,there's fire.

my dad (rip) always told me that a liar is always a thief as well.
 
pletho said:
Ecc 10:1 Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: [so doth] a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom [and] honour.

What does this mean? Well, it means that those who are known by their flawless wisdom and honour, and that have a great outstanding reputation, can easily be forgotten as someone who has great honor and a great reputation, if they make a mistake. Why? Because they are expected NOT to make mistakes or have faults. They are expected not to operate under the established level of their previous reputation. The are held to a very high standard, and when that standard is not met, it sticks out like a a pound of heinz ketchup on a white t-shirt

So, hows does this apply to this situation? Well, it does in my opinion. Because from what I see Dave has had a great rep beforehand, and has recently had a few hiccups in his reputation which NONE of us probably fully know the whole story or the fact involved not even the MODs.

I would suggest that unless you are the one involved and know the facts to wisely stay out of the matter. Why? Because you may be the next one, in a situation much like this in the future, and you may feel the same heat as some of you are putting on Dave, justly or unjustly, it does not matter. If he was such a crook, he could easily just never log on again, many of you probably know where he lives and how to actually get in touch with him in person. So it makes no sense if he was this wicked villian to try and stay on this forum and salvage his reputation for a few measly hundos. And not only that, but the risk of getting in trouble with the law if he was actually intentionally committing fraud.

I do not know him, I have done 1 transaction with him, and everything went 110% smooth as could be. As a matter of fact an overnight shipment was done, and I did not even request one. 2 Cues arrived at my door the next day after I paid a large sum of money for them.

I may be as some of you say the lucky one, but I honestly think that it was not luck, since I do not believe in luck. I believe that Dave has had an issue with a few guys, and that one of the situations involved more than 1 person with the same transaction, not sure but thats my understanding. And maybe one other issue, of which I believe he has owned up to and said he would refund money if the guy would commmunicate with him. But not until after new years. Right or wrong? I don't know, but at least he said he would.

Now if he does not send that money, then everyone would have a right to really ride his ass I would think until he does. Which I am sure he probably does not want to happen.

The only perfect person I know of was Jesus Christ, any of you know someone else who does not make mistakes? Do you believe that people can make mistakes and correct them and deserve forgiveness for their mistakes? I am sure that most of you on here are Christians and would expect or at least hope to have that type of treatment if the rock was in your shoe.....

Again, I want to be clear on this. In no way do I know Dave other than the transaction I made. And the reputation I see he has had before these incidents which seems flawless. So, logically I will give him the benefit of doubt. As for a moderator chiming in publickly and stirring the pot, in my opinion thats not a very professional thing to do in this situation, what's the purpose and motivation behind that move?

In my honest humble opinion give him some slack, let him straighten it out between himself and the others, if the MOD wants to be the middle man, to referee this, thats fine, but not publickly unless it is not resolved. If not resolved then by all means do what needs to be done.

It's hilarious how 3 mistakes, which are probably not all or even 1/2 Daves fault can ruin his reputation on this forum. Where are those that have great deals with him. Why aren't you standing up? Are you afraid to take a stand for someone? It's obvious he is getting bombarded with accusations that may or may not be true. Or that your only getting 1/2 truths, distorted truths or lopp sided biased truths.

Regarless of that, as I said before, people are weak, they make mistakes, and if anyone on here is ballsy enought to say they dont, let them say so...

Then I can call them a liar publickly...
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Honest? I'll give you this one unless you prove otherwise.

Humble? The sheer length of your last post casts doubt upon that claim.

Betting on the wrong pony here? YUP and apparently "all in" at that. :p

Do yourself a favor and search for a well respected Az'er named Jeff Forney and see if you can swing a deal with him for a nice cue or perhaps a couple of nice plunge routers.......:o

Publickly?????:sorry:
 
You keep saying you have over 100 done deals here on az . Why doesn't your I trader reflect that? Funny how you have only 38 with several duplicates from the addresses mr Wilson spoke of . Kinda makes you go hmmmmm.
 
dave sutton said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=245513&highlight=Cyrex&page=3

Rex canceled his order and was refunded by me. I don't think I ever posted on that other site.

All this trouble came from Mario. Mcues lying saying I owed him
Money when his saw got delivered damaged by ups. He returned the saw to ups for a refund and not me. There for ups refunded him
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Well Dave, I suggest that you look into a better procedure when dealing with customers to avoid recurring issues.

I suggest the following procedures:

1. Have a contract type disclaimer and in PM or email have the buyer "Agree" to the terms and condition. Have them state "Hi Dave Sutton, I have read the terms and the conditions" you've attached. This way you will have proof. PDF files would be a good start.

2. I see that many cue/case makers cannot keep their deadline, which is truly sad. In the case that the deadline is not reached, as a maker one should partial "refund" or add incentive to the buyer as they wait. Let's say Free joint protectors, or a Moori tip upgrade and "I am truely sorry for the delay". But a maker MUST keep a deadline. Things do happen, but deadline is deadline, no excuses.

3. Ship item out with Tracking + Insurance. The SELLER should be responsible for dealing with the shipping company. It is the SELLER that chose the shipping company, paid the shipping company, has the receipt, and etc. It is wrong for the seller to make the buyer responsible.

4. When it comes to feedback, you should take care of the situation before 1 negative is left. You have to contact the buyer, keep the updated. YOU ARE taken their money, AND you are providing a service. This means making a cue/case and the whole process of getting it out to the buyer. This means from Emailing, callling, sending tracking #.

5. When I send tracking #, I scan the USPS receipt and the Tracking confirmation and insurance stub, and email that to the buyer. If you've bought items from me, I don't just send the number, I send a copy of all the receipts. That way, I have written and visual proof.

6. Learn more about liability and treat your business as if you're a lawyer. AZB's members would be the Jury, so have all your documents and contracts we can see, if you have all the evidences, you will not be convicted, let alone be a suspect, or a person of interest.

7. Sometimes we type things but we as humans make mistakes. We have to straighten it out before money is exchanged. If you took money and not sent a cue, a partial refund should be given. You can't expenct to keep 1/2 the money without anything sent. You should have in the disclaimer "If failure to pay the full amount, I will keep xx% percent or the "deposit"

You should have at least a 1 page disclaimer if you want to run a successful business.

"Dave Sutton cues"

1. 50% deposit required.
2. Cue will be sent via USPS priority, tracking, insured.
3. Full payment 100% must be received before the cue(s) can be sent out NO EXCEPTIONS.
4. Failure to pay the 100% will result in me keeping xx% as "restocking fee"
5. There is a deadline set, and in a rare case that I don't make it, I will reimburse the deposit or partial refund depending on the case.

ETC.

Please read and email me back and state that "I John Smith, have read and agreed with the terms and conditions of "Dave Sutton Cue's" disclaimer.

Thank you,

Dave Sutton

:thumbup:
 
I have no problem posting in a positive manner. However it's people like you that are only adding fuel to the fire trying to start trouble. I won't let you bother me.

I hope you never see any of my work. obv another azer that isn't computer savy enought to utilize the "search" function.
 
Hey Dave,

Is that your Challenger R/T you have pictured in your avatar? Those are nice! How much is one of those running these days?
 
Dave made a few mistakes and he sees the importance and the consequences. I don't think Dave really wants more issues. Regardless of what happened, it's Christmas time, and it's going to be a new year. Old mistakes will go away with time. If Dave gets 100 + next year, these few negatives will slowly be history.

People, let's not take everything literal. Dave by now knows. He told his side of the story, and it seemed the issue was "Miscommunication" and what Dave said, and what his customer expected were not in agreement.

So Dave, you need to work on the terminology and procedure and "contractual language" from now on, so customers know exactly what to expect. Have all the bases covered. If you cannot hold your own words for any reason, you offer them a way to settle. If they can't pay all, you have a document stating the consequences, if you can't make the cue or make it in time for delivery by 1 day or 1 month or 1 year, you inscribe in the contract that they will be 100% refunded, or it's up to them what they want. ETC.

Customers are very important, sometimes you have to lose to win.

If you want me to write you a disclaimer I can do it for you. ~ At a small fee. =)
 
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lenoxmjs said:
You keep saying you have over 100 done deals here on az . Why doesn't your I trader reflect that? Funny how you have only 38 with several duplicates from the addresses mr Wilson spoke of . Kinda makes you go hmmmmm.
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Man some of you guys really aren't too smart are you. I have 1 duplicate from a name that Wilson mentions. 1 not multiple. Usually multiple means more then one.

And any body that knows me personally knows exactly who he is. I can give you a laundry list of dealers that has delt with THEBIGSHOW on top of me making him 5 cues.

So get out your abacus and recount and get back to me.

Do you have an itrader for every deal you've completed. I sure don't. I also have sold 4 cues to John Marshall guess how many itraders that gets me. 1 not multiple. Remember we went over this previously.

That's not to mention deals done pre itrader. Guess they don't count either.

Lmao. I love carving chumps like you up. You have no clue
 
Duce thank you for your time and well thought out posts.

Thank you for being objective and try to remedy the situation instead of adding fuel to the fire.
 
larrynj1 said:
dave, didn't you say about a dozen posts ago that would be your last post on this thread? try keeping track of what you say and stick to it. and the phony trading comments is really sinking to a new low.

i'm still waiting to see some of your work, why not post some pics while you're shooting yourself in the other foot? would you please add me to that strange list you mentioned earlier?

to those quoting the wise words of others - how about -

where there's smoke ,there's fire.

my dad (rip) always told me that a liar is always a thief as well.
Click to expand...

smoke does not always mean a fire, there is also something called a smoke screen.....
 
pletho said:
smoke does not always mean a fire, there is also something called a smoke screen.....
Click to expand...

Steve. Thank you very much for your support and kind words. But don't get yourself wrapped up in their nonsense. They love to keep going. They sit back and giggle and continue to mash the most ridiculous posts into the keyboard just for kicks. If he really wanted to see my work I have had many cues for sale. He lived within an hour from me. We could have meant in person and he would have been happy. As a matter of fact. I'm pretty sure i turned him down on a build before. Maybe he is still bitter from that. Who knows.
 
I've been on this forum for 5 years. I am absolutely amazed that Dave Sutton is allowed on here anymore. It seems that he is about 1 person away from dealing with the wrong person. I hope you guys get your money and/or cues/shafts back.
 
While I have never had any past dealings with you, but I have been following this train wreck for some time. You have had ample time to make things right with these guys. When someone pays you for a product and/or service, that money is never yours until you fulfill your side of the bargain, period. Having people inflate your itrader rating certainly doesn't reflect well on you, but then again, after reading some of your responses, I'm not surprised it happened either...

After seeing how you have chosen to handle these transactions, I can not have any dealings with you and I will not recommend your products to anyone. You have unnecessarily stained your brand name with your foolish antics. Not bashing, mind you, just sharing a personal observation...

I hope you find a way to make good on your past/pending deals and work hard to return your name to good standings within the billiard community.
 
rugerfan said:
While I have never had any past dealings with you, but I have been following this train wreck for some time. You have had ample time to make things right with these guys. When someone pays you for a product and/or service, that money is never yours until you fulfill your side of the bargain, period. Having people inflate your itrader rating certainly doesn't reflect well on you, but then again, after reading some of your responses, I'm not surprised it happened either...

After seeing how you have chosen to handle these transactions, I can not have any dealings with you and I will not recommend your products to anyone. You have unnecessarily stained your brand name with your foolish antics. Not bashing, mind you, just sharing a personal observation...

I hope you find a way to make good on your past/pending deals and work hard to return your name to good standings within the billiard community.
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Just for the record. In your opinion of course how many private messages or posts is the right amount to send a guy to try to send him his merchandise?? 5 isn't enough. 10 would be better? Tell me a number.

And before you open your mouth. Search thru my I trader and point out to me where it is inflated by anyone.

For someone following the "story" you seem to have very very limited information.

Here's a lesson. If you send me 3 positive I traders right now. My numbe only goes up 1 number.

So. My number right now is 38. I have 38 itrader. Now go thru my itrader and count. I have 60 transactions.

Educate yourself before you post sir.
 
Thanks for the lesson Dave. You have educated myself and a lot of other people more then you'll ever realize...
 
rugerfan said:
Thanks for the lesson Dave. You have educated myself and a lot of other people more then you'll ever realize...
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Don't dodge the question. People like you feel the need to throw your hat in the ring when you have nothing to do with the situation. I broke down your post and made 2 challenges. Prove me wrong. Don't just fade away. You felt the need to stand up and talk. Now let's hear it. answer my 2 questions.

1 how long does it take to respond to multiple PMs and posts and threads. I asked for Rogers address in this thread also and he has once again posted and YET to give it to me for his refund. It didn't take you. 4-5 months to respond to my post. Why does it him

2. Search my itrader and post the names you see multiple times.

These are challenges directly resulting from your post.

If you prove me wrong. I will have Rogers check in the mail tomorrow. I will even add 100$!!!!!!
 
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