BHE and FHE English

[jasonlaus]

With an off-center hit, while the tip is in contact with the CB, the CB starts to move forward and turn. The ball turn pushes the tip away sideways causing the end mass of the shaft to move. Mass doesn’t like to move, so it pushes back during contact (because for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction). That’s why the CB deflects (squirts) off line.
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Backhand english (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE) are aim-and-pivot methods used to adjust one’s aim for squirt and swerve (AKA “cue ball deflection”).
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@jasonlaus
you have to get squirt when you hit the cue ball off vertical axis
bhe and fhe only help to get the cue ball to go where you want it to with a vertical axis hit
for example
if right hand english would make the cue ball miss the target by 2 inches because of squirt
bhe/fhe help get you to aim that 2 inch difference so you hit the target
the above is from dr dave with some parts bolded and larger font for emphasis by me

All I know is if I hit a ball with front or back it does not travel off the path, if use any other English it will travel off line and then back on.

I have demonstrated this to quite a few people

 

[dr_dave]

With an off-center hit, while the tip is in contact with the CB, the CB starts to move forward and turn. The ball turn pushes the tip away sideways causing the end mass of the shaft to move. Mass doesn’t like to move, so it pushes back during contact (because for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction). That’s why the CB deflects (squirts) off line.
.....................................
Backhand english (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE) are aim-and-pivot methods used to adjust one’s aim for squirt and swerve (AKA “cue ball deflection”).
..........................................

Those quotes look familiar. I wish I knew where they came from so I could get more information and see demonstrations.

For those interested, see:

what causes squirt?

back-hand (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE)
​

Also, this new video might be of interest. It demonstrates everything:

 

[sparkle84]

Bizarre how?

Bizarre as in, more accurately, just plain everyday wrong. Pool 101.

 

[I love pool]

I went to sleep and woke up ready to rebut Jasonlaus points but I think you all got this.

Can someone tell me what this thread was originally about? I don’t even know anymore.

 

[jasonlaus]

I went to sleep and woke up ready to rebut Jasonlaus points but I think you all got this.

Can someone tell me what this thread was originally about? I don’t even know anymore.

About all of you being wrong

 

[I love pool]

About all of you being wrong.

 

[sparkle84]

I went to sleep and woke up ready to rebut Jasonlaus points but I think you all got this.

Can someone tell me what this thread was originally about? I don’t even know anymore.

Many posts on here about different topics are simply opinions. Lot of gray areas which can be debated.
It's the one's like this which are frustrating. When someone doesn't have knowledge of a subject (laws that govern the behavior of the balls) it's virtually impossible to have any meaningful discussion with them.

 

[I love pool]

He’s right. Sort of. There’s a tautology here. It doesn’t deflect because of the pivot. But we pivot because it deflects.

I guess he is saying that effectively it is staying on the line of aim because of the bhe/fhe.

So we are arguing that yes of course it deflects that’s why we pivot. And we a right in that thinking.

He says because he pivots he experiences no deflection (from the line of aim). So in that very constrained way of describing the phenomenon he is right.

That is as agreeable as I can be. Have a good Sunday everybody.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

All I know is if I hit a ball with front or back it does not travel off the path

It also doesn't travel where your cue is pointed - that's squirt.

Now you know two things.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

That’s why
@jasonlaus

the above is from dr dave with some parts bolded and larger font for emphasis by me

@dr_dave
i couldnt get the whole post in to show you where i quoted you
but if you check post #60 you will see i do quote towards the end of the post
i hope you saw that i did quote you

 

[bbb]

Those quotes look familiar. I wish I knew where they came from so I could get more information and see demonstrations.

For those interested, see:

what causes squirt?

back-hand (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE)
​

Also, this new video might be of interest. It demonstrates everything:

@dr_dave
i couldnt get the whole post in to show you where i quoted you
but if you check post #60 you will see i do creit you towards the end of the post
i hope you saw that i did quote/credit you

 

[jasonlaus]

If I want the cueball to travel from head spot to foot spot without rolling off that line i use front or backhand english. The cueball will never leave a line drawn between the 2 spots

Pretend there is a spot on both ends of the table

 

[bbb]

If I want the cueball to travel from head spot to foot spot without rolling off that line i use front or backhand english. The cueball will never leave a line drawn between the 2 spots

Pretend there is a spot on both ends of the table

can you do it with no english?
if so
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? .........yes or no
when you do it with front or back hand english
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? ....yes or no

 

[jasonlaus]

can you do it with no english?
if so
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? .........yes or no
when you do it with front or back hand english
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? ....yes or no

How could my tip be pointing at the spot if I'm using front or back English?

 

[jasonlaus]

can you do it with no english?
if so
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? .........yes or no
when you do it with front or back hand english
where is your tip pointing?
at the spot? ....yes or no

You're seriously asking if I can shoot the cueball in a straight line from spot to spot?

 

[bbb]

You're seriously asking if I can shoot the cueball in a straight line from spot to spot?

more than that
i assume the answer would be yes
i was curious to the other question
when you are succesful
where does your tip point when using no english vs when you do use english
even more interesting to me would be the extra detail of where does your tip point when using front hand english and back hand english and no english

 

[jasonlaus]

more than that
i assume the answer would be yes
i was curious to the other question
when you are succesful
where does your tip point when using no english vs when you do use english
even more interesting to me would be the extra detail of where does your tip point when using front hand english and back hand english and no english

Obviously anybody hitting a ball in a straight line with no english HAS to hit the ball in the center directly at the spot.

I think I'm done if these are the questions you're asking. You clearly know nothing about the game

I have broke and run 7 racks in a row 3 different times.

 

[bbb]

Obviously anybody hitting a ball in a straight line with no english HAS to hit the ball in the center directly at the spot.

I think I'm done if these are the questions you're asking. You clearly know nothing about the game

I have broke and run 7 racks in a row 3 different times.

Well, let me tell you where I was going with my questions
I think you will find that when you use English your tip is not pointing at The Spot like it would be with no English
That should tell you that you’re starting in the direction that’s not towards The Spot. It goes there because of the deflection which is equal to the amount away from the spot you’re pointing your tip with English.
If you can’t understand that, that’s your problem not mine

 

[jasonlaus]

more than that
i assume the answer would be yes
i was curious to the other question
when you are succesful
where does your tip point when using no english vs when you do use english
even more interesting to me would be the extra detail of where does your tip point when using front hand english and back hand english and no english

And obviously my tip is NOT pointing at the spot when I use either english, it does not stop the ball from going directly over the spot though.

I'm starting to think some of you have no idea what front or backhand english is

 

[jasonlaus]

Well, let me tell you where I was going with my questions
I think you will find that when you use English your tip is not pointing at The Spot like it would be with no English
That should tell you that you’re starting in the direction that’s not towards The Spot. It goes there because of the deflection which is equal to the amount away from the spot you’re pointing your tip with English.
If you can’t understand that, that’s your problem not mine

NO, if you're using front or back you start by aiming directly at the spot then pivot to the english you want.