Big Score!

nfty9er

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But as usual not in pool. Poker keeps taking its toll on pool and pool players.

Results from June 13, pot limit hold'em WSOP tournament in Las Vegas.

Jay Helfert(prior proprietor of Hollywood Park Billiards)and player.
7th place for $41,880

Congratulations and good luck in the big WSOP tournament which I am sure you will use the winnings to enter if you have not already qualified. Bet you never scored that much in a pool match.
 
Yup, and Kirk Kerkorian made $300,000,000 in about four days. Was it shooting pool? No, actually it was on General Motors stock.

Would have been tough to make a score like that shooting pool, even against the world's biggest fish. Even at $5000 a set, Kirk would have had to win the first 60,000 sets, with opponent never quitting, for a comparable score. Playing ten sets a day seven days a week, this would take about seventeen years.

Kirk's probably better off as an investor.
 
Yes

sjm said:
Yup, and Kirk Kerkorian made $300,000,000 in about four days. Was it shooting pool? No, actually it was on General Motors stock.

Would have been tough to make a score like that shooting pool, even against the world's biggest fish. Even at $5000 a set, Kirk would have had to win the first 60,000 sets, with opponent never quitting, for a comparable score. Playing ten sets a day seven days a week, this would take about seventeen years.

Kirk's probably better off as an investor.

But he had 1.4 billiion to invest. He started in Vegas and played craps. He was a gambler. It takes money to make money at that level. He quit gambling and bought property in Vegas.
Were you making a point? You are comparing apples and oranges.
 
nfty9er said:
But he had 1.4 billiion to invest. He started in Vegas and played craps. He was a gambler. It takes money to make money at that level. He quit gambling and bought property in Vegas.
Were you making a point? You are comparing apples and oranges.

Sorry, Nifty, I was just being frivolous, but ultimately agreeing with your contention that the biggest scores don't seem to come in pool.

Hope you're well.
 
sjm said:
Sorry, Nifty, I was just being frivolous, but ultimately agreeing with your contention that the biggest scores don't seem to come in pool.

Hope you're well.


Of course not and the reasons are straightforward. Business/investment isn't a zero sum game. Kerkorian/Buffet/Gates, etc... can make billions and thereby enrich others. They create value for many. Gambling doesn't create anything, it simply transfers money from one person to another. The only value is some entertainment value. The winning poker player or pool player depends on players who are worse to lose money. Thus, they must feel like they have a chance to win something or are getting some entertainment out of it. Casinos are the most successful gamblers because they have many players without a chance to win in the long run step up and play at a disadvantage. In return, the casino offers the promise of a big payoff to the lucky gambler and a nice entertainment experience. The poker player can hide in the fog of ignorance or arrogance of the opponent. People often don't realize how bad they are at poker. They also have mystical beliefs about luck. The poker player can then become like the casino and have bad players play at a disadvantage because of their mistaken perceptions and limited abilities. The pool player has less to offer. Pool balls are in the open. Results are not nearly so random. The game depends on observable skill, notwithstanding the short-term hustle which can hide skill for a while.

Therefore, the gambler who decides to match up with the player eventually realizes he cannot win, and realizes it in a different way that in other forms of gambling. A craps player knows at some level he is playing at a disadvantage. However, the disadvantage is smaller which allows for huge winning streaks. He can make a million or two or more catching a mother of a hot streak. There is no such situation in pool. The gambler has to hand over the money to a person directly. He knows the other player can play better. His ego gets involved so as to make him pull up at some point, and not go off for all his bankroll as he might in a casino. Sure there are exceptions. But who is going to risk significant money at pool when there is no corresponding big pay off. Putting 10K in play on a craps table you could win huge. Putting 10K in play against a pool player maybe you win 20K. And you have to play well, not just step up and put money down. So in the end the big money pool matches are challenge matches between highly skilled players. The edge isn't there. So just like poker players who end up only playing in big, tough games, the pool player can end up broke pretty fast. Rank suckers will not step up and play Efren without a spot. But people do just that when they play poker or gamble in a casino. So poker players and casinos do better than a good pool player.

Don't expect a big score from pool. It is much better to do other things for money. Play the game for the fun of it and gamble some if it makes it more fun. Poker is pointless without money, pool is not. But pool will never be as big a gambling game. Ever.
 
pool

JPB said:
Of course not and the reasons are straightforward. Business/investment isn't a zero sum game. Kerkorian/Buffet/Gates, etc... can make billions and thereby enrich others. They create value for many. Gambling doesn't create anything, it simply transfers money from one person to another. The only value is some entertainment value. The winning poker player or pool player depends on players who are worse to lose money. Thus, they must feel like they have a chance to win something or are getting some entertainment out of it. Casinos are the most successful gamblers because they have many players without a chance to win in the long run step up and play at a disadvantage. In return, the casino offers the promise of a big payoff to the lucky gambler and a nice entertainment experience. The poker player can hide in the fog of ignorance or arrogance of the opponent. People often don't realize how bad they are at poker. They also have mystical beliefs about luck. The poker player can then become like the casino and have bad players play at a disadvantage because of their mistaken perceptions and limited abilities. The pool player has less to offer. Pool balls are in the open. Results are not nearly so random. The game depends on observable skill, notwithstanding the short-term hustle which can hide skill for a while.

Therefore, the gambler who decides to match up with the player eventually realizes he cannot win, and realizes it in a different way that in other forms of gambling. A craps player knows at some level he is playing at a disadvantage. However, the disadvantage is smaller which allows for huge winning streaks. He can make a million or two or more catching a mother of a hot streak. There is no such situation in pool. The gambler has to hand over the money to a person directly. He knows the other player can play better. His ego gets involved so as to make him pull up at some point, and not go off for all his bankroll as he might in a casino. Sure there are exceptions. But who is going to risk significant money at pool when there is no corresponding big pay off. Putting 10K in play on a craps table you could win huge. Putting 10K in play against a pool player maybe you win 20K. And you have to play well, not just step up and put money down. So in the end the big money pool matches are challenge matches between highly skilled players. The edge isn't there. So just like poker players who end up only playing in big, tough games, the pool player can end up broke pretty fast. Rank suckers will not step up and play Efren without a spot. But people do just that when they play poker or gamble in a casino. So poker players and casinos do better than a good pool player.

Don't expect a big score from pool. It is much better to do other things for money. Play the game for the fun of it and gamble some if it makes it more fun. Poker is pointless without money, pool is not. But pool will never be as big a gambling game. Ever.

I am having a tough time finding postings where folks are taking about pool. Are there any hereabout?

Guy
 
nfty9er said:
But as usual not in pool. Poker keeps taking its toll on pool and pool players.

Results from June 13, pot limit hold'em WSOP tournament in Las Vegas.

Jay Helfert(prior proprietor of Hollywood Park Billiards)and player.
7th place for $41,880

Congratulations and good luck in the big WSOP tournament which I am sure you will use the winnings to enter if you have not already qualified. Bet you never scored that much in a pool match.

Perhaps Jay belongs in poker and not pool. Jay's Billiards was the worst poolhall I've ever played at, good riddance to that place.
 
It wasn't THAT bad. There were at least 3 tables that played well, IMHO. What was disappointing is that for an owner who has been around pool for as long as Jay, most of the tables were poorly set up, had crappy mixed ball sets, and cheap cloth.

Martin

LastTwo said:
Perhaps Jay belongs in poker and not pool. Jay's Billiards was the worst poolhall I've ever played at, good riddance to that place.
 
jazznpool said:
It wasn't THAT bad. There were at least 3 tables that played well, IMHO. What was disappointing is that for an owner who has been around pool for as long as Jay, most of the tables were poorly set up, had crappy mixed ball sets, and cheap cloth.

Martin

Are you sure? I only played on 5 or 6 different tables, but nearly everyone at the tournament was complaining about their own table. They didn't even clean the tables there lol. Oh, and how about when Tony Chohan matched up with another player for about a grand, and Jay decided it was ok to put a group of drunk ball bangers RIGHT next to their table, when there was about 10 free tables on the other side of the poolhall? LOL everyone got a good laugh out of that, except for Tony. Worst poolhall ever IMO.
 
LastTwo said:
Jay decided it was ok to put a group of drunk ball bangers RIGHT next to their table, when there was about 10 free tables on the other side of the poolhall?

Hey, those balls were on top. Not his fault!
 
guygrandmont said:
I am having a tough time finding postings where folks are taking about pool. Are there any hereabout?

Guy

Since you're apparently new here, you may not realize it, but JPB's post was one of the best posts ABOUT POOL that you'll ever read on this board. Nice job, JPB.

Pool isn't just about potting balls...and this board gets into (almost) everything that concerns pool, on or off the table.

Enjoy,

Jeff Livingston
 
JPB said:
Of course not and the reasons are straightforward. Business/investment isn't a zero sum game. Kerkorian/Buffet/Gates, etc... can make billions and thereby enrich others. They create value for many. Gambling doesn't create anything, it simply transfers money from one person to another. The only value is some entertainment value. The winning poker player or pool player depends on players who are worse to lose money. Thus, they must feel like they have a chance to win something or are getting some entertainment out of it. Casinos are the most successful gamblers because they have many players without a chance to win in the long run step up and play at a disadvantage. In return, the casino offers the promise of a big payoff to the lucky gambler and a nice entertainment experience. The poker player can hide in the fog of ignorance or arrogance of the opponent. People often don't realize how bad they are at poker. They also have mystical beliefs about luck. The poker player can then become like the casino and have bad players play at a disadvantage because of their mistaken perceptions and limited abilities. The pool player has less to offer. Pool balls are in the open. Results are not nearly so random. The game depends on observable skill, notwithstanding the short-term hustle which can hide skill for a while.

Therefore, the gambler who decides to match up with the player eventually realizes he cannot win, and realizes it in a different way that in other forms of gambling. A craps player knows at some level he is playing at a disadvantage. However, the disadvantage is smaller which allows for huge winning streaks. He can make a million or two or more catching a mother of a hot streak. There is no such situation in pool. The gambler has to hand over the money to a person directly. He knows the other player can play better. His ego gets involved so as to make him pull up at some point, and not go off for all his bankroll as he might in a casino. Sure there are exceptions. But who is going to risk significant money at pool when there is no corresponding big pay off. Putting 10K in play on a craps table you could win huge. Putting 10K in play against a pool player maybe you win 20K. And you have to play well, not just step up and put money down. So in the end the big money pool matches are challenge matches between highly skilled players. The edge isn't there. So just like poker players who end up only playing in big, tough games, the pool player can end up broke pretty fast. Rank suckers will not step up and play Efren without a spot. But people do just that when they play poker or gamble in a casino. So poker players and casinos do better than a good pool player.

Don't expect a big score from pool. It is much better to do other things for money. Play the game for the fun of it and gamble some if it makes it more fun. Poker is pointless without money, pool is not. But pool will never be as big a gambling game. Ever.

Great post !

Dave

PS, the word 'pool' appears in the above post 11 times, who says we don't take about pool :confused:
 
LastTwo said:
Are you sure? I only played on 5 or 6 different tables, but nearly everyone at the tournament was complaining about their own table. They didn't even clean the tables there lol. Oh, and how about when Tony Chohan matched up with another player for about a grand, and Jay decided it was ok to put a group of drunk ball bangers RIGHT next to their table, when there was about 10 free tables on the other side of the poolhall? LOL everyone got a good laugh out of that, except for Tony. Worst poolhall ever IMO.

There were actually 5 good tables with Simonis cloth that were level and played well. Unfortunately, only a few of these had a decent set of balls. The rest of the tables were kind of a joke, one rolled off so badly that my opponent sank the nine ball and the cueball did a huge curl to scratch. Another, if you shot the ball up the rail it would not go in (because the pocket was cut so crooked) no matter how well you hit it.

However, it wasn't even the worst poolhall for a big tournament in L.A., Underdog, who is a professional level player had a Pechauer tournament at his poolhall and the tables there made Jay's look perfect. I hit a straight back cross side shot on one of the tables and it hit wood on the rail, instead of rubber, and went cross corner LOL. All of the smart players realizing how bad the rails were started playing position without ever touching a rail and that was the only way to go. Sometimes you would hit a rail with speed and the cueball would stop dead. If I was Underdog or Jay I would have been way too embarrassed to hold big tournaments in these places.

Wayne
 
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