Billy Thorpe gone wild!

[skogstokig]

I understand this was not part of the tournament.
If the game wants the ability to sanction private action behavior, it better give them a better income.

for the game to give them a better income it needs to be marketable. catch 22..

 

[Biloxi Boy]

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10

Perhaps some sports are just not intended to produce millions for their top performers. Instead of the pool world putting its energy into worrying about why 20 or 30 players cannnot make a living from pool, we had best concern ourselves with saving the endangered foundation of our sport: POOL HALLS ARE FACING EXTINCTION. Just as an asteroid snuffed the dinosaurs, Covid 19 may spell the end of poolhalls.

Hoax or no hoax, the financial fallout of Covid 19 is real, and our pool halls are dying.

 

[terpdad]

for the game to give them a better income it needs to be marketable. catch 22..

But for a lot of people, especially in sports like pool which have an older fan base, bad behavior decreases marketability. Bowling tried to increase its popularity by showcasing their tour members acting like fools & it failed spectacularly. Other factors at play, different sport, etc. but a similar situation.

 

[The_JV]

for the game to give them a better income it needs to be marketable. catch 22..

But for a lot of people, especially in sports like pool which have an older fan base, bad behavior decreases marketability. Bowling tried to increase its popularity by showcasing their tour members acting like fools & it failed spectacularly. Other factors at play, different sport, etc. but a similar situation.

I think that's the point skogs was trying to make.

People are claiming that players act the way they do because their isn't any good money to be had in tournaments. (Which is a weird stance, as I don't think being upset about what I earn gives me the right to berate or attack a co-worker.)

Others are saying that the money isn't there because some of the players continue to give pool a negative image.

One has to give before the other. Investors have other choices, players can opt to sell used cars.

It's a shame Billy has made this example of himself. It really could have been anyone in that situation. Regardless... I think the "game" has an opportunity at Billy's expense to send a message. Being banned for a year from some low teir tournament won't carry any weight with the masses or potential investors. Even if someone could, you can't fine the guy. It's not like Billy is earning millions a year. Penalize him something that I think most pros would want to opportunity to take part in. The Mosconi fits this bill....

I wish Billy the best, and hope that a real lesson has been learnt and will be taken to heart. This could potentially be the birth of another true professional.

 

[ShootingArts]

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10

Perhaps some sports are just not intended to produce millions for their top performers. Instead of the pool world putting its energy into worrying about why 20 or 30 players cannnot make a living from pool, we had best concern ourselves with saving the endangered foundation of our sport: POOL HALLS ARE FACING EXTINCTION. Just as an asteroid snuffed the dinosaurs, Covid 19 may spell the end of poolhalls.

Hoax or no hoax, the financial fallout of Covid 19 is real, and our pool halls are dying.

Most real pool halls that didn't make their primary income from something else were marginal operations before covid. These real small businesses aren't going to see government bailouts and just at a guess I think maybe 75% of them will fail. This goes for many another mom and pop type business too. The chains and superstores have been the death of many a small business and many a community. I think the fallout from covid and trying to defend from it are vastly going to accelerate this. The asteroid analogy is apt.

I don't think there is anything that we can control but I think we will be looking at a different world, a different America, in a year or two. Pretty sure I am not going to like it!

Hu

 

[chitownnorth]

Yes, lots of small businesses were failing before Covid struck in and around my area. Parts of Chicago were/are experiencing many empty storefronts and it seemed to be like that for several years. I moved about an hour and a half away 7 years ago to a more country area. Even then, there was an astonishing amount of vacancies in strip malls that have never been fulfilled.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Sadly, failed mom and pops and empty storefronts seem to be the story repeated over and over across the country. We had a couple small gun stores here -- gone. Hardware stores, forget it. Warnings were sounded as Walmart just began to roll, but they were ignored -- hell, who needs small businesses when we can get our groceries and ammunition under the same roof.

Hu got it right " . . . a different world, a different America, in a year or two. Pretty sure I am not going to like it!" I spent many years observing "if you live too long, you will wake up in an alien land". I guess its my turn.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

I feel like I'm taking to someone in Kindergarten. There is not now or ever an organization of TD'ers. Everyone pretty much acts on their own, and we aren't all in attendance at every event to see what other TD's are doing. I did take care of the events I was responsible for and occasionally had issues with other co-directors who espoused a different line about Earl. I will not name names on here, but let's say we were not all in agreement on how to deal with him, and yes some TD's pretty much left him alone to make a mess of things. THEY thought he was entertaining. I did not! I will only add this. There was no other TD who tried to stop me from corralling him. I wouldn't let them. They just left that up to me and sat back and watched the show. I did have issues with a couple of them and they know who they are. That said there were other high profile TD's who did try to reign Earl in using different methods to do so, some more effective than others. He was a handful for just about everyone who had that responsibility, including my friend Michaela Tabb. I think she and I took the firmest approach in dealing with him.

Earl definitely had (and has) mental issues and I was never paid to be his personal psychiatrist, or am I qualified for that position. I was able to find a common ground which he understood though, and a line he couldn't cross. He was able to comprehend that if he crossed that line he would be penalized, and I believe that if you asked him today he would tell you he respected me for that.

It’s ok, your me me me attitude is quite on display here. If the one guy who could get Earl to not explode during his events couldn’t get that concept through to others that Earl’s negativity was harmful to the sport through. Then I don’t know how to explain it any differently that won’t make it feel like you’re being attacked here. A stupid person would have never been able to run events. But a smart man would have known when to use his position to better influence others, and not become a glorified babysitter.

 

[ShootingArts]

Sadly, failed mom and pops and empty storefronts seem to be the story repeated over and over across the country. We had a couple small gun stores here -- gone. Hardware stores, forget it. Warnings were sounded as Walmart just began to roll, but they were ignored -- hell, who needs small businesses when we can get our groceries and ammunition under the same roof.

Hu got it right " . . . a different world, a different America, in a year or two. Pretty sure I am not going to like it!" I spent many years observing "if you live too long, you will wake up in an alien land". I guess its my turn.

I thought these things would be happening in the time of my children or my children's children. Things are accelerating so fast that most of my gloom and doom prophesies are here or right around the corner. I'm in a piece of rural America and ain't budging if I can help it!

It’s ok, your me me me attitude is quite on display here. If the one guy who could get Earl to not explode during his events couldn’t get that concept through to others that Earl’s negativity was harmful to the sport through. Then I don’t know how to explain it any differently that won’t make it feel like you’re being attacked here. A stupid person would have never been able to run events. But a smart man would have known when to use his position to better influence others, and not become a glorified babysitter.

It ain't bragging if you can do it, ain't bragging if you have done it either! Stu, SJM, is maybe the finest poster on AZB. When he gives Jay respect, Jay has earned it. As he has pointed out, Jay has been involved in pool on every level and then some when you consider he is also an outstanding pool author. Monday morning quarterbacking carries less than a thumbnail's weight, maybe the dirt under a thumbnail. The person on the scene making the decisions has to be given more credence than someone coming along many years later. What would you have done if you were running the events? Neither you or the rest of us will ever know, you weren't there, you weren't running the events.

A whole lot easier to sit on the side and knock than it is to get in the middle of things and do. If you really wanted to you could try your hand at doing. Much of Jay's career as a TD came to him because people had seen his past successes. All you have to do is run some events and show what a great job you can do, the world will beat a path to your door! On the other hand it takes some real skills to put on a quality event, odds are real good that you will land on your posterior, hard!

Hu

 

[dardusm]

I wasn't going to honor you with a response until now. I may not be the smartest guy in the room because that is certainly you. But in my role as TD I felt responsible for the conduct of the event, including the behavior of the players. How I handled each situation was wholly dependent on what I thought would work best at the moment. All in all I'm satisfied with the job I did in running over 200 pool tournaments. Not perfect by any means but they all went off for the most part without a hitch from start to finish. I preferred that people didn't see what went on behind the scenes to make it look like the event ran smooth as silk, because they never did, and I always had to put out a few fires along the way. Earl Strickland was probably the single most difficult player I had to deal with over a period of more than three decades. Not the only one, but most certainly the most flagrant offender of whatever code of conduct was in place. Every time he played a match I kept a close watch over him. I had to! And he knew I was watching him too. He also knew when I wasn't there and he could get away with a lot of stuff that wouldn't fly with me.

In this particular situation, the match with Landon, Earl had gone on record that he was going to demolish this kid and put him in his place. The match was played on the BigFoot table in a location near the tournament desk, but we had other matches going on at the same time that somewhat blocked my view. There was a large crowd around the table to watch this match, further blocking me from seeing what was going on. Early in the match, after only two or three games, Landon's father Stan came to me and said Earl was talking to Landon while he was at the table shooting. I told him I would put a stop to that and waited for the next game to begin, and quietly moved closer to the table. Sure enough, when Landon got to the table Earl started talking shit about him and how he was playing. I stepped in and stopped the match. That's when I laid down the law to Earl, "If you want to talk while you're at the table, okay. But when Landon is at the table I don't want to hear your voice." Earl of course objected, saying he wasn't bothering Landon (which may be true. The kid was solid!). Knowing that I would have to come back to the table again and again I decided to pull up a chair and watch the match from there. I could see the other tables as well from that position.

Earl got the message! He started to talk a couple of times and then he looked at me and shut up. He knew I would penalize him games on the wire, which I had done before. Landon went on to put the worst beating on Earl I had ever seen. He made him eat his words! Stan Shuffett thanked me afterward for what I had done. He knew there would have been more problems without me there watching.

Maybe you would have handled this differently, but Earl was a special case. The fans wanted to see him play, so I always preferred not to forfeit him like I had done once before at the U.S. Open, when he used profanity over and over again, including directing it at me. I wanted this match to happen because I knew how much interest there was in seeing these two go at it. Call it what you want, but I call it making the event happen and giving the fans what they paid for. I prefer to stop a train wreck before it takes place. Kapeche

I'm giving Jay props on this. I went and played in the 2010 US Open as a bucket list item. I was in the stands watching an Earl match. Earl kept turning around and interacting with the fans in the stands. Of course the crowd egged Earl on and it was a constant back and forth while his opponent was at the table. Earl couldn't help himself. Jay as the TD came over several times to warn Earl as it was a distraction to his opponent and quite frankly to himself. Finally, Jay came over and told Earl "If you turn your head around one more time, you forfeit the match." Earl never said another word and finished the match.

 

[dardusm]

Billy made a mistake that happened to be caught on stream. I've personally witnessed a few times involving a some pretty well known players that if recorded would have been this damaging and even worse. The issue is that today, everyone has a video camera in their pocket and this was being streamed. If you are an aspiring professional no matter what sport, you will have immense scrutiny. If you have sponsors, your conduct will reflect them as well as yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if this incident doesn't cost Billy financially as it will possibly affect current and future opportunities. Hopefully, he can learn and move on but you have to hold yourself to a higher standard if you want to market yourself.

 

[CLAUD]

Sad display by yet another person who won't /can't control his alcohol intake. If he continues he will ultimately pay a heavy price of one nature or another. He will probably never see it coming.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Okay, okay, enough. Jay is a nice, smart, capable man (just as I had him figured before reading this thread) as well as being one of a few TDs, maybe "the only", who controlled Strickland.

On the other hand, Strickland is still Strickland, and the next one is just around the corner. What if every player started acting in such a manner? Forewarned ahould be forearmed, so how should bad behavior be addressed from here forward? Should it be eliminated at the outset, or should it be tolerated and navigated around? Wasn't there a poker player whose conduct used to be comparable to Strickland's? Is he still carrying on? If not, what happened?

 

[Black-Balled]

I'm thinking that 800k count includes the Cincinnati area.

Thanks for getting the numbers right as always.

And I know you like right numbers.

 

[Bic D]

Where I used to work, if 2 guys had a serious beef with one another AND it go to my attention...I would drive them both to the firing range and hand them a set of 12oz boxing gloves each and tell them to call me when it was over. I never had to know the winner or loser although sometimes it was apparent but one thing was certain....the beef was over.

Now this was back in the day before snowflakes were born and you didn't have to worry about liability too much. It's a shame these boys couldn't have just stepped out back, away from a camera, handled business and returned to the game.

 

[SBC]

Without a penalty for poor behavior during a match

players are rewarded for acting out because their opponent misses.

I doubt this issue will be addressed to the level fans are happy with.

players are punished for taking the higher ground. Look at Jayson Shaw Vs Earl. Earl called the two ball and it was on film. But Jayson's complaints fell on deaf ears. Earl went on to win the match.

John Leyman officiated that one. I would say that is a tough call to make in a live situation.

Pretty sure Jason chucked balls all over the room and went apeshit....Earl got a gold star for keeping his cool.

I'd bet Earl could whoop a bunch of these young bucks in the ring too.

 

[TATE]

Looks to me like Billy went from drinking Wild Turkey to becoming the Wild Turkey.

Sad to see anybody disrespect Jay Helfert. He's brought so much to AZ Billiards and the game of pool. Jay for the Hall of Fame!

 

[SBC]

I think preventing him from playing in the next MC would go a long ways. Not a permanent ban but a one year ban. As a "professional" he needs to hold himself to a higher power or someone else should.

Let's invite Mike Dechaine back...he gets along with everyone.

 

[ribdoner]

And I know you like right numbers.

LOL

 

[Chili Palmer]

Okay, okay, enough. Jay is a nice, smart, capable man (just as I had him figured before reading this thread) as well as being one of a few TDs, maybe "the only", who controlled Strickland.

On the other hand, Strickland is still Strickland, and the next one is just around the corner. What if every player started acting in such a manner? Forewarned ahould be forearmed, so how should bad benavior be addressed from here forward? Should it be eliminated at the outset, or should it be tolerated and navigated around? Wasn't there a poker player whose conduct used to be comparable to Strickland's? Is he still carrying on? If not, what happened?

Phil is the Earl of poker, he's not the Billy Thorpe of poker, he doesn't go around drunk and verbally, and apparently physically, attacking people. And just like pool, there are people in the poker world who don't like Phil either, but I'm sure you knew that.