Blackjack's Buzzkill

[daytonajoe]

Great Bed Partner

For chrisst sake this guy is a scam artist that is now trying his scam on a new field.


Look at this for more about the so called savior of pool
http://www.skepdic.com/trudeau.html

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Can anyone entertain me for a moment and explain the pros and cons that will affect me ( someone NOT making their living at pool ).........What does the IPT offer or take from the fans, the hobby?

The Pro's can ( and always have ) look out for themselves.

 

[JAM]

Can anyone entertain me for a moment and explain the pros and cons that will affect me ( someone NOT making their living at pool ).........What does the IPT offer or take from the fans, the hobby?

The Pro's can ( and always have ) look out for themselves.

For starters, Mr. Wilson, if the IPT is successful, pool players -- pros, aspiring players, veterans, and Newbies to the game -- will have something to shoot for. It's called a FUTURE.

I'm an old pool hound and experienced firsthand the on-the-road experience when I was young and dumb. The tournament setting did not offer players much in the way of STABILITY. Tin cups don't pay the bills, though many players kept coming back to be all that they can be. When you see world champions scraping by to make ends meet in the year 2005, it is quite sad, but a definite reality.

The pros must look out for themselves because the game/sport to date has projected a dismal future. Without naming names, I know some champion players who are struggling big time to get by. Some have left pool altogether, giving up in order to survive in life, and others who have stuck it out are sometimes ridiculed and criticized as if they're outcasts of society. Everybody loves a winner, and when a player is on top of the world, society embraces them in all their glory. Let a pool player get old or not cash in a few tournaments, and suddenly they are portrayed as jackoffs and ostricized for not getting a "real job" like the rest of American taxpayers. I have often wondered why the pool culture of 2005 is so often cruel to its own. Maybe this is why pool has never excelled.

I do not know what the IPT will offer to fans of the game/sport, but it may produce a change for the better in players like Keith McCready. He has been given a new lease on life. I have NEVER seen him practicing like he is today, hitting thousands of balls daily in the basement. Several nights ago at a local tournament, he performed better than I have ever seen him before in our years together, whipping in balls [swoosh!], slow-rolling them down table with precision, and slamming the back of the pockets with authority.

Right now, the IPT has given hope to some who may have previously lost their enthusiasm for the game/sport long ago. For this reason and this reason alone, I am grateful to the IPT. Look out, Orlando, because there most definitely is an Earthquake on the horizon, beginning in December.

If anything, we are all going to see some topnotch competition, and I'm going to be right there in the front lines watching history in the making. Some can't see the forest, but for the trees. I see a future.

JAM

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Jen,

I'm not being critical. I'm sitting on the fence and watching this transpire.

Near as I can tell, I have nothing to lose or gain ( other than entertainment ).

As far as skill, even when I was good enough.....I wasn't good enough....so I have a ZERO chance at the money.

Period.

The guys and gals with the talent will be duking it out in one format or another ad infinitum.

Even if it lasts only a year....people *might* just remember that time when.....

A million bones will bring ( hopefully ) a lot of the really skilled guys out of the woodwork. maybe it will set a precedence for higher ( much ) purses in tournaments.

Motivates them and I get to watch.

The way I see it, Chicken little, the sky isn't falling.



Pool culture.
Hmm.

We idolize hustlers and then don't want one running a tournament.

Sounds like the fish are scared.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I'm an old pool hound....
JAM

P.S.

Not in my book.

Keith is one lucky dude

 

[vagabond]

In 2000, I publicly asked Don Mackey to address the players, to address the industry, and to apologize for the mess that he had left us with. If anyone knows the exact whereabouts of Donald Mackey, tell him I am still waiting for his response. I think we are at least owed an explanation. Good money says that we never get one.



Blackjack David Sapolis

hi,
Don found Jesus and now he is a christian.Get hold of Sammy Jones ,Greenville,SC and he can give some info.

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)

The IPT could perhaps benefit greatly by synergizing itself with local, regional, state and national tours. Perhaps your efforts would be better spent offering them such possibilities.

This is a little longer post than I usually write, so please bear with me and consider this:

I'm glad you posted this, Blackjack. I was going to bring up this subject just before you left the main forum, but then you were gone, so...

BJ uses the term, "united" as in, the parts of the pool world should be "united." I'm not sure this is the correct concept for the pool world. Promoting unity can be fine, but for business models, I'm not so sure. I like what Colin said, above, "synergizing."

"Synergy" is different than "unity." Unity means all for one and one for all. I'm afraid that can't ever happen in the real pool world, even if everyone agrees to be "united." Why? Because each individual has his/her own reason for being involved in pool. If each person cannot satisfy his/her reason for being in pool, then s/he discontinues his/her unity, thus the problems happen that BJ mentioned, re Mackey, et al.

Synergy means that each participant in the pool world gains more by being a partner, if you will, than by not being involved. Synergy means the equation, 1+1 > 2. The gain is there for each participant, no matter at what level s/he is participating. If the gain is there, then so are the participants, thus so is pool.

The analogy I'm thinking of is politics. Unity usually means socialism, which has never been shown to make things better, but simply waste resources, frustrates willing participants and finally ends up with disaster. Synergy, though, comes from mutual competition and mutual exchange, ala capitalism. Each participant is out for himself, but can ONLY gain if s/he exchanges values with other willing participants. This paradigm is what will make pool a viable, long-lasting, money-making sport, imho.

So, I'd like to hear from BJ exactly how he wants all participants to be "united" and I'd like to also know WHY anyone would unite---and STAY united---if the situation established doesn't satisfy his/her reason for being in pool. Perhaps this is just a word problem, but I don't think so. It seems to me to be a conceptual thinking problem for those trying so hard, such as BJ, Hopkins, Siegel, to make pool successful.

Comments?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Roll-Off]

If a good majority of pool players had a college education (throw a few MBA's in the mix), there might be a future for pool. In general, pool players are too dumb to organize anything that will last. Now that's the truth, BlackJack.

 

[vagabond]

"The game of pool will never thrive nor will it ever experience any type of success unless we first unite the players and the industry to work towards a common goal. If we fail to do that, we will never earn the respect of the public, the media, or the people that are part of our industry. If we do not wake up and start to change the infrastructure of how we market ourselves to the public - we will drift away into obscurity and the MPBT players will suffer the consequences. I predict that if something is not done soon, the tour will will eventually collapse from within. I hope I am wrong."

.

Blackjack David Sapolis

Hi,
Nothing wrong with that kind of Polyannish /idealistic/naive thinking.
It will never,never,never happen.But it does not mean that is the end of the pool.If the agenda/needs of different groups can be balanced, Pool can still survive.To achieve this balance each group has to make some compromises.
Vagabond

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)

To achieve this balance each group has to make some compromises.
Vagabond

I have to disagree with this 1000%. "Compromise" means to give up something of high value for something of lesser value. This smacks of the "unity" concept problems that I was questioning in my earlier post.

Why would anyone compromise anything, if the gain is less than not compromising? And on a further note, hasn't compromise been tried and been a complete failure up to this point?

Conscious people are self-centered BY NATURE, thus "greed" or "selfishness" or whatever term currently in vogue MUST be integrated into each and every participants' activities in order to be a part of the real answer to pool's problems. It MUST!!!! Compromise cannot, BY NATURE, create additional values in the pool world, thus is canNOT be part of the real solution. It may provide temporary feel-goods, but compromise ultimately leads to a downward spiral for all involved.

Again, this may be simply a problem with terminology, but I don't think so.

Comments?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Barbara]

Hey Blackjack!

I came into the pool scene just before the Mackey thing and was more involved with playing than learning about the politics. Could you explain what happened with that tour?

Barbara

 

[Snapshot9]

My .02 cents

Granted Mr. Troudeau does not have an 'unblemished' past, but
neither do thousands of other entreprenaurs that 'flew in the
face of wrath and fear", but were successful. Many of them had
an idea and went with it, not knowing what tomorrow might bring,
or whether the bills could be paid at the end of the month.
Many were dropouts of college or considered 'troublemakers' by
society, yet they found a way to succeed. Organization and
structure was found for these people after some success, not
before, i.e., Steve Jobs, Apple Computers.

Mr Troudeau fulfilled his obligation on the Sigel vs. Jones match.
They are continuing to progress with upcoming events, and some
type of structure. It may or may not succeed, that remains to
be seen, but, as Jam noted, it has provided hope for many pros
and aspiring pros for a better tomorrow for making a living and
some stability in their lives, along with recognition. It will bring
attention to our sport, and already has to the Pool world.

This tour could inspire many young kids across the country, and
motivate parents and other enthusiasts to start Junior Leagues and
tournaments for them. Whether the tour is long standing or not,
it could still be the catalyst to many good changes that could
result.

Yes, there could be funding problems later on, but hasn't there
been with almost any tour, no matter what level it was? I will
reserve judgment at this time, and prefer to view it in a positive
light until such time that it proves to be otherwise.

Mr. Troudeau is entitled to structure the tour the way he wants,
he is putting up the money, plain and simple. If I was financing
a tour, I would listen to other outside qualified sources, but in the
end, I would guide it to however I thought would be best.

I must say, I like how the IPT is going much more than the UPA.
I sincerely offered my services to help the UPA in any way I could,
and I am educated (2 college degrees), experienced, and have
been involved with Pool for almost 44 years, on many levels, and
Mr. Alvarez, after a few emails, dismissed me like 'who am I, that
I dare to offer to help them'. That is an attitude, that is geared for
failure.

Even if the IPT doesn't succeed in the long run, it has brought hope
for a better Pool world in the future, in many ways. And our Pool
world would really not be any worse off than it is today.

 

[vagabond]

I have to disagree with this 1000%. "Compromise" means to give up something of high value for something of lesser value. This smacks of the "unity" concept problems that I was questioning in my earlier post.

Why would anyone compromise anything, if the gain is less than not compromising? And on a further note, hasn't compromise been tried and been a complete failure up to this point?

Conscious people are self-centered BY NATURE, thus "greed" or "selfishness" or whatever term currently in vogue MUST be integrated into each and every participants' activities in order to be a part of the real answer to pool's problems. It MUST!!!! Compromise cannot, BY NATURE, create additional values in the pool world, thus is canNOT be part of the real solution. It may provide temporary feel-goods, but compromise ultimately leads to a downward spiral for all involved.

Again, this may be simply a problem with terminology, but I don't think so.

Comments?

Jeff Livingston

Hey jeff,
Compromise is the cement that bonds the people in marriage.Marriage does not last long if there is no compromise.Jeff,keep stirring the pot....hee,heee,hee
Vagabond

 

[Timberly]

If a good majority of pool players had a college education (throw a few MBA's in the mix), there might be a future for pool. In general, pool players are too dumb to organize anything that will last. Now that's the truth, BlackJack.

How many kids have you seen skip college altogether to sign a pro deal?!?!?! Or leave college early.... They're making millions... no degree

 

[The Hamster]

How many kids have you seen skip college altogether to sign a pro deal?!?!?! Or leave college early.... They're making millions... no degree

Like Michelle Wie... incredible and she's only 16. What we need is a sponsor who makes 'pool' sneakers... wonder what they'd look like.

I guess the problem is there isn't anyone in the billiards industry that makes enough money to sponsor any player to that degree.

 

[cmssuits]

Kudos!

For starters, Mr. Wilson, if the IPT is successful, pool players -- pros, aspiring players, veterans, and Newbies to the game -- will have something to shoot for. It's called a FUTURE.

I'm an old pool hound and experienced firsthand the on-the-road experience when I was young and dumb. The tournament setting did not offer players much in the way of STABILITY. Tin cups don't pay the bills, though many players kept coming back to be all that they can be. When you see world champions scraping by to make ends meet in the year 2005, it is quite sad, but a definite reality.

The pros must look out for themselves because the game/sport to date has projected a dismal future. Without naming names, I know some champion players who are struggling big time to get by. Some have left pool altogether, giving up in order to survive in life, and others who have stuck it out are sometimes ridiculed and criticized as if they're outcasts of society. Everybody loves a winner, and when a player is on top of the world, society embraces them in all their glory. Let a pool player get old or not cash in a few tournaments, and suddenly they are portrayed as jackoffs and ostricized for not getting a "real job" like the rest of American taxpayers. I have often wondered why the pool culture of 2005 is so often cruel to its own. Maybe this is why pool has never excelled.

I do not know what the IPT will offer to fans of the game/sport, but it may produce a change for the better in players like Keith McCready. He has been given a new lease on life. I have NEVER seen him practicing like he is today, hitting thousands of balls daily in the basement. Several nights ago at a local tournament, he performed better than I have ever seen him before in our years together, whipping in balls [swoosh!], slow-rolling them down table with precision, and slamming the back of the pockets with authority.

Right now, the IPT has given hope to some who may have previously lost their enthusiasm for the game/sport long ago. For this reason and this reason alone, I am grateful to the IPT. Look out, Orlando, because there most definitely is an Earthquake on the horizon, beginning in December.

If anything, we are all going to see some topnotch competition, and I'm going to be right there in the front lines watching history in the making. Some can't see the forest, but for the trees. I see a future.

JAM

"Word." I'm excited.

 

[Roll-Off]

How many kids have you seen skip college altogether to sign a pro deal?!?!?! Or leave college early.... They're making millions... no degree

Yes, but they have people doing the thinking for them. Pool players are on their own. Unfortunately, very few external companies are willing to sponsor players (except for Budweiser sponsoring Earl. They must have been drunk when they signed that deal). No argument here. By the way, the Braves are losers!

 

[SlimShafty]

For starters, Mr. Wilson, if the IPT is successful, pool players -- pros, aspiring players, veterans, and Newbies to the game -- will have something to shoot for. It's called a FUTURE.

I'm an old pool hound and experienced firsthand the on-the-road experience when I was young and dumb. The tournament setting did not offer players much in the way of STABILITY. Tin cups don't pay the bills, though many players kept coming back to be all that they can be. When you see world champions scraping by to make ends meet in the year 2005, it is quite sad, but a definite reality.

The pros must look out for themselves because the game/sport to date has projected a dismal future. Without naming names, I know some champion players who are struggling big time to get by. Some have left pool altogether, giving up in order to survive in life, and others who have stuck it out are sometimes ridiculed and criticized as if they're outcasts of society. Everybody loves a winner, and when a player is on top of the world, society embraces them in all their glory. Let a pool player get old or not cash in a few tournaments, and suddenly they are portrayed as jackoffs and ostricized for not getting a "real job" like the rest of American taxpayers. I have often wondered why the pool culture of 2005 is so often cruel to its own. Maybe this is why pool has never excelled.

I do not know what the IPT will offer to fans of the game/sport, but it may produce a change for the better in players like Keith McCready. He has been given a new lease on life. I have NEVER seen him practicing like he is today, hitting thousands of balls daily in the basement. Several nights ago at a local tournament, he performed better than I have ever seen him before in our years together, whipping in balls [swoosh!], slow-rolling them down table with precision, and slamming the back of the pockets with authority.

Right now, the IPT has given hope to some who may have previously lost their enthusiasm for the game/sport long ago. For this reason and this reason alone, I am grateful to the IPT. Look out, Orlando, because there most definitely is an Earthquake on the horizon, beginning in December.

If anything, we are all going to see some topnotch competition, and I'm going to be right there in the front lines watching history in the making. Some can't see the forest, but for the trees. I see a future.

JAM

Man that's just great to hear JAM, I knew this would invigorate guys like Keith, I'm totally excited to see him play. I was always sad to see many outstanding players game suffer due to the fact that you can only push so hard when you know if you come in 10th place your going to lose money! And with all the stress and worry about financial issues and the road, pool has had little to offer these players, since God forbid a guy comes in 10th not only do they not make any money, they don't get any respect, talk about bad stress!

It is high time a player can come in 10th and feel like a winner and actually make money and be treated like a pro. In golf if you place 10th, your in the leaderboard and in a class of players that gets respect and you can see it time and again guys just don't have anything to shoot for in pool, they are fighting for there lives to get into the top 5 just trying to make a living, and after a few years they feel beat down and many lose that drive, that spark they had that you need to continue at such a high level.

Sadly we have lost some great talent that never even attempt to make it as a pro because it's just not worth all the aggravation and effort. We also lost out on seeing a higher level of competition, because regardless of what some say about the love of the sport, love can only go so far and doesn't feed your family, these guys deserve not only the money, but how about the respect that pool players have never seen. Look at Reyes, he's flying all over the place to get into any tournament he can, and he is just amazing and still doesn't get the kind of attention and respect he could or should get, and after all his expenses he makes it OK, but thats the top player, if your not in the top 6 or 7 at the end of the year your barely going to make it after expenses.

Players have nothing to lose (and don't blame them for that) and everything to gain, and I agree nothing is going to be any different if this fails since pool (at least in the USA) doesn't have an image to hurt or going to lose the spotlight since it's not even on the radar. Most current tours are based on entrance fees and very small advertising money and that will not change, and may even grow during the IPT experiment, so whats the risk, the risk is in not taking the risk!

And why fans would not want to support this (if not for anything then to help the players) is beyond me and drives me nutz

 

[Timberly]

By the way, the Braves are losers!

Not only does this show your lack of maturity, but it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please stick to the topic, & try to conduct yourself in a mature manner so the board can have a healthy discussion & not another flame war.

 

[JAM]

Man that's just great to hear JAM, I knew this would invigorate guys like Keith, I'm totally excited to see him play.

Keith is so comical lately. He's been shooting with a new weapon of mass destruction he picked up at the Open from Joe Salazar, thinking it may perform well on the slow-nap cloth. Every time he runs a rack, he looks over at me with a huge grin on his face like the Joker. Keith is happier than I have seen him in a very long time.

I was always sad to see many outstanding players game suffer due to the fact that you can only push so hard when you know if you come in 10th place your going to lose money! And with all the stress and worry about financial issues and the road, pool has had little to offer these players, since God forbid a guy comes in 10th not only do they not make any money, they don't get any respect, talk about bad stress!

It's even worse than that, SlimShafty. MANY players live in an undesirable state in an effort to save on expenses to attend a tournament. They MUST come in third or fourth place to BREAK EVEN. At every event I go to, there are players sharing a hotel room, some sleeping on the floor. They many times will eat what I refer to as "junk food," fried blood mud, because it is CHEAP. If I had to sleep on the floor and eat junk food before a big job, I am not sure I could give it my all. It is amazing to me how some players keep coming back to this environment. For some, it is a deep passion for the game/sport.

Look at Reyes, he's flying all over the place to get into any tournament he can, and he is just amazing and still doesn't get the kind of attention and respect he could or should get, and after all his expenses he makes it OK, but thats the top player, if your not in the top 6 or 7 at the end of the year your barely going to make it after expenses.

If I were to walk into an APA or BCA league night, I'd venture to guess 90 percent of the players do not even know who "The Magician" is. It is embarassing to see pro players competing on ESPN for $15,000 first-place prize monies when most other sports are in the six- and seven-figure category.

There may be an Efren in the making as I write this post. Whether he or she follows their dream and succeeds, though, is another question. Most players can't hack the lifestyle and leave, even though they do possess the capabilities to rise to the top. This is especially true for the lady pool players.

And why fans would not want to support this (if not for anything then to help the players) is beyond me and drives me nutz

NEVER before has there been this kind of investment, $1-million purses. It is extraordinary, and I can't wait for it to start.

JAM