Blackjack's Buzzkill

[Colin Colenso]

Actually, Vader nails this one. Ignoring the fact that this may not work is very irresponsible behavior by many people that are blindly following the dollar signs. We've been through before.

Colin, we don't need to learn anymore lessons. We took the deathblow from RJ Reynolds. What else do we have to learn?

Blackjack,
What you know about sports marketing and sports business development seems to be restricted to what you have seen in the pool industry.

I work in the sports marketing and general marketing industry and frankly it is obvious you have little idea about what make sports business work.

Where are your case studies of successful sports operations that developed through player unions as you are suggesting? There are none of note. You are simply guessing. That's fine, everyone can have an opinion, but your's carry some weight and I feel it is my duty to point out some of the weaknesses in your arguments, for I also love and support the game's development.

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack,
What you know about sports marketing and sports business development seems to be restricted to what you have seen in the pool industry.

I work in the sports marketing and general marketing industry and frankly it is obvious you have little idea about what make sports business work.

Where are your case studies of successful sports operations that developed through player unions as you are suggesting? There are none of note. You are simply guessing. That's fine, everyone can have an opinion, but your's carry some weight and I feel it is my duty to point out some of the weaknesses in your arguments, for I also love and support the game's development.

Colin,
You are wrong about my experience, education, and my credentials. If you would like me to discuss my experience with you, shoot me off an e-mail. I never said that a players union would develop a successful sports operation. I never said that. A players organization would be there to represent the players. This would be an autonomous entity that would be a voice to protect the interest of the players involved in our sport. Who will represent the players arbitrarily against the IPT if and when situations arise? Who was there to represent the players with the UPA? The MPBT or any of the other tours? I'm pretty sure that if I didn't step forward to help Danny Harriman this past year - nobody would have. That's the point I was making when bringing in a organization such as that.

To use your words, frankly it is obvious that you have absolutely no idea why the pro tour falls on its butt as much as it has throughout history. I have the advantage of being around this and being involved in it as long as I have. As far as me not knowing what makes a sports business work, I was involved in marketing professional wrestling in the 1990's for 2 of the 3 major promotions at the time. I think we were very successful. Its also where I am going back to. The IPT has nothing to do with my decision to back away from pool. I have an excellent opportunity to use my skills and energy in an atmosphere where people are goal oriented, not quick fix oriented. Big difference. Obviously, being in the field you can understand that.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin,
You are wrong about my experience, education, and my credentials. If you would like me to discuss my experience with you, shoot me off an e-mail. I never said that a players union would develop a successful sports operation. I never said that. A players organization would be there to represent the players. This would be an autonomous entity that would be a voice to protect the interest of the players involved in our sport. Who will represent the players arbitrarily against the IPT if and when situations arise? Who was there to represent the players with the UPA? The MPBT or any of the other tours? I'm pretty sure that if I didn't step forward to help Danny Harriman this past year - nobody would have. That's the point I was making when bringing in a organization such as that.

To use your words, frankly it is obvious that you have absolutely no idea why the pro tour falls on its butt as much as it has throughout history. I have the advantage of being around this and being involved in it as long as I have. As far as me not knowing what makes a sports business work, I was involved in marketing professional wrestling in the 1990's for 2 of the 3 major promotions at the time. I think we were very successful. Its also where I am going back to. The IPT has nothing to do with my decision to back away from pool. I have an excellent opportunity to use my skills and energy in an atmosphere where people are goal oriented, not quick fix oriented. Big difference. Obviously, being in the field you can understand that.

Ok David,
I will shoot you an email so as to discuss the issues without airing all the laundry in public.

But must sleep now...will follow up tomorrow.

Cheers,
Colin

 

[onepocketchump]

Can you tell me who came in 3rd?
Gabber

3rd does not matter. Mike Sigel was crowned by the IPT as it's 1st 8 ball world champion. When someone beats him then that person will be the reigning world champion. Like boxing - get it?

That's the WHOLE POINT. It's Kevin's Sandbox and he names the players and their titles. So you have a WPA 8-ball WC, I guess??? And an IPT one, and a VNEA one, and a BCA one, and an APA one and in the end who cares, no one.

Can you name the current WPA 8 Ball champion? How about the current United States national 8 ball champion, the European 8-ball champion? Wait, there is no United States 8-ball championship to crown a US champion. This debate over the "legitimacy" of titles is endless and pointless.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

The two situations are not parallel at all, as far as I can see. In fact, the pro 3-cushion organization, the BWA, has gone belly-up. Even when they were running a competing tour, they never called their champion the "World Champion" as such, so far as I know, as the UMB was and remains the world governing body for carom. Also, for both of those organizations, it was not possible to win the championship without a significant competition.

Then I stand corrected as to the use of the carom organizations. You will however, hopefully agree that the term "World Champion" has been liberally used by many organizations through the history of this game. At least SOMEONE is actually READING what I write. Thank you Bob.

As for the signifigant competion part, I believe that the guidelines of the regular tournaments, not the Sigel-Jones match, do pretty much lay it out that the winner will be determined by who PLAYS the best. I don't know if the format dictates that the winner of each tournament is automatically in the finals of the next tournament but I can tell you this, if it is so then it will defintely be exciting. How much pressure will be on the player who is "King of the Hill" to retain that spot, knowing that if they fail they have to start over come the next tournament? I see nothing wrong with it.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

Chris

Great post, btw. No - I am not willing to go down with any more ships with professional pool. If business people such as yourself within our industry recognized those things about Don Mackey... and here it comes and this goes for everybody...

Where were the business people in our industry the day pro pool died? - cuemakers - table manufacturers - etc etc - when the professional players needed funding for added money in events to keep pool afloat? Where were they?

You know, it's stuff like this that makes me wonder whether people have any clue about how poor this industry is. Do you think that the pool industry just has millions to spend on professional pool? And IF they did then WHO would own pool? The industry would OWN it.

But aside from the lack of REAL money to create a welfare tour for the starving pro players, you have to ask yourself WHY the industry would have wanted to back a pro tour when at the end of the PBT there was very vocal divisiveness among the pro players?

And Pro Pool did not die. If you really go and look you will see that through independent events that there is as much or more money available to the pro players as when the Camel Tour was in full effect. I never saw Johnny Archer have to go out and get a "real" job after the PBT folded. Ask the UPA if pro pool is dead. It may have been disorganized but there were still plenty of venues for professional pool players to ply their trade.

John

 

[Jimmy M.]

Hey Jimmy my man,
whom are u talking to!!!!! Rude Dog is sleeping.Hee,hee,hee

I don't know who I was talking to. It was around 5:00am when I posted and I was half dead.

Everyone, don't mind my post. Resume the bickering. I'm off to get some popcorn.

 

[Blackjack]

Some people have insinuated that I have called Mr. Trudeau a criminal in this thread. I have gone back and read the entire 9 pages, and its not there. I don't mind participating in a discussion like this at all, but do not misquote me when speaking with others. I have never met or spoken to Mr. Trudeau. In this thread I made reference to credibility issues that he has. Mr. Trudeau has been very candid about these issues. I also referred to it as "alarming baggage". In no way was I calling him a criminal, nor did I refer to him as such in any way. To the people that have said this to others, get your facts straight prior to quoting me.

 

[onepocketchump]

Some people have insinuated that I have called Mr. Trudeau a criminal in this thread. I have gone back and read the entire 9 pages, and its not there. I don't mind participating in a discussion like this at all, but do not misquote me when speaking with others. I have never met or spoken to Mr. Trudeau. In this thread I made reference to credibility issues that he has. Mr. Trudeau has been very candid about these issues. I also referred to it as "alarming baggage". In no way was I calling him a criminal, nor did I refer to him as such in any way. To the people that have said this to others, get your facts straight prior to quoting me.

As in Jesus to the crowd, 'beware this harlot, she proclaims her virtuous intentions and redemption, yet she carries alarming baggage with her.' I think there was also something in there about judge not lest you be judged. That'll be my thought for the week.

Have a good week everyone.

John

 

[bobroberts]

You all need to face one thing.Pool sucks and so do the so called pros.Anyone who can bring the sport in to the 21st century is worth looking into.I dont see anyone else out there doing anything better.
Bob