Blew BIH on 3 balls/WWYD?

Bob Jewett said:
So for the 7-ball shot you would play the 7 to one of the corner pockets by the 8? Or would you go to a side pocket?
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Top left corner from the original image. I'd try and hit just before the 3rd diamond on the long rail and go across to the other long rail. It can leave you thin(ish) on the 8, but I would rather be thin on the 8 and go short rail to short rail than be trying to force an angle out of the 8.

My second option if I was doubting that would be follow to short rail and back up to short rail but its very speed dependant on how you get on the 8.
 
Bob Jewett said:
So for the 7-ball shot you would play the 7 to one of the corner pockets by the 8? Or would you go to a side pocket?
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He's using the wrong words to describe the stun draw off the up in either left corner and have the cue ball just float down table without really hitting a rail.

I thought my reply got posted yesterday, but it seems not to have. After all my attempts on 7, 8, and 9 foot tables, I have to reassess my choice. There's too many factors available to make this a one trick pony choice. On 7ft tables, any choice but the follow up is wrong. It is nearly a 95% success rate with the C level players, and everyone else is 100%. As for an 8ft table, since most people who I know have nap cloth on the table, going 2-3 rails into the corner and back down is better. On a 9ft the two rail in and out of the corner is the second worst. Cue ball needs to travel too far for most players to control. The "Z" shot, follow , and draw shots all suffer from the same problem. If you land in the danger zone of leaves and aren't perfectly in control of what you're doing, the run out stops at the 8 no matter what.

There is only one truly wrong shot to choose, and that's shooting the 7 in the side. Besides that, it really all boils down to are you in control on your stroke or not. Have you been hitting everything long or short? I found myself slightly over running my target position going for the "Z" shot on a few tries, but my draw was perfect for the tries. My follow never failed. But pocketing the "Z" shot was easiest. It's all a toss up.
 
Old Nine Baller said:
I'm not asking anyone to bet anything, I'm just asking them to try to think about what they would shoot for money. That is the only way to learn and that's why I mention it. It doesn't hurt to shoot the wrong shot playing for fun.

I do not have a video camera and don't know how to post videos anyway.

P.S. If you've ever played 9 ball for $100 per game or sets for $1000 of your own money then you would learn the right shots or run out of money. Sometimes both happen:wink:.

It's no huge deal to me if anyone here ever learns anything from me but I try to be helpful to those who want to learn.


ONB
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No problem man. Just pullin your chain. I would like to see you do it. From the other videos, every one had a different "comfort" shot. One shot looked smoother for different people. Get someone to record on a cell phone and post it for you. Its pretty easy.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
He's using the wrong words to describe the stun draw off the up in either left corner and have the cue ball just float down table without really hitting a rail.

I thought my reply got posted yesterday, but it seems not to have. After all my attempts on 7, 8, and 9 foot tables, I have to reassess my choice. There's too many factors available to make this a one trick pony choice. On 7ft tables, any choice but the follow up is wrong. It is nearly a 95% success rate with the C level players, and everyone else is 100%. As for an 8ft table, since most people who I know have nap cloth on the table, going 2-3 rails into the corner and back down is better. On a 9ft the two rail in and out of the corner is the second worst. Cue ball needs to travel too far for most players to control. The "Z" shot, follow , and draw shots all suffer from the same problem. If you land in the danger zone of leaves and aren't perfectly in control of what you're doing, the run out stops at the 8 no matter what.

There is only one truly wrong shot to choose, and that's shooting the 7 in the side. Besides that, it really all boils down to are you in control on your stroke or not. Have you been hitting everything long or short? I found myself slightly over running my target position going for the "Z" shot on a few tries, but my draw was perfect for the tries. My follow never failed. But pocketing the "Z" shot was easiest. It's all a toss up.
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I think you'll find I wasn't using the wrong words to describe the shot.
 
buckshotshoey said:
No problem man. Just pullin your chain. I would like to see you do it. From the other videos, every one had a different "comfort" shot. One shot looked smoother for different people. Get someone to record on a cell phone and post it for you. Its pretty easy.
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It ain't no thang:smile:.

The point is this; I know what I would shoot for $1000 playing sets of 9 ball on my own dime because I've done it.

There are not multiple "right" shots, there is 1 "right" shot that everybody needs to learn. A player gets better by learning the right shot, not by ducking it. You do not get 10 practice attempts when a layout like this comes up, you get one attempt and if you don't get out, you lose.

I'd also like to see the Original Poster say how far the 8 & 9 were off the rails. They clearly were not frozen. If the 9 is off the rail an inch I wouldn't have any problem at all playing shapes for it in the top left corner of the layout.

ONB
 
Pidge said:
Top left corner from the original image. I'd try and hit just before the 3rd diamond on the long rail and go across to the other long rail. ...
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This is the shot the 'Merkins are calling the "Z pattern" above. What cut angle would you set up for on the 7? About half ball?
 
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Pidge said:
I think you'll find I wasn't using the wrong words to describe the shot.
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I honestly have never heard of a "stun run through shot" and just figured you meant "stun shot" which would not work in this case. Maybe I am just not caught up on technical terms, but "stun run through" is hardly a commonly known phrase. Also, punch follow wouldn't work if you have a medium angle and want to get on the short side of the 9 and probably wouldn't be the ideal way to get to the shortside even if you had less angle.
 
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Old Nine Baller said:
I'd also like to see the Original Poster say how far the 8 & 9 were off the rails. They clearly were not frozen. If the 9 is off the rail an inch I wouldn't have any problem at all playing shapes for it in the top left corner of the layout.

ONB
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8 and 9 balls were each off rail about 3/8 inch.
 
So I attempted the two rail route z shot and the ONB's three rail route which I like. I shot both shots 10 tens each. What I found is that landing on the 8 ball with a follow, not draw shot, yielded a 40% increase in runout percentage no matter how i got to the 8.

1. I shot a three rail route 10 times trying to run out all three balls leaving a draw shot on the 8
2. I shot the z shot 10 times trying to run out all three balls leaving a follow shot on the 8
3. I shot the three rail route the other direction so that i could get a follow shot from the 8 to the 9. Just like how I left myself with the z shot.

2 & 3 yielded a 70% runout percentage while 1 only yielded a 30% runout percentage.

Watch the video if you have time.

3 ball run out attempt
 
Pidge said:
Stun run through. Or punch follow as some call it. Hit the ball firm so it slides for the majority of its journey, then the ball gathers a slight amount of follow before it contacts the object ball. Depending on the firmness of the shot and how much follow you generate is how you get to the 9. Either one rail or short rail to short rail, which is what id prefer to do.
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Refer to my video in my previous post for an example of this. It was my favorite way to get to the 9
 
Masayoshi said:
I honestly have never heard of a "stun run through shot" and just figured you meant "stun shot" which would not work in this case. Maybe I am just not caught up on technical terms, but "stun run through" is hardly a commonly known phrase.
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It's a very common phrase in England.
 
center pocket said:
So I attempted the two rail route z shot and the ONB's three rail route which I like. I shot both shots 10 tens each. What I found is that landing on the 8 ball with a follow, not draw shot, yielded a 40% increase in runout percentage no matter how i got to the 8.

1. I shot a three rail route 10 times trying to run out all three balls leaving a draw shot on the 8
2. I shot the z shot 10 times trying to run out all three balls leaving a follow shot on the 8
3. I shot the three rail route the other direction so that i could get a follow shot from the 8 to the 9. Just like how I left myself with the z shot.

2 & 3 yielded a 70% runout percentage while 1 only yielded a 30% runout percentage.

Watch the video if you have time.

3 ball run out attempt
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Of the 2, the "Z" looked more comfortable to you.....from my perspective.
 
Bob Jewett said:
This is the shot the 'Merkins are calling the "Z pattern" above. What cut angle would you set up for on the 7? About half ball?
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Around half ball, maybe slightly thinner or thicker depending on how the table plays.
 
3RAILKICK said:
8 and 9 balls were each off rail about 3/8 inch.
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I missed this in the original diagram. I played around with the shot some the other night, but I had the 8 and 9 frozen. My goal was to get under the 9 to play it in the closer pocket, but really found that playing it down the long rail to the far pocket wasn't too bad either. I did fail to get out once when my cueball ended up frozen to the same rail as the 9 and I just didn't hit it pure enough.

With the 9 slightly off the rail I might just aim to play it in the far pocket every time. If so, I would consider playing the 7 in the bottom left and just stunning up the table for the 8. The tangent line takes you to a nice spot on the bottom long rail when you play it there, and speed is not nearly as critical with the balls slightly off the rail.

Aaron
 
Cut the seven in the upper left corner with an angle to come off the top rail and down to the leave an angle on the eight in the upper right corner. Cut the eight in with top follow, bringing the cue ball down table for the nine in the same pocket. If you're not comfortable with the top follow or your control of speed, then use low and come two rails for shape on the nine. If you go too far for shape on the eight, you can still make it in the same pocket with a nice easy follow and play the nine in the upper left corner instead. Pattern seems pretty straight forward for me at least. It's just a matter of cue ball control and making a couple of rail shots.
 
I was playing around with this a little today and tried most of the various options and played around with a few others. Hands down the easiest shot was one not suggested yet, afaik.

Note: I was on a relatively fast table, so your results may vary.

The shot was putting the cue ball at a medium angle shooting the cue ball into the top left to draw directly to the short rail.

I shot this shot about 10 times or so and got a good angle on the next ball everytime. Its so simple I could probably do it with my eyes closed or opposite handed (probably not both, though).

Of course, in a real match I wouldn't put much thought into it and shoot the 2 railer, but the draw shot is significantly easier and less touchy. With the Z, you can end up on the rail, too close to the 8, straight, or at a bad angle, with the draw shot, as long as you are careful in setting up the correct angle with BIH, the only way to screw it up is if you hit it REALLY bad and don't make it to the rail.
 
Masayoshi said:
... The shot was putting the cue ball at a medium angle shooting the cue ball into the top left to draw directly to the short rail. ... .
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I'm guessing you meant "shooting the object ball" above.

These are some of the ways I can think of, and you need to be able to play each of them:

Top left pocket, draw, above the 8, no cushion
Top left pocket, draw, above the 8, with right end cushion
Top left pocket, draw, above the 8, top long cushion only
Top left pocket, draw, above the 8, top long cushion, end cushion
Top left pocket, draw, below the 8, no cushion
(three more as above)
Top left pocket, draw, below the 8 -- all eight combinations above
Bottom left pocket, draw, all 16 combinations above
Top left pocket, cut to left, Z pattern, no end cushion
Top left pocket, cut to left, Z pattern, with end cushion
Top left pocket, cut to left. follow to top cushion then to below 8
Top left pocket, cut to left. follow to top cushion then to below 8, touch end cushion
Bottom left pocket, four shots above.
Top left pocket, left end then bottom long, six different cases
Same six cases for bottom left...
Follow to middle of left end rail for 16 different cases
Nearly straight into a left corner pocket and then spin out of that same corner for roughly 16 different cases
...
And then there is:
7 into top left pocket with lots of left english, hit on the top rail to the left of the side pocket, come back across the table nearly straight and slowly to the bottom rail, then the spin grabs and carries the ball down to the 8. There is a video of Corey doing this shot or something similar.

If you can't come close on any one of them after five tries you know what you need to work on.

I suppose you could make this layout into a drill: run out with 20 different starting patterns.
 
Masayoshi said:
I was playing around with this a little today and tried most of the various options and played around with a few others. Hands down the easiest shot was one not suggested yet, afaik.

Note: I was on a relatively fast table, so your results may vary.

The shot was putting the cue ball at a medium angle shooting the cue ball into the top left to draw directly to the short rail.

I shot this shot about 10 times or so and got a good angle on the next ball everytime. Its so simple I could probably do it with my eyes closed or opposite handed (probably not both, though).

Of course, in a real match I wouldn't put much thought into it and shoot the 2 railer, but the draw shot is significantly easier and less touchy. With the Z, you can end up on the rail, too close to the 8, straight, or at a bad angle, with the draw shot, as long as you are careful in setting up the correct angle with BIH, the only way to screw it up is if you hit it REALLY bad and don't make it to the rail.
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I like this as it's the shortest, simplest route. You can also ease up on the stroke and draw down to just below the middle diamond under the 9 ball. If you hit it a little too hard, it will drift down to the short rail. A little too soft, and you still have a decent shot at the 8 ball.

Best,
Mike
 
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