Book...The Color of Money

Absolutely. But the book didn't have characters that Tom Cruise and Mary Elizabeth Mastroantonio could play, and once you decide you can't carry the project on Paul Newman alone and you have to run in a couple of young actors you are stuck with a completely rewritten story. The absurdity stems from not thinking Newman couldn't carry the movie - which was ridiculous. It is what happens when the money guys call the shots. Ironically, the fact that Newman won Best Actor in this turkey showed that he could have easily carried the much better movie that could have been made based on the book.

I had already read the book when the movie first came out, and I was so excited I did something I had never done before, and never since, - stood in a line to see it on opening weekend. What a tremendous disappointment it was.

If you liked the book, you might enjoy his (Walter Tevis) chess novel, The Queens Gambit.


Newman won for COM because he got screwed on The Verdict... do you know that was his FIRST Best Actor Oscar? Unreal... he def could've carried the film by himself.. Paul freaking Newman?

And yeah, I remember seeing COM in the theater when it came out.. all the Cruise kung fu stick spinning, I'm all "Marty what is this sh*t?"

Sure would've liked to see Burt and Fats cameos... G.C. Scott and Gleason were still around back then... could you imagine?.. Eddie starts playing again, and one night in the poolroom, Burt shows up!:cool:
 
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The seediness of pool has absolutely nothing to do with it's lack of popularity. Let me spit some knowledge at you, so we can all just stop throwing out that old chestnut because we don't know the reason why. Once I explain it, you will know why pool is failing, and you no longer have to make up a reason.

Pool, and all other competitive games/sports, rely on a new influx of young, aggressive, competitive males to fill the ranks vacated by those too old to effectively compete. (Because males compete at a far higher rate than females..) With the rise of high fidelity video games with competitive leagues and leaderboards, these young aggressive males have an outlet to compete, that would have historically been provided to them by pool. And they start participating in this outlet far before they ever would have been able to set foot in a pool hall.

In addition, what makes any competitive outlet attractive is the endorphin/dopamine rush one gets once one has conquered a major hurdle. Young males get that constantly from playing video games custom-built to trigger these responses, so running a 9 ball rack is always gonna pale in comparison, and require WAY too much work. In fact, dopamine burnout may very well be responsible for skyrocketing rates of depression in today's society..

So, drop the BS about how pool's "image" is responsible for it's failure to be popular. Both movies in the past 50 years that caused huge resurgences in the game expressedly focused on the seedier aspects of the game.

No teenager/20 year old decides not to pursue a hobby just because the older generation doesn't approve. They decide to pursue it because it is "fun", nothing more. And pool has to compete against video games/social media for the "fun" factor, and is found lacking.

I may re-post this in it's own thread to get more visibility.

tap tap tap
 
I thought it would be T.J. Hooker. I mean.... James Tiberius Kirk with a new hairpiece AND a new uniform? What could possibly be more realistic? If not, I'm at a loss...

"I'm going to guess... Hill Street Blues. That's the one that the only police officers/detectives I know said was close, albeit with goofy characters at times.

Freddie <~~~ not counting "reality" TV"



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Oh, and reality TV ain't all reality TV. There are absolutely reenacted moments in COPS as well as others. COPS was filmed in my city on a couple of occasions and they reenacted a foot chase as a result from a jump and run from a car stop a week before.
 
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Newman won for COM because he got screwed on The Verdict... do you know that was his FIRST Best Actor Oscar? Unreal... he def could've carried the film by himself.. Paul freaking Newman?

And yeah, I remember seeing COM in the theater when it came out.. all the Cruise kung fu stick spinning, I'm all "Marty what is this sh*t?"

Sure would've liked to see Burt and Fats cameos... G.C. Scott and Gleason were still around back then... could you imagine?.. Eddie starts playing again, and one night in the poolroom, Burt shows up!:cool:

I read somewhere that Gleason was expecting to get invited to reprise his role in TCOM, and should have, if the book were followed. I think there was a combination of focusing on the younger characters to some extent, to draw in the big demographic...that, plus a lot of pool players (Sigel, et al) throwing ideas at Scorsese that pulled the movie into a totally different direction. I'd love to see the original, pre-shoot screen play to see where he thought it was going, if it was different.

FTR, I like TCOM. Still watch it when it comes on, and the DVD sits next to my DVD of the Hustler on the shelf. And I have both books, too.
 
I read somewhere that Gleason was expecting to get invited to reprise his role in TCOM, and should have, if the book were followed.
...

Here's something about Gleason from Wiki:

"Absent from the film is the character Minnesota Fats, played by Jackie Gleason in The Hustler. Newman later said that he had wanted the character to appear, but that none of the attempts to include him fit well into the story that was being written. According to Scorsese, Gleason apparently agreed with Newman's opinion that Minnesota Fats was not essential to the film's story. Scorsese said that Gleason was presented a draft of the script that had Fats worked into the narrative, but that upon reading it, Gleason declined to reprise the role because he felt that the character seemed to have been added as 'an afterthought'."
 
Just finished reading the book.
Far superior to the movie, in my opinion. Great plot in the book with some good romance in it and a happy ending.
Why oh why didn't Scorcese listen to Grady and do the movie the better way. A way which would enhance the game instead of showing it to be seedy and crummy with dumping and all the usual stuff.
Grady was right about the film. You don't take a kid working in a toy store, take him on the road for a few weeks and he ends up beating real players.
And you don't take an alcoholic who's been out of serious action for 25 years, never played 9-Ball at all, and in a month he's beating real players either.
Does anyone else share my opinion of this book vs the film?
:thumbup:

Walter Tevis wrote the book and he was a world class writer. The only thing Scorcese took from the book was the title. Too bad because the book told a much better story.
 
Walter Tevis wrote the book and he was a world class writer. The only thing Scorcese took from the book was the title. Too bad because the book told a much better story.

Well, not to be pedantic, but I did catch numerous almost direct quotes from the book, as I am reading it now. Mostly in the first tournament Eddie tries to play where he gets drilled. Fat Guy: I didn't deserve that.", Best 9 Ball Player: "It's keeps getting worse, doesn't it?", etc...

I used to think that Keith McCready was just told to play himself and say cool sounding stuff, but his character in the movie is taken directly from the book.

Short Bus Russ
 
Just finished reading the book.
Far superior to the movie, in my opinion. Great plot in the book with some good romance in it and a happy ending.
Why oh why didn't Scorcese listen to Grady and do the movie the better way. A way which would enhance the game instead of showing it to be seedy and crummy with dumping and all the usual stuff.
Grady was right about the film. You don't take a kid working in a toy store, take him on the road for a few weeks and he ends up beating real players.
And you don't take an alcoholic who's been out of serious action for 25 years, never played 9-Ball at all, and in a month he's beating real players either.
Does anyone else share my opinion of this book vs the film?
:thumbup:

I agree 100%. Love the book. I like that Fats and Eddie become friends. The movie of the same title has nothing to do with the book by Walter Tevis, and that's a shame.....would've been a good movie.
 
I read the book about thirty years ago. This was not too long after I had seen the movie the Color of Money, and I expected it to basically follow the same storyline. The cover of the book even had pictures of the actors from the movie.

Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be virtually an entirely different and significantly better story. There was no "Vincent" character, while Minnesota Fats featured prominently in the book. Jackie Gleason was alive when the movie was filmed in 1985 and was offered a cameo. He turned it down and filmed a movie called "Nothing in Common" with Tom Hanks. Imagine if the screenplay had actually been based on the book and Fats had been a major character in the film. I'd say there would have been a fairly good chance Gleason would have opted to be in TCOM.

Alas what we got instead was a movie that sought to capitalize on the stardom of a young Tom Cruise. A movie that I enjoyed years ago but has aged poorly.
 
I enjoyed both the movies and the books but The Hustler was a masterpiece of cinema which far outshines TCOM. But all things considered, the TCOM was a good movie that helped bring pool back in the lime light.

What about a movie about based on Jay Helfert or Danny Diliberto's lives?
I am sure I am one of many that think an Earl Strickland movie has great potential!
 
Kid

I enjoyed both the movies and the books but The Hustler was a masterpiece of cinema which far outshines TCOM. But all things considered, the TCOM was a good movie that helped bring pool back in the lime light.

What about a movie about based on Jay Helfert or Danny Diliberto's lives?
I am sure I am one of many that think an Earl Strickland movie has great potential!

In early 2000's Lionsgate films considered doing a movie on Kid Delicious road stories. I think he even received a check from them giving them the rights to his life story.
I remember Kevin James of King of Queens was considered for the part of Kid D.
 
I'd love to see the Strickland story!

But how do you tell the Earl story without the Efrem story?
So in Hollywood one of them would have to be the bad guy. They're bound to screw that up. Though i can see a hokey but heartwarming screenplay with a rescue from obscurity, and a reconciliation at the end as they beat each others brains out on a retirement world tour.

No, seriously......
 
Is also why pool isn't mainstream and won't achieve its true potential as a real sport in this country.

Yes.

Don't assume that just because someone is a pool player that they want the best for the sport. I'm not a big time hustler/gambler or whatever. I match up here and there and get in small local tournaments and enter some bigger ones on occasion. Pool in no way pays my bills or puts food on my table... I like pool right where it is....

The last thing I want is it to get all mainstream and popular and have my local pool hall flooded with 15 year olds who after playing for a year, can give me the 8 because they have no other responsibility in life.
 
Why oh why didn't Scorcese listen to Grady and do the movie the better way.:

Yeah, why didn't the Academy Award winning director not listen to the advice on how to make a movie from a guy who is in a profession that it's professionals can barely scrap by a living on...

That's just crazy...
 
In early 2000's Lionsgate films considered doing a movie on Kid Delicious road stories. I think he even received a check from them giving them the rights to his life story.
I remember Kevin James of King of Queens was considered for the part of Kid D.

Wow, that has some potential there too alright especially if he mixed in some mma due to a shady hustle! :grin-square:
 
I agree 100%. Love the book. I like that Fats and Eddie become friends. The movie of the same title has nothing to do with the book by Walter Tevis, and that's a shame.....would've been a good movie.

If you look back at The Hustler you see there was always a respect between Fats and Eddie
 
I'd love to see the Strickland story!

But how do you tell the Earl story without the Efrem story?
So in Hollywood one of them would have to be the bad guy. They're bound to screw that up. Though i can see a hokey but heartwarming screenplay with a rescue from obscurity, and a reconciliation at the end as they beat each others brains out on a retirement world tour.

No, seriously......

Alan? Mike? NIck?

Who else says 'Efrem'?
 
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