Bottom English Problem

[jed1894]

I posted earlier about this ..... but now I have brand new 860 cloth on my table....

I'm having a time with my bottom english. I can only back it up about 12 inches. I've been playing pool for 20 + years and never had any problem before. I've tried every thing and all my sticks--it just won't back up. I've videotaped myself to check follow-through and it looks fine.

I'm now using a Meucci black dot. My table is a Valley 8ft bar table with new cloth. I'm using a magnetic ball (also tried regular ball). I have not altered the tip that came on the stick. I'm using Master chalk (also tried all others).

One thing I did note: the tip on my black dot shaft doesn't seem to hold a lot of chalk, but I don't miscue. However, if I really get on the bottom of the cue, it will miscue and jump.

Any suggestions?

thanks, JED

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Poor stroke.

Inaccurate follow through. you may be cuing low on warm up strokes, but where is the actual contact point when you make contact?

Those are the only two things it could be. On new 860 cloth you should be able to draw it at least 2 table lengths if you've been playing that long.

S.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...

Any suggestions?

The ability to draw has almost nothing to do with the cloth if the cue ball starts close to the object ball. For long distances to the object ball, new Simonis should draw very easily compared to long shots on old cloth.

Try drawing the ball (the same cue and object balls) at the local pool hall.

Try a house stick.

Get a new tip.

Have someone knowledgeable watch you.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Jed,
Seems your tip is no good or you're hitting too wide rather than low.

I suggest a Talisman tip, but most of the good tips should help you improve.

btw. I don't think it has much to do with stroke. Primarily speed and the position you hit the cue ball. I can draw 6 feet with english with a short follow through if need be.

 

[sjm]

I'm guessing you're either using a badly shaped tip or that your cue is slightly elevated rather than level.

 

[Jal]

...
I'm having a time with my bottom english. ...Any suggestions?

As StevePWaldon suggested, you're probably not making contact where you think you are. To confirm or eliminate this, try the following.

Use a striped ball for the cueball with the stripe oriented horizontally. After shooting, check the chalk mark to see how close it is to the lower edge of the stripe. If it's close or on the edge and you're still not getting draw, I wouldn't know how to explain it. (This assumes that the stripe is half a ball's diameter in width. You can check this by freezing it to two other frozen balls with the stripe oriented vertically. If it's a half ball in width, the edges of the stripe should run through the contact points with the other two balls.)

Good luck.

Jim

 

[Hooked]

Any suggestions?

thanks, JED

If I had to guess, which I am, I would say it is 1 of 2 things.

1) Hitting too hard - too slow = less distance and too hard = less distance

2) Loosen your grip - this is usually the problem if you are hitting at the correct speed.

 

[5ballcharlie]

This has always helped me when im not sure i am hitting the center of the ball or to see if how low or high i am hitting. If you have a red circle cue ball place the circle downward and of course straight in with the contact point of your object ball for a straight draw shot. Really chalk your stick up good so much that chalk is coming off of the tip of it. Now just try and hit the red circle after the results pick up the cue ball and see if the chalk stains are on the red circle.

 

[Snapshot9]

I would say ....

1) Butt hand is too high on the stroke. You want
your cue to be as level as posssible on a draw.
2) Your tip is misshaped. I have run across all kinds
of players that play with 'not much' tip, or where the
tip does not have an outer edge. Myself, I like almost
new tips. I shape it like I want, which are minor differences
from how it first comes, and play with it after that.
As the tip wears down, I will occasionally, not often,
sand the sides of the tip to make sure that the sides
are vertical and even all the way around, and that
there is a 45 degree slant up to the top of the tip.
I like my tip to be about 12.75 mm.

 

[Fred Agnir]

. I've videotaped myself to check follow-through and it looks fine.

Look at the videotape again and see if you actually hit low.


Fred

 

[Fred Agnir]

I'm guessing you're either using a badly shaped tip or that your cue is slightly elevated rather than level.

Your cue will always be slightly elevated. So, that can't be it. Most decent players elevate more than "as level as possible."

Fred

 

[jed1894]

Thanks for all the help. One other thing I did not mention:

I have the original tip on the black dot shaft: LePro, I think it is. I have never touched it. I'm shooting with like it came. However, it looks to be a dime shape. But I don't think that's the problem because I used to be able to draw a table length with a bar stick with one of those stick on-pull over tips.

By-the-way, I've been playing for a number of years with no problem drawing the ball. But I quit about 2 years ago and just started playing again with my own table. Apparently I'm doing something very different now.

One thing that I think I'm doing now is holding the stick (butt) a little tight on my draw shots. Someone pointed that out. That might be the problem since I get frustrated when it won't back up and therefore I may be gripping a little tight. I'll try a loose grip tonight.

thanks again,

JED

 

[Bob Jewett]

... One thing that I think I'm doing now is holding the stick (butt) a little tight on my draw shots. Someone pointed that out. That might be the problem since I get frustrated when it won't back up and therefore I may be gripping a little tight. I'll try a loose grip tonight.
...

If that works, your fixing your problem with a phony cure. Tightness of the grip alone has essentially no influence on how much draw you get. However, if the death grip causes you to hit high on the ball, then loosening your grip may get you to hit lower.

It's much better to fix your fundamental flaw, and none of us has any idea of what that is.

 

[Karate]

Snapshot is right

Your cue isn't level.
And throw that magnetic ball in the trash, then take the trash outside, dig a hole and bury all.

Thanks
Karate

 

[Hooked]

If that works, your fixing your problem with a phony cure. Tightness of the grip alone has essentially no influence on how much draw you get...

Wow Bob, are you serious? Grip pressure is directly related to the mechanics of the wrist. Correct grip pressure is almost essential to consistant spin whether its side, top, or bottom.

maybe you are the guy kinister refers to, in his tapes, that gives out bad advice in the magazines lol

 

[Bob Jewett]

Wow Bob, are you serious? Grip pressure is directly related to the mechanics of the wrist. Correct grip pressure is almost essential to consistant spin whether its side, top, or bottom....

Yes. I'm not talking about consistency. I'm talking about individual shots. You can grip the cue tight or loose, but if you come in at the same elevation and speed and tip contact point, the amount of spin will be essentially the same.

In fact, I argue against a death-grip on the cue but for other reasons, primarily for consistency. It will not change the amount of spin you get on the ball, all other things being equal (which they usually won't be.)

By the way, there are people who argue on both of the other sides of grip tightness -- some say a tight grip spins the ball better and some say a loose grip. They're mistaken.

 

[Wizardry]

try using a looser grip. try imagine the mechnics of "throwing" the cue at the CB instead of trying to hit at the bottom of the cue ball. personally, i feel that to acheive a good draw, you dont really hit the very bottom of the cue ball but maybe one- two tips below center. dont squeeze the butt of the cue upon successful comepletion of the stoke, but hold it tight enough to prevent the cue from flying away....

As someone once said in the forum...
"Stroke it, dont Choke it"

Good luck.