Brand New Pool Table Projection System.

iusedtoberich said:
$600 vs $250 ish for the other one?! No thanks.
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I am now selling the PPB system at a very reduced price. You can find it in the "For Sale" items. I am selling because I've bought the new icatraining.com system.
 
denwhit said:
I am now selling the PPB system at a very reduced price. You can find it in the "For Sale" items. I am selling because I've bought the new icatraining.com system.
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I saw your add. I'll counter with 75 total with the computer hardware. I'll buy my own projector.
 
These systems are right up my alley. I'm the target customer. I do drills with doughnuts and I like electronic gadgets. Here is my take:

1) I almost pulled the trigger on projectionprobilliards last year. I thought its price of $250 was very fair for the computer and software. The cost of the projector was one holdback. It was about 500 new, or about 300 used on eBay. I would have gone used, putting the price at 550. Add in mounting hardware, cables, mouse, keyboard, and lets call it 600. That is a steep price for a doughnut replacement. I just checked eBay to see if the used projectors are less, and they are still in the 300 range for the one recommended at projectionprobilliards.

2) Early adopter. I did not want to be an early adopter. I was one for the last two electronic items for the pool market: The gen 1 QMD stroke trainer, and the gen 1 digi-cue stroke trainer. I bought both. Both sucked. I said I'm not going to be the sucker again for gen 1 pool electronic items.

3) I checked every single youtube and webpage of projection pro billiards last year (and refreshed my memory since this thread came out). I did the same for the new icatraining system. From the videos, the main difference I see is the icatraining system puts a circle under the ball (which I like a lot). The projection pro billiards system only puts a number under the ball (no circle). This would lead to less repeatable ball placement it seems.

The Ica system also allows you to draw lines, tangent lines, follow lines, add text, etc. Just like the old cuetable diagramming tool did. While I think that would be super useful for an instructor to generate new material for his students, I think it would be limited use for a student who wants to do a WWYD thread from here, or break a rack and mark the balls to play the same layout over and over.

4) The user interface on both systems seems the same. Its a menu driven system. I don't know if that is a function of the computer hardware they both share, or the software each respective developer wrote.

5) I was also worried about the projection pro billiards system last year, that it is 1 programmer working on it, and he may decide to quit. Now, with the ICA system, its the same situation. One programmer, and one instructor. These guys might realize there is only a handful of people that will buy any of these systems, and not develop further, because its not worth their time.

6. That brings us back to the ICA and cost. It is 600, plus 300 for a used projector on eBay. Plus 25 for the mounting hardware (it comes with the keyboard/mouse/cables). That takes us to 950. That is a tough pill to swallow, when 550 looks like it will do almost the same thing.

7. Now that we have competition, I hope they will both improve their systems.

8. Oh, and content. The projectionprobilliards you can buy the instruction add-on from the instructor for ICA for just $30. So you will get his drills anyway. *Edit, I just checked the projectionprobilliards site, and now I can't find this add-on. Either I lost where it is, or the instructor blocked it since he has his own product now. 100% it was there 3 days ago.


YMMV:)
 
denwhit said:
Wait!.... I thought you were going to pay $250 for PPB? I'm offering a big savings at my price.
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ha ha, as fast as you jumped ship from the product you were endorsing 10 times a day all last year, to a product made by your instructor, you should pay me to take it from you:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 
iusedtoberich said:
These systems are right up my alley. I'm the target customer. I do drills with doughnuts and I like electronic gadgets. Here is my take:

1) I almost pulled the trigger on projectionprobilliards last year. I thought its price of $250 was very fair for the computer and software. The cost of the projector was one holdback. It was about 500 new, or about 300 used on eBay. I would have gone used, putting the price at 550. Add in mounting hardware, cables, mouse, keyboard, and lets call it 600. That is a steep price for a doughnut replacement. I just checked eBay to see if the used projectors are less, and they are still in the 300 range for the one recommended at projectionprobilliards.

2) Early adopter. I did not want to be an early adopter. I was one for the last two electronic items for the pool market: The gen 1 QMD stroke trainer, and the gen 1 digi-cue stroke trainer. I bought both. Both sucked. I said I'm not going to be the sucker again for gen 1 pool electronic items.

3) I checked every single youtube and webpage of projection pro billiards last year (and refreshed my memory since this thread came out). I did the same for the new icatraining system. From the videos, the main difference I see is the icatraining system puts a circle under the ball (which I like a lot). The projection pro billiards system only puts a number under the ball (no circle). This would lead to less repeatable ball placement it seems.

The Ica system also allows you to draw lines, tangent lines, follow lines, add text, etc. Just like the old cuetable diagramming tool did. While I think that would be super useful for an instructor to generate new material for his students, I think it would be limited use for a student who wants to do a WWYD thread from here, or break a rack and mark the balls to play the same layout over and over.

4) The user interface on both systems seems the same. Its a menu driven system. I don't know if that is a function of the computer hardware they both share, or the software each respective developer wrote.

5) I was also worried about the projection pro billiards system last year, that it is 1 programmer working on it, and he may decide to quit. Now, with the ICA system, its the same situation. One programmer, and one instructor. These guys might realize there is only a handful of people that will buy any of these systems, and not develop further, because its not worth their time.

6. That brings us back to the ICA and cost. It is 600, plus 300 for a used projector on eBay. Plus 25 for the mounting hardware (it comes with the keyboard/mouse/cables). That takes us to 950. That is a tough pill to swallow, when 550 looks like it will do almost the same thing.

7. Now that we have competition, I hope they will both improve their systems.

8. Oh, and content. The projectionprobilliards you can buy the instruction add-on from the instructor for ICA for just $30. So you will get his drills anyway. *Edit, I just checked the projectionprobilliards site, and now I can't find this add-on. Either I lost where it is, or the instructor blocked it since he has his own product now. 100% it was there 3 days ago.


YMMV:)
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I have almost the same thoughts as you. But when I saw the system Bob Jewitt mentioned in this link.....

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JOY-IPOOL-PROJECTION-The-leader-of_60619907108.html

With the camera that recognizes the table and adjusts with real time object/cue ball training.
Unbelievable.
The price is unbelievable too. But it shows just where this technology can go when utilized at its full potential.

The way I see it is, wait 3 years for a better system to come out while using donuts and upgrade. Or spend the thousand bucks, and use it for three years and then upgrade. If you use it 500 times then you paid 2 bucks a pop to train.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I have almost the same thoughts as you. But when I saw the system Bob Jewitt mentioned in this link.....

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JOY-IPOOL-PROJECTION-The-leader-of_60619907108.html

With the camera that recognizes the table and adjusts with real time object/cue ball training.
Unbelievable.
The price is unbelievable too. But it shows just where this technology can go when utilized at its full potential.

The way I see it is, wait 3 years for a better system to come out while using donuts and upgrade. Or spend the thousand bucks, and use it for three years and then upgrade. If you use it 500 times then you paid 2 bucks a pop to train.
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Not really. The projector is still worth about 2/3 of retail plus the system. So much less.
 
The Mother Drills are all you need, Mike! LOL Hope your practice is coming along well! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

GodinSession said:
I too have the PPB system. I am very interested in this new system as it is not easy to create your own drills with PPB.
Are there lots of drills that it comes with?
Please tell more about what upgrades it does over the PPB system.
I did email the developer. Thanks for getting word out on this system...
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Denwhit was our 17th customer and robin dreyer was in our basement learning how to steal a great idea. and now the two of them are in business together, for a lot more money and not as many features. but some of the ones they do have they stole from us. Brilliant fellows
 
mjflanman32 said:
Denwhit was our 17th customer and robin dreyer was in our basement learning how to steal a great idea. and now the two of them are in business together, for a lot more money and not as many features. but some of the ones they do have they stole from us. Brilliant fellows
Click to expand...

Robin wanted to work with you, flew out to your house but found out you will not work on the system. He has been begging you to upgrade the system with modifications for over a 1.5 years and you wouldn't do it. So, with that in mind, he made a better one.
 
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mjflanman32 said:
Denwhit was our 17th customer and robin dreyer was in our basement learning how to steal a great idea. and now the two of them are in business together, for a lot more money and not as many features. but some of the ones they do have they stole from us. Brilliant fellows
Click to expand...

I am a customer and do not receive any compensation. I was a customer of yours but you would not improve the system.
 
Not good if true. Hopefully you properly documented all of your ideas, intellectual property can be protected. If so, you should have legal recourse. Hope it gets resolved to the satisfaction of all.
 
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