Break cues-a discussion-comments welcome

W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As the title says…….been thinking about these lately. In every room on tournament night are 30-50 players, in my experience mostly c or cplus players-I consider this players around 500-575ish Fargo type guys/gals who as a general rule probably won’t run one rack of 9 ball all night, myself included.
just as a point of reference, I’ve been around the game a long time having been in rooms with top pros from the 80’s and then to- pros recent. I’ve spent most of my time around these average/slightly above average players, never been around ball bangers/league players much.
to the point, seems everyone has to have a break cue-I get it that hard working folks are free to buy what they want (I do )-but what’s the point? Really?
 
Break cue does two things:
Keeps your playing cue tip from hardening and/or wearing out too fast.
Theoretically gives your break more power. IMO this mainly comes from the harder tips used, although there is a case to be made for stiffer shafts etc.

Some people like those super soft layered tips, like Kamui and the like, which cost 30 dollars for just the tip. Breaking with it will harden and wear out such a tip fast. It won't be soft for long...If you use a hard cue tip, I think I'd rather get break lessons instead of investing in a cue for the same money. I'm a big believer in practise, techique and getting lessons. Others here are not.

If you're playing 9/10/8 ball the break is a huge part of the games, and you break hard quite often in the course of a playing session. You probably should consider a break cue at some point in time or at least use a house cue for breaking. Some break relatively softly in 9 ball, even with the new break rules, still it doesn't hurt to have a break cue for the days when that doesn't work. The same goes for the 8 ball 2. ball break. Good to be able to smash the front ball when that break doesn't work.

If you can't run a rack, a break cue won't help you do that. The problem is in your patterns, your execution of those patterns and plain missing too much. Obviously an open table with few balls touching will theoretically make it easier to run out, but then again, if you can't run the balls right, you won't be able even then.
 
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Texas Carom Club said:
You don't feel like a 550 Fargo will run one rack of 9ball on a given night?
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All I can tell u is what I see…….last night in my local room, on 6 7 foot diamonds, there was a 34 player race to 5 tournament. They occur on a regular basis there ( 5 minutes from my home ) and in several other rooms less than 1 hour-basically the same group of 100 or so players on any given night. I attended last night and watch the other rooms on stream quite a lot. As a general rule, there are very few break and runs among these players. I don’t have full statistics, yet I feel certain it’s less than 5 break and runs with 34 players-race to 5-double elimination-if it happens, it’s always the higher cplus players for sure. I’m gonna pay more attention moving forward. Do you find 550ish players running out often where you live? Thx
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Break cue does two things:
Keeps your playing cue tip from hardening and/or wearing out too fast.
Theoretically gives your break more power. IMO this mainly comes from the harder tips used, although there is a case to be made for stiffer shafts etc.

Some people like those super soft layered tips, like Kamui and the like, which cost 30 dollars for just the tip. Breaking with it will harden and wear out such a tip fast. It won't be soft for long...If you use a hard cue tip, I think I'd rather get break lessons instead of investing in a cue for the same money. I'm a big believer in practise, techique and getting lessons. Others here are not.

If you're playing 9/10/8 ball the break is a huge part of the games, and you break hard quite often in the course of a playing session. You probably should consider a break cue at some point in time or at least use a house cue for breaking. Some break relatively softly in 9 ball, even with the new break rules, still it doesn't hurt to have a break cue for the days when that doesn't work. The same goes for the 8 ball 2. ball break. Good to be able to smash the front ball when that break doesn't work.

If you can't run a rack, a break cue won't help you do that. The problem is in your patterns, your execution of those patterns and plain missing too much. Obviously an open table with few balls touching will theoretically make it easier to run out, but then again, if you can't run the balls right, you won't be able even then.
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Thx for replying
 
white1 said:
All I can tell u is what I see…….last night in my local room, on 6 7 foot diamonds, there was a 34 player race to 5 tournament. They occur on a regular basis there ( 5 minutes from my home ) and in several other rooms less than 1 hour-basically the same group of 100 or so players on any given night. I attended last night and watch the other rooms on stream quite a lot. As a general rule, there are very few break and runs among these players. I don’t have full statistics, yet I feel certain it’s less than 5 break and runs with 34 players-race to 5-double elimination-if it happens, it’s always the higher cplus players for sure. I’m gonna pay more attention moving forward. Do you find 550ish players running out often where you live? Thx
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I'm 500 and have (generally) atleast one bnr each night be it practice or in league,

Today's sparring session I had 2
Playing 8ball

And they have become much more frequent due to my break cue, I just get much better spreads because the hard tip helps most of us get a much better break than our playing tip does.
 
Texas Carom Club said:
I'm 500 and have (generally) atleast one bnr each night be it practice or in league,

Today's sparring session I had 2
Playing 8ball

And they have become much more frequent due to my break cue, I just get much better spreads because the hard tip helps most of us get a much better break than our playing tip does.
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Interesting-answers like yours are exactly why I posted-I’m very open minded to the thought of owning a break cue…
 
white 1, Howdy;

I consider myself to be "average". I had a shaft made for an old Dufferin a few years back.
Hasn't made much difference in my break, has prolonged the life of my tips on other cues.
The folks I play with, most of'em, weren't born when I started playing. Not many in my age
bracket still play. I did play APA for a few years in the 00's but, again, I was one of the old
fellas that was playin'.

I feel I play better with a hard tip, so, when I first put a new one on I'll 'practice' my break
for about an hour then trim of any mushrooming then give it a fine burnish. They do fine
for me about that point. I've even done that with a few of pooldawg8's milkduds but didn't
have any mushrooming to trim. chuckle, Them are some kinda good tips.

Of course, this is all personal preference and your mileage will differ from mine for the simple
reason being, you ain't me.

Hope you find the answer that fits your question. Sometimes it takes awhile, other times it's
like gettin' hit inna face with a fish. Sudden and abrupt like.

hank
 
The old argument for break cues is get a heavy or light one.
I've had both and for me I get more speed with a light one.
I had an app on my phone and on a 9 foot table my break speed was 20 MPH or so, and I'm 75 years old.
And just for reference I find 9 ball on a 7 foot table (Diamond,not a Valley slop bucket) to be boring because it's too easy.
 
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I bought a break cue many years ago (Lucasi Big Beaulah II) because I wanted to have a better, faster, more powerful break.
My break MAY be a little stronger from the cue with the super hard tip, but the reason I KEEP using the break cue all these years later is that I like a consistent tip on my playing cue. They last MUCH MUCH longer when you don't break with them. My Tiger tip lasted several years. I just replaced it with a G2 Medium that I am pleased with also. About a year in with it and it still plays and looks like it did the day I shaped it and chalked it for the first time.
 
white1 said:
All I can tell u is what I see…….last night in my local room, on 6 7 foot diamonds, there was a 34 player race to 5 tournament. They occur on a regular basis there ( 5 minutes from my home ) and in several other rooms less than 1 hour-basically the same group of 100 or so players on any given night. I attended last night and watch the other rooms on stream quite a lot. As a general rule, there are very few break and runs among these players. I don’t have full statistics, yet I feel certain it’s less than 5 break and runs with 34 players-race to 5-double elimination-if it happens, it’s always the higher cplus players for sure. I’m gonna pay more attention moving forward. Do you find 550ish players running out often where you live? Thx
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Here‘s what FargoRate says…

600Has run three-in-a-row multiple times and maybe four-in-a row a time or two. High Run in 14.1 of 50-60. There are generally around 30 players at this level per million population
500A good local league player. Runs out first time at the table in about 5% of the games. Close to the median of players in the FargoRate system

So yep, I would expect a well established 550 to run out several times in the course of an evening. Especially on a bar box. The studs around here notwithstanding, a 550 gets around the table pretty well.

I suspect that if you have a 34 player tournament, race to five double elimination, and there aren’t more than five BR’s on a bar box, we’re not talking about 550 level players…

Break cues may be a bit overrated for most people when you can pull something off the wall if you’d rather not break with your play cue. Having said that, I like mine and think that it does improve my break, even if just marginally.
 
I used to have one .gave it up 25 years ago . I maintain my own tips so never worried about that aspect . I did have a chip in a pre cat 314 ferrule that the folks at Predator refused to do anything about .
 
I went with a three piece break/jump with canvas phenolic one piece tip/ferrule

That way I can use a sleek 2x2 case and not have to carry cue luggage around all weekend at a tournament.
 
The break cue for me is mostly about not wearing out my playing cue tip.
It has a phenolic tip, same one since I bought it back in 2006.

As for the FargoRate comment.
550 to 575 break and run most of the time, I know. That's me.
The 500 to say 520 ish, maybe 1 in 20 in my league.
 
white1 said:
All I can tell u is what I see…….last night in my local room, on 6 7 foot diamonds, there was a 34 player race to 5 tournament. They occur on a regular basis there ( 5 minutes from my home ) and in several other rooms less than 1 hour-basically the same group of 100 or so players on any given night. I attended last night and watch the other rooms on stream quite a lot. As a general rule, there are very few break and runs among these players. I don’t have full statistics, yet I feel certain it’s less than 5 break and runs with 34 players-race to 5-double elimination-if it happens, it’s always the higher cplus players for sure. I’m gonna pay more attention moving forward. Do you find 550ish players running out often where you live? Thx
Click to expand...

A break cue is not to get more break and runs, it won't help with pocketing balls on the break either.
It's to get possibly a bit more speed for a weak breaking player, keep the playing tip/shaft in shape for playing and it's for easier jump shots especially if it breaks down to a shorted cue. While I don't think people need a break cue to get a good break, when using the newer LD shafts it's a good idea due to the LD shafts having thinner and lighter shafts and ferrules at the end that can crack easier. House cue as a break cue is just fine till you get to the top 10% of players and match situation. When I'm traveling I don't bring a break cue with me, even when I'm looing for tournaments to play in during my trips, but I tend not to break with my playing cue either.

A 500+ Fargo is past C rating, those would be in the 400s. A 550 Fargo can certainly run out at least once a night. I am about exactly a 550 and have done multiple run outs in tournaments and leagues, not just per night but generally can get to one a race to 7 on average. I would rank my game as a strong B+ on average dipping into A- when I'm relaxed and not goofing around with trying shots just to see if I can make them LOL
 
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A break cue should do two things, have better energy transfer than your playing cue, and be lighter than your playing cue (in my opinion of course). This typically will utilize a hard tip which has the additional benefit of less tip maintenance for your playing cue.

Is a break cue necessary? Absolutely not. Is a jump cue necessary? Nope. How about your own playing cue? Not really, a house cue from your local pool hall will be more then sufficient for most.

What kind of car to you drive, versus what can get you from place to place for cheaper?
 
mattb said:
I know guys that are totally terrible at golf but they still own all the clubs. Why should it be different in pool?
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Well, the first thing that comes to mind is golf clubs are usually sold as a set whereas a cue stands alone.
Then each of the clubs is different in loft and there are a bunch of different wedges you can add & other
specialty clubs but in pool it doesn’t work that way. You can own more than one cue but it’s not necessary.

And you can also break with that cue too. So in pool, you could have a playing cue, break cue and jump cue.
In golf, you can have a assortment of different clubs in your bag as long as the number does not exceed 14.
But in golf, you just can’t play the course with just a putter, driver or any one club. In pool, you only need 1 cue.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Break cue does two things:
Keeps your playing cue tip from hardening and/or wearing out too fast.
Theoretically gives your break more power. IMO this mainly comes from the harder tips used, although there is a case to be made for stiffer shafts etc.

Some people like those super soft layered tips, like Kamui and the like, which cost 30 dollars for just the tip. Breaking with it will harden and wear out such a tip fast. It won't be soft for long...If you use a hard cue tip, I think I'd rather get break lessons instead of investing in a cue for the same money. I'm a big believer in practise, techique and getting lessons. Others here are not.

If you're playing 9/10/8 ball the break is a huge part of the games, and you break hard quite often in the course of a playing session. You probably should consider a break cue at some point in time or at least use a house cue for breaking. Some break relatively softly in 9 ball, even with the new break rules, still it doesn't hurt to have a break cue for the days when that doesn't work. The same goes for the 8 ball 2. ball break. Good to be able to smash the front ball when that break doesn't work.

If you can't run a rack, a break cue won't help you do that. The problem is in your patterns, your execution of those patterns and plain missing too much. Obviously an open table with few balls touching will theoretically make it easier to run out, but then again, if you can't run the balls right, you won't be able even then.
Click to expand...

Good post.

Remember the old days when real good players would break on a 9 footer with old felt. They would hit it hard AND it was with their playing cue.

I always smile when I see someone grab their break cue and get up there the hit a break a little harder than lag speed. Especially for the 2nd ball break playing 8 ball.
 
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