Break rule.. thought

M

Mowem down

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching SVB vs Alcano ( on a Accu-stat dvd :thumbup: ) and this came to mind.
The BCA does not count the break as a skilled shot. So breaking the rack is just a way of getting the balls into play. If its open after the break, if you make a ball or not it should still be your turn to shot....

I hate to use the word luck because I'm not looking to star fire fight about the luck in pool. However I Dont get why a game that takes such a high skill set does not have the rulz ( like golf ) in place to keep the LUCK to a min.

The break thougt came after watching Alcano sit in his chair for a few racks then come to the table and run out like he had ben playing for hours just to break, not make a ball, and go back and sit down. Thats not right the break is not a skilled shot, its still his turn, he ended the last rack on a skilled shot he should have to make a mistake for his turn to be over...
 
The way these guys break, it definitely IS a skill shot. For me, it's a luck shot.:D
 
This is a good observation that tournaments directors should think about. However with the caliber of play from the pros the matches wouldn't take long. Many will run the set out with this rule in play. They would have to extend the number of games in the matches.

This rule would equalize the matches for the players that don't have the big break. Players like Cesar Morales would love this rule.
 
Maybe the balls should be rolling around in a hopper & the winner of the last game, pushes a button to release the balls. When they all stop, the umpire places the first object ball on the spot & the player at the table gets to shoot from the kitchen.

This idea would rid us all of having to develop a Break Shot. Ha!Ha!Ha!
 
Would you please explain your statement?

I know you are talking 9 ball, but what about all the other games? 14.1 (that would be a joke), One Pocket? (same joke), 8 Ball?

Where in the BCA rule book does it define a 'skilled shot'?

And if you really think the break shot isn't a Skill shot why did SVB beat RA?


Mowem down said:
The BCA does not count the break as a skilled shot. So breaking the rack is just a way of getting the balls into play. If its open after the break, if you make a ball or not it should still be your turn to shot....
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Happens in every sport

Mowem down said:
I was watching SVB vs Alcano ( on a Accu-stat dvd :thumbup: ) and this came to mind.
The BCA does not count the break as a skilled shot. So breaking the rack is just a way of getting the balls into play. If its open after the break, if you make a ball or not it should still be your turn to shot....

I hate to use the word luck because I'm not looking to star fire fight about the luck in pool. However I Dont get why a game that takes such a high skill set does not have the rulz ( like golf ) in place to keep the LUCK to a min.

The break thougt came after watching Alcano sit in his chair for a few racks then come to the table and run out like he had ben playing for hours just to break, not make a ball, and go back and sit down. Thats not right the break is not a skilled shot, its still his turn, he ended the last rack on a skilled shot he should have to make a mistake for his turn to be over...
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He didn't make a ball on the break. You must pocket a ball to continue that's it. What if you are playing baseball and you hit a screaming line drive and the SS jumps three feet in the air and catches it. You did nothing wrong but you are out.

Or you are Luis Gonazalez and you hit a broken bat fist shot that normally would be caught but instead you are the world series hero of 2001. Every game has luck. All you can do is execute to the best your ability and live with the results.
 
I like this idea in 8ball and 9ball. I actually suggested it to some of the 'rule writters' a couple of years ago with absolutely no response...not even a "bad idea" comment.

In order for someone to call the break shot a skill shot, imho, they need to call which ball is going in which pocket...or at least be able to tell me where the cue ball is going to end up (of course, you can plan for the cue ball to end up in the middle of the table, but if you don't get lucky and pocket a ball, you're done).

On the other hand...if the table were yours after the break, you'd probably hit the rack with a little more control (rather than just blasting away as hard as you can) so that you can continue your turn with a decent shot. Granted, you'd see a lot more run outs, but everyone would have the same chance to run out...not just break hard, not get luck to make a ball, then go sit down while your opponent runs the rack. You would need to require alternate breaks also.

I believe this would open up each rack for more offense. Isn't that what most spectators want to see...offense?

Anyway, I agree with the OP's idea. It'll probably never happen, but that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

L8R...Ken
 
I still have to think that if someone can do something better than someone else, it is skill, not luck. It certainly would be interesting though.
 
easy-e said:
I still have to think that if someone can do something better than someone else, it is skill, not luck. It certainly would be interesting though.
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I think easy hit it right on the head. Regardless of the BCA rules, the break IS a skill shot. Otherwise, some guys wouldn't do it better than others. Everybody just doesn't take the time to practice it like they should, imo.
 
The break is a skilled shot, players have found ways to consistently make balls. It just so happens tournament rule makers are relentless in their attempts to make it a luck shot....
 
If you didn't have to make a ball on the break to continue the inning, every pro would just punch open the rack with medium speed (with the goal of no balls touching and the 1 sliding up next to the side pocket of course) and run out over and over and over and...

...kinda like Corey did at the US Open in 2001 when he would make the corner ball 90+% of the time with the 1 hanging in the side. No one could touch him because they left the break up to the gods.

If you think 9B is a trivial game now....
 
Should we make 9B a continuous game...you leave the 9 on the table and break open the stack like 14.1?
 
Why can't we just play by the rules in the book. I've never heard of a local rule that didn't simply shift the luck from the shooter to the bench. For instance the other day I shot a ball straight down the rail into the corner pocket but nicked another ball that was about 1.2" from that long rail. I lost my turn because I didn't call the kiss even though kissing that ball made it less likely not more likely for the shot to be made. I was lucky it went in, not lucky I got the kiss.

I never argue about rules. Just don't understand why we have to play rules that make the game harder than a World Tournament.

Next thing: It's not fair for you to run out cause that would be unlucky for me. OOPS, Sorry we were talking about eliminating luck with rules, not eliminating unluck with rules. That was a different thread.
 
3kushn said:
Why can't we just play by the rules in the book. I've never heard of a local rule that didn't simply shift the luck from the shooter to the bench. For instance the other day I shot a ball straight down the rail into the corner pocket but nicked another ball that was about 1.2" from that long rail. I lost my turn because I didn't call the kiss even though kissing that ball made it less likely not more likely for the shot to be made. I was lucky it went in, not lucky I got the kiss.

I never argue about rules. Just don't understand why we have to play rules that make the game harder than a World Tournament.

Next thing: It's not fair for you to run out cause that would be unlucky for me. OOPS, Sorry we were talking about eliminating luck with rules, not eliminating unluck with rules. That was a different thread.
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You win the coveted "weirdest post of the day not made by Cuejunky" award! See easy-e for your prize ;)
 
muttley76 said:
You win the coveted "weirdest post of the day not made by Cuejunky" award! See easy-e for your prize ;)
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Maybe weird but what if I skimed the side rail going in. Is that considered a bank shot and therefore since I didn't call the rail I loose my turn?

If you make a ball you shoot. If you want to call the pocket and it goes in the pocket called you shoot. Simple. All the other home made rules are designed to put the shooter in his chair and cause all the problems. Take a look at this change the rules as we go thread for fun http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=127531

Guess I should just stay on the pocketless tables where a kiss counts even in a World Championship match.
 
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mosconiac said:
Should we make 9B a continuous game...you leave the 9 on the table and break open the stack like 14.1?
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LOL In your scenario you would need two nine balls on the table. If the last ball on the table being the nine ball was missed then there would be two nine balls on the table.
 
3kushn said:
Maybe weird but what if I skimed the side rail going in. Is that considered a bank shot and therefore since I didn't call the rail I loose my turn?

If you make a ball you shoot. If you want to call the pocket and it goes in the pocket called you shoot. Simple. All the other home made rules are designed to put the shooter in his chair and cause all the problems.

Guess I should just stay on the pocketless tables where a kiss counts even in a World Championship match.
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I guess more than anything I am just curious. What rules should people go by BCA? WPA? To be honest, ball in pocket should always be enough, imo. Having said that, the situation you describes is kind of flawed. If you got a kiss, the reasoning of other rules is that you would have missed the ball if you hadn't. Although I find it a bit of a hassle to call everything, it is the same for both players, and therefore, little more than an annoyance.And to the best of my knowledge, no major rule set requires calling of the short rail, either for kicks, or shots. To me the basic issue is that there isn't one widely accepted rule set. And maybe there shouldn't be. Some of the rules for WPA were screwed up so bad that most TD's (in the southeastern US, at least) refused to use them. I guess you just cannot keep us all happy all the time. :p
 
muttley76 said:
You win the coveted "weirdest post of the day not made by Cuejunky" award! See easy-e for your prize ;)
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Here you go:
 

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easy-e said:
Here you go:
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Thanks easy! When the day comes that Cuejunky comes back and takes all the followers with him, you will surely be amongst the chosen!
 
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