Break shot question!

And I remember Billy Hodgkins...

being bored with a typical high run...and with a long ash cigarette dangling from his lips...would whack the object ball into the corner pocket...and jump the cue ball into the center of the pack to spread the balls...wise guy...
 
Great posts and advice, folks! Since I got you on board, let me ask another break shot question. Which of the well known break shots give you the most trouble? For me, it's when the break ball is on or near the foot rail or the side rail and I'm sending the cue ball off the rail into the stack. I make the ball, but all too often I just find myself missing that blasted corner ball in one direction or the other. You all know the results of that! You miss the rack entirely or you end up ending your run with the cue stuck to the back of the pack. I honestly think its a psychological thing since I play the same shots as secondary break shots often and with precision. I suppose I just need to spend some quality time practicing my break shots in general and those shots in particular.

Thanks again for your input, and keep it coming!
 
VIProfessor said:
Great posts and advice, folks! Since I got you on board, let me ask another break shot question. Which of the well known break shots give you the most trouble? For me, it's when the break ball is on or near the foot rail or the side rail and I'm sending the cue ball off the rail into the stack. I make the ball, but all too often I just find myself missing that blasted corner ball in one direction or the other. You all know the results of that! You miss the rack entirely or you end up ending your run with the cue stuck to the back of the pack. I honestly think its a psychological thing since I play the same shots as secondary break shots often and with precision. I suppose I just need to spend some quality time practicing my break shots in general and those shots in particular.

Thanks again for your input, and keep it coming!
Click to expand...

Can I repeat your 'Great posts and advice', And add a 'good idea for
a thread' to you?

I have had similarly disapointing results on the off-the-rail brerak shots.
Often leaving the CB welded to the pack.
I've been working with a friend who, though a much better player
than I, is new to 14.1. We were watching the Dallas West tape<highly
recomended, BTW> and Dallas leaves a break off the foot rail. He
explains that on these shots you want to come into the rack at
a small angle - think glance off, not power thru.

I had mistakenly been thinking - thin cut brings you off the rail with
more speed. More speed equals better break.
Upon further review, it seems, the option that spreads the balls much
less, but leaves a shot, is much 'better' than the one that leaves
no shot.

Dale<expert in aproprition of other people's skills>
 
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There are really only a few break shots that I'd call 'standard'. I dunno if this is a standard one, but the one I hate most is the side rail break. You only use it when you screwed up. There's a fair chance of scratch. There's a fair chance of ending up in the kitchen. You have hit it pretty hard except from very steep missable angles... You often have to use some sidespin to control where it hits the stack and get a better result. Speed + sidespin + on the rail = pretty small, missable pocket.

A break I like that people are weirdly skeptical of is the side pocket break shot. Not the precise one seen in books where your OB is a bit above the head spot and the cueball is a bit below it... the one where the OB is 'straight in' the side and somewhat close to it, and the cueball is maybe in the kitchen. I find those can be hit really hard and are pretty easy to control. Supposedly there's a double chance of scratch there but I think you have to be pretty unlucky to do it.
 
Something I picked up along the years which most people use as a rule of thumb. If the natural weight of the cue ball is going towards the corner pocket off that corner ball, it's ok to use draw. When the weight of the cue ball is driving more towards the center of the table, follow will do just fine. Medium strength on both shots will do fine.
 
VIProfessor said:
...How would the experts play such a break shot?
Click to expand...
Hey Islander!

I've been studying just this type of situation very carefully the last few months. I haven't come to complete conclusions that I will share just yet since I still need to work things out. But I do have these thoughts to share:

1. Joe Tucker's break DVD discusses the 14.1 break shot a little bit. This is what got me started thinking about this.

2. You must be very aware of where the cue ball is contacting the pack. Especially the part of the ball (high/low/straight). I use this information to determine usage of follow, draw and speed.

3. An interesting way to test this is simpler than just setting up the break shot and hitting it several times. Just put the cue ball in the "ghost" position and shoot it soft to medium speed straight into the pack. This way your contact point is very accurate and you can see which way it goes. If you've never tried this, you'll be amazed at how little aiming difference results in completely opposite cue ball paths when you're shooting at crack of 2 balls!

4. I avoid break shots that look like the tangent line will go right between 2 balls. It's very hard to determine which it will hit first. Hit the top ball and you can scratch straight in the corner. Hit the bottom ball and...well you know what happens... kitchen. I'll set up for a different break shot if possible. If not, then I just completely chicken out and use a soft to medium speed. You might end your run but it'll be on your terms without a wide open table. Easier to play safe with a few balls loose and a close cue ball than a wide open 14 balls with the cue at the long end of the table. This is my answer to your original question.

5. Reading the tangent line is harder than people think when you're trying to be very accurate. Marking the table for ball positions is of course a must but use a very small mark. It's easy to be off by a quarter inch when you're placing a ball. It's also easy to misjudge where the 90 degrees is. I sometimes set up a marked break ball with no pack at all. Look at where you think you're cueball is going to go and then see if it really goes there. This works well when you put no draw or follow on so the cue path doesn't "bend". This practice will help you determine your pack ball contact allowing for better draw/follow/speed decisions.

And with all that said...take it for what you like...I'm just a 58 ball runner!

Andy
 
Ok alinco, sotp giving away my secrets.

To be brutaly honest, I hace not yet put much time into actual
practice. But have long felt that the start of understanding break shots
is to practice without-the-OB-breaks, much like what you described.

I guess I have more confidence in my ability to judge the CB contact
point. Maybe I will find it is more dificult than I thought.

IMHO - if the break ball is less than 6 inches from the pack, you should
be able to predict with good precision. Stay tuned.

To build a bit on your good idea, IMHO - dealing with clusters,
secondary break shots, is just as important. The same
shoot-the-CB-and-watch-what-happens aproach should give equally
good results.

I think most secondary breaks require a decision among three choices

1. glance off
2. power thru
3. pull back

1 and 2 are usually played with follow
3 is done with draw

Secondary break outs are, by nature, more comples than break shots.
I don't recall ever hearing anyone discuss a 'standard' secondary
break, but I feel there are such things, at least in concept.

Gaps, loose clusters, blocked paths, etc, etc. Many traps await
the unwary.

Dale (you-don't-NEED-a-break-ball-to-practice-break-shots) Pierce
 
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