Break Speed DISCUSSION

i'm 280 lbs . Break about 18mph. and make about 3 balls . one time i made 5 on the the break ,, at 18 , in a break contest ...
 
ENGLISH! said:
What exactly do you mean by a cut break. I proabably know it by another name and maybe then I might be able to help.
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A cut break usually begins near a side rail and is not hit square into the head ball. Rather, it is hit slightly off center with the goal of drawing the CB into the side rail and back near the middle of the table while pocketing the wing ball in the corner and bringing the one ball up table without making it so you have a shot to start your run with.

This break, along with variations on it, is the reason that some tournament rules enforce breaking from the box (at least a diamond away from the side rail), getting x number of balls across the middle of the table, and moving the rack so the nine is on the spot instead of the one. Under those rules, the wing ball isn't wired in the corner and it's not so easy to control the shape on the one ball.
 
CreeDo said:
I'm gonna keep a close eye on this thread for ideas, but I feel your pain joey. Your break sounds a lot like mine... 17.5 or so average, when I'm trying hard I barely hit twenty. In fact only a few times in my life have I gone over. So jealous of those who can do it without even trying. I've tried playing strictly to squat whitey, but at any speed where I have 100% control... if a ball doesn't fly directly into the hole, it's never going, because none of the balls have enough momentum to go more than a rail or two.

My current focus is on playing to make a specific ball, and that also seems very erratic. Even with the right equipment and a tight rack.

I keep hoping there's some trick that doesn't involve ridiculous hip thrusts to add 3mph or so to my break.
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Creedo,
This thread is providing some of the best advice on breaking that I have ever seen.

With each of these suggestions, there is the distinct possibility that we are currently not using all of them and it may only require one or two "techniques" (tricks) to move our speed up another 3 mph.

Just by trying to break harder, my break speed has moved from 15-16 to 17-18, so another couple of mph seems quite easily obtainable.

When I responded to Branpureza, I should have said that I agree that some people are born with fast-twitch muscles and that some people can, without extra effort or training, break at faster speeds than most people, but that by training with different techniques, equipment, exercise etc, anyone can increase their break speed by a few mph.

Anyway, this thread is providing many GREAT SUGGESTIONS for anyone to try. I know in the coming weeks and months, I will be trying most of them. It is also curious to me to wonder which technique will help my break speed the most. I believe that it may be different techniques for each of us. At this point, I am thinking that some of these techniques will combine to provide a better break speed.

As far as the video is concerned, there are lots of videos showing me playing pool but I don't know when I will be recording myself breaking but can visualize the benefit from doing so.

There is one thing that kind of puzzles me and that is the middle-table follow through that many players seem to do with consistency. I have trouble doing that but will be working on it in the future. If anyone has suggestions as to how to obtain that 24" follow through, please post. It seems that is one of the things that I seem to have difficulty doing. When I "think" I am following through 24", it almost feels like I am doing so at a slower speed and with less control. I think the control can come with time. Actually I experimented with the long follow through last night competing with a friend but without the BreakRak and radar so I don't know about the slower speed thinking. It might just be in my head. When I get back to using the BreakRak, I know it won't lie, except I remember that one time, I hit 47 mph. :thud:
 
Look out sweaters.................

naji said:
branpureza said:
I think if we could have a video of your break it would be a lot easier to suggest adjustments that might help you increase your speed. That way we could see your grip hand and bridge position, bridge length, body motion, stuff like that...

For above you are 100% correct

Honestly I don't really think you're going to be able to improve that much... maybe a couple miles an hour. I feel like it's something you are (to some degree) born with and develop early on... kind of if you don't have that sort of stroke after 10, 20, 30+ years of playing you'll never have it.

The above statement you are dead wrong! sorry. If one just break while standing up and long follow through (cue tip almost reaches half the table), loose grib at cue, hard break tip, long bridge, about 18 oz cue, one will get at least 50% increase in break speed compared to break with shoulder all the way down, or slightly raised if not more with 1st shot (watch you hand/knuckles), with practice you will hit CB solid.
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A 50% increase in break speed would be over the moon for me. :grin: I'm looking to go from my current average of 17-18 to 20-22 mph.
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you have to look at these things and try and pick out bits and pieces that you can relate to breaking. Great breaking is technical. Power comes from the hips and rotation. In hitting a ball, you load up on the back foot and you explode through with the hips, the faster your hip rotation the faster you will break. I just put those videos up to get you thinking, pool seems to be pretty ignorant compared to other sports and any tom,dick and harry call themselves instructors from what i see on here.

I have friend and we have worked out together and i can lift 4 times as much as him but he breaks at 25mph according to the break app and im at 21 mph and i can see his rotation when he breaks, very fast. i an also happy breaking at 21 mph and not to many people i see can break harder than me.
 
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Has anyone tried the items in the videos I posted? I'd like to hear if you've been able to advance your break speed & productivity with them.

I should note that I take no credit for the development of the items I posted, I learned them by observing some of the best breakers in the world. They are the ones that put in the hours & hours of practice to get where they are.
 
you can show all the videos you want, but you have understand exactly what there doing that generates that power. I bet the players themselves dont really know why they break hard. Find a baseball hitting coach and let him analyze your break, i bet he can help, They know all about generating power,loading up,rotation,etc :) This is how I figure things out :)
 
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Joey, I only have 3 things that I think are key to a good powerful break.

1. Always stay loose.
I watch some players get real tense or tight when they're trying to break real hard. The truth is that, as the player we can't break "hard". We can only break "fast". Tension kills speed.

2. Pause at the end of the back stroke.
This really goes along with number 1. Pausing at the back lets all the muscles pulling back stop and release so all the muscles that go forward can take over without having to fight against anything.

3. Follow through as flat as possible.
One of the best tips I've received for control on the break is to follow through without ever letting the tip touch the table. If you can do this, then you can't hit down too much on the cue ball and you'll keep it from jumping off the front ball so much. If you're cue ball goes in the air, you not only run the risk of flying it off the table, but at the very least you lose a lot of power or energy. You can hit 50mph, but if it doesn't go into the pack it doesn't do much good.

Hope that helps!
 
mosconiac said:
Has anyone tried the items in the videos I posted? I'd like to hear if you've been able to advance your break speed & productivity with them.

I should note that I take no credit for the development of the items I posted, I learned them by observing some of the best breakers in the world. They are the ones that put in the hours & hours of practice to get where they are.
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I plan to list many of these items and to try them. Organizing all of these great tips will be a chore. Thanks for sharing the videos.
 
OB BREAK cue....

RBC said:
Joey, I only have 3 things that I think are key to a good powerful break.

1. Always stay loose.
I watch some players get real tense or tight when they're trying to break real hard. The truth is that, as the player we can't break "hard". We can only break "fast". Tension kills speed.

2. Pause at the end of the back stroke.
This really goes along with number 1. Pausing at the back lets all the muscles pulling back stop and release so all the muscles that go forward can take over without having to fight against anything.

3. Follow through as flat as possible.
One of the best tips I've received for control on the break is to follow through without ever letting the tip touch the table. If you can do this, then you can't hit down too much on the cue ball and you'll keep it from jumping off the front ball so much. If you're cue ball goes in the air, you not only run the risk of flying it off the table, but at the very least you lose a lot of power or energy. You can hit 50mph, but if it doesn't go into the pack it doesn't do much good.

Hope that helps!
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We have "tense-up the muscles", we have "loosen-up the muscles". What to do what to do? I'll try both.

BTW, I did notice that the winner of the BIG Ten Ball TOURNAMENT in Atlanta, GA a week ago was using an OB Break Cue. As he crushed the balls on every break, making balls fly in from everywhere, I asked him about the OB Break Cue and he said he had better control with it than with other break cues. :grin: I only lose 7-1 but others took a beating from him including Johnny Archer in the finals, 7-3 if I am not mistaken.

Thanks to everyone for the fine tips.

Who's got time to condense all of these tips?
 
Matt said:
A cut break usually begins near a side rail and is not hit square into the head ball. Rather, it is hit slightly off center with the goal of drawing the CB into the side rail and back near the middle of the table while pocketing the wing ball in the corner and bringing the one ball up table without making it so you have a shot to start your run with.

This break, along with variations on it, is the reason that some tournament rules enforce breaking from the box (at least a diamond away from the side rail), getting x number of balls across the middle of the table, and moving the rack so the nine is on the spot instead of the one. Under those rules, the wing ball isn't wired in the corner and it's not so easy to control the shape on the one ball.
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Full rack, same thing, spot ball in opposite side pocket. Hit the one or spot ball as though you are hitting it straight from the side pocket from which you are shooting near the rail @ 2nd. diamond. The cue has a tendancy to scratch in the corner. So, draw it to the side rail with low rail side english. Snapshot9 will probably confirm but Mr. Lee probably won't. He thinks it's all about speed.(I could make a diparaging comment but I won't) PS If spot ball misses down table (rack side) hit it a little more full. If it missses up table cut it a little more. PSS We called this the 'soft spot break' it works better on hall tables than coin. I measured a few coin tables & they were not exactly 2 to 1 lenght to width. That's probably why but it still is makable but harder to figure the adjustment.
 
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JoeyA said:
We have "tense-up the muscles", we have "loosen-up the muscles". What to do what to do? I'll try both.

BTW, I did notice that the winner of the BIG Ten Ball TOURNAMENT in Atlanta, GA a week ago was using an OB Break Cue. As he crushed the balls on every break, making balls fly in from everywhere, I asked him about the OB Break Cue and he said he had better control with it than with other break cues. :grin: I only lose 7-1 but others took a beating from him including Johnny Archer in the finals, 7-3 if I am not mistaken.

Thanks to everyone for the fine tips.

Who's got time to condense all of these tips?
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Loose before you pull the trigger. Tension is bad, but when you pull the triger they will tense up. If you can get them to respond from the ground up adding power / speed as they go ending with the wrist flip extention well thru the cue ball, I think you have probably maximized your biomechanics. Then: consider your weapon of choice.
 
Since cues have been brought into the discussion...yes, LD cues help on the break too. I've mis-hit breaks with my BK2 (where the CB spins endlessly afterwards) and still made decent contact with the OB. Would I have been using a HD (lol) shaft, I would have caught even less of the OB and put even less energy into it.

Also, I've been playing with the speed app & noticed a loss of speed when mis-hitting the break (striking the CB off-center). Although this is an obvious statement, the degree of speed loss is eye-opening. I would lose 5-6mph! Therefore, less CB speed & less OB impact (glancing hit).
 
naji said:
branpureza said:
I think if we could have a video of your break it would be a lot easier to suggest adjustments that might help you increase your speed. That way we could see your grip hand and bridge position, bridge length, body motion, stuff like that...

For above you are 100% correct

Honestly I don't really think you're going to be able to improve that much... maybe a couple miles an hour. I feel like it's something you are (to some degree) born with and develop early on... kind of if you don't have that sort of stroke after 10, 20, 30+ years of playing you'll never have it.

The above statement you are dead wrong! sorry. If one just break while standing up and long follow through (cue tip almost reaches half the table), loose grib at cue, hard break tip, long bridge, about 18 oz cue, one will get at least 50% increase in break speed compared to break with shoulder all the way down, or slightly raised if not more with 1st shot (watch you hand/knuckles), with practice you will hit CB solid.
Click to expand...

You jogged my mind, I wonder how long it takes for the cue ball to reach its' maximum velocity. You might think closer to rack is better. However I don't know if it will reach maximum speed. It might be better from the rail to allow time to reach max speed but that's also more time & distance to go off line. If max speed is not reached from the force put on the ball, does is it transfered to the rack or is it spent in rebound. I don't know the answer. Where's the physics expert?
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ENGLISH! said:
naji said:
You jogged my mind, I wonder how long it takes for the cue ball to reach its' maximum velocity. You might think closer to rack is better. However I don't know if it will reach maximum speed. It might be better from the rail to allow time to reach max speed but that's also more time & distance to go off line. If max speed is not reached from the force put on the ball, does is it transfered to the rack or is it spent in rebound. I don't know the answer. Where's the physics expert?
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Maximum speed is accomplished as soon as the cue ball leaves the tip.

Do you happen to have a video of yourself breaking so we can see how all this awesome information you've given us is translated into your break?
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