Breaking 9-ball on bar table - Spotting location?

[JMASTERJ]

Hey guys... so I know what they do in the pros on a 9' table, but on a bar table, most likely 7', where do you spot the cue on the break? Are we trying to make the same type of break as the pros, meaning spot it near the forward diamond about 2 inches away and then try to make the 1 in the side and leave the cue around the middle of the table?

I have tried some variations because of the difference in ratio of distances from the cue to the rack to the pockets, but I cant get a consistent spot to make that 1, and yes, the rack sucks a lot because I am playing 1-2-3's mostly (APA rating), and I dont really check the rack because I think its rude even though my manager said I should LOL.

I see many 5-6's tee off near the middle of the table and get an edge ball in on the break, I hardly see anyone break from near the bumper.

Anyone have a video or diagram on where a pro would spot the cue on a bar table? (will have to simply ignore the rack and imperfect table variables)

 

[Mr. Bond]

Have you tried searching for "racking secrets" on YouTube?

Some of that self-service education comes in handy

 

[JMASTERJ]

Have you tried searching for "racking secrets" on YouTube?

Some of that self-service education comes in handy

You misunderstood my question. Racking secrets have nothing to do with what I am asking. (unless u r referring to whatever that guy is selling)

And yes I did look at about 20 videos, none answered what I need.

 

[Dimeball]

Hey guys... so I know what they do in the pros on a 9' table, but on a bar table, most likely 7', where do you spot the cue on the break? Are we trying to make the same type of break as the pros, meaning spot it near the forward diamond about 2 inches away and then try to make the 1 in the side and leave the cue around the middle of the table?

I have tried some variations because of the difference in ratio of distances from the cue to the rack to the pockets, but I cant get a consistent spot to make that 1, and yes, the rack sucks a lot because I am playing 1-2-3's mostly (APA rating), and I dont really check the rack because I think its rude even though my manager said I should LOL.

I see many 5-6's tee off near the middle of the table and get an edge ball in on the break, I hardly see anyone break from near the bumper.

Anyone have a video or diagram on where a pro would spot the cue on a bar table? (will have to simply ignore the rack and imperfect table variables)

Today, often I see the pros not making the one, but purposely having it just miss the side which then sends it to the break area.They also are pulling the cue ball back to the middle half of the break area, this method provides a consistent opening shot after the break. The easiest way for me to achieve this is actually from the side rail. Dr. Cue has some references made at aiming through the one at the ball just behind the wing ball for a full hit, but I think that's when breaking in the box. The break shot takes a ton of practice to become consistent, I find that speed/acceleration is better than muscle. I find the best for me is when the cue ball pops up slightly and comes back a foot of two with control, feels great and provides the best results for me anyway... hope that helps.

 

[Black-Balled]

Given the fact that you claim the racks are crappy, i dont think there is an answer.

Just try to rack them the same on a given table, pay attention to whats happening and try different spots until you get the best result.
Then, the set will.be over and you move to another table...hopefully.

 

[mvp]

I did about 2 weeks worth of video on this a while back, what I discovered in slo mo was my cue ball would hit the rack after 2 bounces on a 9fter, on the 8fter I was landing about 1-4inches before the lead ball (good) breaking from either right side 1st diamond at head string or center table headstring. That being said I took my camera to my buddy's diamond 7fter and found I was off the table at impact again, long story short I now bridge off the rail to compensate for those 4inches so my cue ball is on the table at impact! The footage I had showed me, my scatter and cueball placement after impact was more repeatable and more important than where I broke from. And when I say the cueball is off the table, it was not noticeable until slo mo was used!!!!!! Some would say I over analyzed this but that's what happens when you got a table and no other hobbies lol. To the OP, I would record the cueball and see what's going on from your favorite break spots. You might find something better.

 

[Cornerman]

Hey guys... so I know what they do in the pros on a 9' table, but on a bar table, most likely 7', where do you spot the cue on the break? Are we trying to make the same type of break as the pros, meaning spot it near the forward diamond about 2 inches away and then try to make the 1 in the side and leave the cue around the middle of the table?

If the rules allow you to break however you want, provided you hit the 1-ball first (assuming you're playing 9-ball by 9-ball rules on a 7' table), then every professional I've watched play to make the corner (wing) ball, most often placing the cueball about where you're suggesting.

We just had the CSI 9-ball challenge, where they used a racking template. Most every every player broke from the side rail, but Corey Deuel was breaking just outside the box (one diamond in from the side rail) and hitting it sloooooooow. The wing ball still dribbled in, and the 1-ball would hang out by the side pocket for an easy out for him just about every time.

That's my observation, up close and personal.


Freddie <~~~ reality based

 

[JMASTERJ]

Today, often I see the pros not making the one, but purposely having it just miss the side which then sends it to the break area.They also are pulling the cue ball back to the middle half of the break area, this method provides a consistent opening shot after the break. The easiest way for me to achieve this is actually from the side rail. Dr. Cue has some references made at aiming through the one at the ball just behind the wing ball for a full hit, but I think that's when breaking in the box. The break shot takes a ton of practice to become consistent, I find that speed/acceleration is better than muscle. I find the best for me is when the cue ball pops up slightly and comes back a foot of two with control, feels great and provides the best results for me anyway... hope that helps.

In championship 9-ball (not 7' bar games) they try to make a corner on the far side and the 1 in the side always, and leave the cue around the middle. I am pretty sure it cannot be the same spot in the bar table, which is what I am asking.

I did about 2 weeks worth of video on this a while back, what I discovered in slo mo was my cue ball would hit the rack after 2 bounces on a 9fter, on the 8fter I was landing about 1-4inches before the lead ball (good) breaking from either right side 1st diamond at head string or center table headstring. That being said I took my camera to my buddy's diamond 7fter and found I was off the table at impact again, long story short I now bridge off the rail to compensate for those 4inches so my cue ball is on the table at impact! The footage I had showed me, my scatter and cueball placement after impact was more repeatable and more important than where I broke from. And when I say the cueball is off the table, it was not noticeable until slo mo was used!!!!!! Some would say I over analyzed this but that's what happens when you got a table and no other hobbies lol. To the OP, I would record the cueball and see what's going on from your favorite break spots. You might find something better.

So from your trial, did you find a location to spot the cue ball on a 7fter to "consistently" pocket the 1 on the side and maybe an extra corner? That spot is what I am looking for, I just dont play enough games to really have enough sample size to know for sure, hence my question.

If the rules allow you to break however you want, provided you hit the 1-ball first (assuming you're playing 9-ball by 9-ball rules on a 7' table), then every professional I've watched play to make the corner (wing) ball, most often placing the cueball about where you're suggesting.

We just had the CSI 9-ball challenge, where they used a racking template. Most every every player broke from the side rail, but Corey Deuel was breaking just outside the box (one diamond in from the side rail) and hitting it sloooooooow. The wing ball still dribbled in, and the 1-ball would hang out by the side pocket for an easy out for him just about every time.

That's my observation, up close and personal.

You've seen pros play on 7' tables? Yea I've had very little luck pocketing the 1 in the side, even though I know the racks are not great, in about 30-40 breaks now I think I pocketed the 1 maybe once hitting from about a ball away from the left diamond, so I am thinking that is just not the right spot on a 7'.

 

[mvp]

Right side, 1 diamond in on end rail but I was a little longer away cause I bridge off the rail.

 

[Nonyamuff]

I like 1 diamond in - 1 diamond over usually from the left side and bridging off the rail. The valley boxes we play on you don't have to smash the break to get 1 or 2 to fall while keeping the cue in the middle of the table. Just took a few weeks of minor adjustments to get the break where I like it on those tables.

 

[JMASTERJ]

Right side, 1 diamond in on end rail but I was a little longer away cause I bridge off the rail.

I like 1 diamond in - 1 diamond over usually from the left side and bridging off the rail. The valley boxes we play on you don't have to smash the break to get 1 or 2 to fall while keeping the cue in the middle of the table. Just took a few weeks of minor adjustments to get the break where I like it on those tables.

Sorry for this dumb question but I dont wanna assume, and make sure:

One diamond = distance between each diamond on the frame of the table, i.e., like 8 inches in from the middle diamond bumper edge or from the actual diamond spot?

This is what I am going after....

I'm not sure if this is a full size or 7' but I am asking about 7" only because I can see enough breaks from the pros on the full size tournaments to see exactly where is good for this result.

To me in this pic, the cue is slightly LESS than a diamond length away from the center diamond itself, and less than even half a diamond away from the edge of the bumper.

(I understand with some crappy racks this matters less, but if we dont care because of a crappy rack, should we really care about anything? I feel if I am going to play, I want to play right, and I can make more effort to make sure the lower level players rack it right, which I think is my prerogative on my break... I've just been a bit reticent in doing so because I thought it would be rude, but whatever, a game is a game right?)

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Hey guys... so I know what they do in the pros on a 9' table, but on a bar table, most likely 7', where do you spot the cue on the break? Are we trying to make the same type of break as the pros, meaning spot it near the forward diamond about 2 inches away and then try to make the 1 in the side and leave the cue around the middle of the table?

I have tried some variations because of the difference in ratio of distances from the cue to the rack to the pockets, but I cant get a consistent spot to make that 1, and yes, the rack sucks a lot because I am playing 1-2-3's mostly (APA rating), and I dont really check the rack because I think its rude even though my manager said I should LOL.

I see many 5-6's tee off near the middle of the table and get an edge ball in on the break, I hardly see anyone break from near the bumper.

Anyone have a video or diagram on where a pro would spot the cue on a bar table? (will have to simply ignore the rack and imperfect table variables)

Generally speaking, if the rack is very tight, best results come from breaking from the side rail. Hit the front ball dead square. The corner ball is fairly wired. But the main reason for the side rail is that it is effective across a wide range of speeds. Pretty much every location behind the head string correlates to a particular speed that will make the corner ball. I place the cueball about a balls width inside either the 1st or 3rd diamond on the end rail, and hit about 16mph. This seems to wire the corner ball and have the one track up towards one of the corner pockets. You're best bet is to play around with a magic rack so you can get very good consistency, and then get out the break speed app and figure out what speeds work in what places. For example, oddly the center of the table makes the corner ball at a *higher* speed than the 1st or 3rd diamond.

You could skip all this and just learn to hit the front ball dead square from the side rail.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT edit: wow post number 3000!

 

[Lou Loulacy]

I use a magic rack, break off the rail 1.5 diamonds in from the side rail, 1.5 diamonds up from the head rail. I break hard with a touch of top and follow through at touch of top. I am potting the 4 if u rack numerically a high percentage of the time and squatting the cue ball about mid table or 1 diamond back. 1 ball typically ends up in kitchen.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[JMASTERJ]

Generally speaking, if the rack is very tight, best results come from breaking from the side rail. Hit the front ball dead square. The corner ball is fairly wired. But the main reason for the side rail is that it is effective across a wide range of speeds. Pretty much every location behind the head string correlates to a particular speed that will make the corner ball. I place the cueball about a balls width inside either the 1st or 3rd diamond on the end rail, and hit about 16mph. This seems to wire the corner ball and have the one track up towards one of the corner pockets. You're best bet is to play around with a magic rack so you can get very good consistency, and then get out the break speed app and figure out what speeds work in what places. For example, oddly the center of the table makes the corner ball at a *higher* speed than the 1st or 3rd diamond.

You could skip all this and just learn to hit the front ball dead square from the side rail.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT edit: wow post number 3000!

Is that break cue app the $5 one form Predator? Seems cool, I assume nothing out there for free huh, seems like a such a simple app, suprised there isn't more like it.

 

[justinb386]

Hey guys... so I know what they do in the pros on a 9' table, but on a bar table, most likely 7', where do you spot the cue on the break? Are we trying to make the same type of break as the pros, meaning spot it near the forward diamond about 2 inches away and then try to make the 1 in the side and leave the cue around the middle of the table?

I have tried some variations because of the difference in ratio of distances from the cue to the rack to the pockets, but I cant get a consistent spot to make that 1, and yes, the rack sucks a lot because I am playing 1-2-3's mostly (APA rating), and I dont really check the rack because I think its rude even though my manager said I should LOL.

I see many 5-6's tee off near the middle of the table and get an edge ball in on the break, I hardly see anyone break from near the bumper.

Anyone have a video or diagram on where a pro would spot the cue on a bar table? (will have to simply ignore the rack and imperfect table variables)

I always broke at about the same spot that Mike Sigel breaks (2 diamonds up, and 1 diamond over, on either side, but for me, usually on the left side of the table).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJ_UW9X3pM&t=1521s

I always liked breaking from that spot, and this is for both 8 ball and 9 ball.

 

[jburkm002]

I think the real trick is knowing how to read the rack. Yes all balls may not be touching or certain ball may be touching. With that information. It will determine where you break from. Personally I have no idea. Pros study the rack if opponent is racking and look for gaps and what's touching. You might switch sides every rack depending on what the rack shows you.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[TheBook]

If you watch the pros they will constantly adjust their break until they get the result they want. If they see their opponent making balls they will try that break.

You should do the same. Watch where the other players are breaking from, their speed and applied English. If they are getting good results copy them.

When playing on a table for the first time look at the tracks in the cloths around the head string and that may also indicate where most are breaking from. The tracks might be there from playing 8 ball but after one break you should know. Most times you should know if it was from 8 ball by the location being too close to the side rail to make the 8 ball.

 

[JMASTERJ]

I always broke at about the same spot that Mike Sigel breaks (2 diamonds up, and 1 diamond over, on either side, but for me, usually on the left side of the table).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJ_UW9X3pM&t=1521s

I always liked breaking from that spot, and this is for both 8 ball and 9 ball.

And you make some pretty consistently? I just havent seen any top pro on TV/video in big tournies hit from there, only from a ball in from the middle diamond, seems like thats the spot 99% of the time. Then again I am not sure what size table you are referring to.

If you watch the pros they will constantly adjust their break until they get the result they want. If they see their opponent making balls they will try that break.

You should do the same. Watch where the other players are breaking from, their speed and applied English. If they are getting good results copy them.

When playing on a table for the first time look at the tracks in the cloths around the head string and that may also indicate where most are breaking from. The tracks might be there from playing 8 ball but after one break you should know. Most times you should know if it was from 8 ball by the location being too close to the side rail to make the 8 ball.

Hmmmm I see... Ya when I see the top tournies, especially near the finals, I dont see much varation at all as above described, but in my case maybe... The only thing is with my ball striking skills, first its hard to know if I am personally striking the ball well enough to find some consistency, and second, I think I can only look/follow ONE ball off the break to see if I "hit it right." My first instinct would be to watch the 1 and see how close it comes to the making side pocket, and hopefully adjust from there. I dont know how good players "watch" for their results to adjust. It seems impossible to watch several balls' actions right off the break when you are staying down so low in your stance.

 

[TheBook]

And you make some pretty consistently? I just havent seen any top pro on TV/video in big tournies hit from there, only from a ball in from the middle diamond, seems like thats the spot 99% of the time. Then again I am not sure what size table you are referring to.




Hmmmm I see... Ya when I see the top tournies, especially near the finals, I dont see much varation at all as above described, but in my case maybe... The only thing is with my ball striking skills, first its hard to know if I am personally striking the ball well enough to find some consistency, and second, I think I can only look/follow ONE ball off the break to see if I "hit it right." My first instinct would be to watch the 1 and see how close it comes to the making side pocket, and hopefully adjust from there. I dont know how good players "watch" for their results to adjust. It seems impossible to watch several balls' actions right off the break when you are staying down so low in your stance.

As someone else mentioned the pros dont try to make the one ball on the break. They want the one to come back to the head rail along with the CB so they have a opening shot. The one and the 9 are the only balls that are always in the same spot in the rack. With the right break you can make a ball and control where the one and CB ends up. If you make the one you don't know or have any control of where the next ball will be.

I don't think the pros follow every ball when breaking, they just look for results and keep making adjustments.

If you don't have good control you should break at a speed that gives you the control to hit where you want. You may find that you get better results. Corey would use a soft break and rules were changed because of it. He would make a ball on the break and the CB and one would end up near the head rail for a easy shot to start with by breaking softer.

 

[JMASTERJ]

As someone else mentioned the pros dont try to make the one ball on the break. They want the one to come back to the head rail along with the CB so they have a opening shot. The one and the 9 are the only balls that are always in the same spot in the rack. With the right break you can make a ball and control where the one and CB ends up. If you make the one you don't know or have any control of where the next ball will be.

I don't think the pros follow every ball when breaking, they just look for results and keep making adjustments.

If you don't have good control you should break at a speed that gives you the control to hit where you want. You may find that you get better results. Corey would use a soft break and rules were changed because of it. He would make a ball on the break and the CB and one would end up near the head rail for a easy shot to start with by breaking softer.

I've heard that too about not trying to make the 1 ball off the break but honestly I have only heard that here from like 1 or 2 others. Just like in this video

https://youtu.be/Vg96hsF2Cy8

and every US Open and World Championships I've watched, male and female, I have never heard any of them say the pros do not want to make the 1 or when they do that it was a mistake. I understand the concept of NOT making the 1, and I am not accusing you of being wrong, I am simply stating what I have heard and seen from about 200 pro championship matches I have watched over the last ~10 years, so there is clearly some discrepancy of info here. I have always heard commentary from those matches that they make the 1 on a "standard" break and leave the cue ball in the middle of the table so they have a shot on everything. I see them make the 1 in about 30-35% of the breaks, and the ones they do miss are barely off the side pocket.

I would think if the pros did NOT want to make it, they would not consistently make and keep coming so close to that side with the 1, so this is confusing as to the info being provided.

Anyways it seems the break is a WHOLE game in itself and with the racks of lower level players, maybe its not even worth discussing, and might just be wise to shoot as hard and controlled as possible with a decent break/playing cue and live with the consequences until maybe at least playing at a level 7 or above.