Breaking and the important of a center hit

H

Hircine

Larry Byrd
Silver Member
Okay I usually break from the right side and aim in between the head ball and the ball below it on the right side. I found out that I sometimes scratch consistently in the right corner pocket. I have found that if I make sure I am hitting center however the ball continues to keep going after hitting the rack and will spin forward even more, I am not using top spin at all, and tried top with and without english and still have scratched.

Am I truly hitting center ball when this break is successful with no scratch and the ball does what I mentioned above?
 
Hircine said:
Okay I usually break from the right side and aim in between the head ball and the ball below it on the right side. I found out that I sometimes scratch consistently in the right corner pocket. I have found that if I make sure I am hitting center however the ball continues to keep going after hitting the rack and will spin forward even more, I am not using top spin at all, and tried top with and without english and still have scratched.

Am I truly hitting center ball when this break is successful with no scratch and the ball does what I mentioned above?
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The cue ball doesn't roll forward unless it has forward spin on it. You're either a) not hitting center ball, b) not hitting the cue hard enough and it picks up forward roll before contact.

A lot of players actually hit higher on the cue when they break than they intend. This is due to raising their body up in an attempt to exert more power into their break. Aiming lower on the cue can remedy this.

Since you're hitting the head ball/second ball off center, and you are hitting the cue center ball, it is naturally going to go towards the lower corner area after contact, you can use draw to avoid this if you want to keep aiming at this spot.

Is this 8 or 9 ball? Why are you aiming between the head ball and second ball?

Try aiming just below center, continue aiming further down on the cue ball until you squat the cue in the center of the table. If you start drawing the cue, move up higher a bit. Also, start hitting the head ball full in the face. Once you've mastered this break, you can start experimenting with a cut break, but with that break you'll want to draw the cue to the side rail.
 
I dunno, I like it, I've been able to scatter the balls very well and pocket a couple each time, even if I do scratch, but I prefer having the ball actually go into the rack.

It appears to me the CB slows after hitting and then picks up speed and just keeps going, its evident some sort of spin changes after contact. So I may actually be hitting it below center and it changes to top spin after contact.

Maybe I'll try to get a video next time I do it, but I probably won't be on the table until I'm back at school where I have access.

I also get low during the break, I treat it as a normal shot other than I try to follow through as much as possible and put a good amount of force into it, but not enough to damage my cue, as I break with my player, but with care.

Oh and this is in 8 ball, in 9 ball I break in a similar position but it is farther up and closer to the side rail like in a video I seen of Efren Reyes.
 
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Hircine said:
I dunno, I like it, I've been able to scatter the balls very well and pocket a couple each time, even if I do scratch, but I prefer having the ball actually go into the rack.

It appears to me the CB slows after hitting and then picks up speed and just keeps going, its evident some sort of spin changes after contact. So I may actually be hitting it below center and it changes to top spin after contact.
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If the ball is sliding across the cloth it picks up topspin, but no way to tell if it's the cloth or if your tip is rising.
But one way to make sure it's NOT the cloth is to angle very slightly downward (we're just talking an extra degree or two) on the break.
You lose a hair of power but the ball jumps across the table instead of sliding/rolling. This prevents it from picking up any friction from the cloth.
It's also part of the reason why some pros have a break that hops up in the air a bit after hitting the head ball.

I wouldn't fall in love with the topspin break, usually on a good break the rack scatters and you're only gonna bump one or two balls,
and the odds of those bumped balls going into the hole are pretty tiny.
Getting the cue ball nowhere near a scratch is definitely worth more than extra action on 2 balls.

It's what brian said... Everyone lifts their tip at the last second when breaking.
You see this habit when people try to really juice a ball with draw too, which is why sometimes their attempt to draw 8 feet doesn't go backwards at all, even if they can reliably draw 3 feet.
 
CreeDo said:
If the ball is sliding across the cloth it picks up topspin, but no way to tell if it's the cloth or if your tip is rising.
But one way to make sure it's NOT the cloth is to angle very slightly downward (we're just talking an extra degree or two) on the break.
You lose a hair of power but the ball jumps across the table instead of sliding/rolling. This prevents it from picking up any friction from the cloth.
It's also part of the reason why some pros have a break that hops up in the air a bit after hitting the head ball.

I wouldn't fall in love with the topspin break, usually on a good break the rack scatters and you're only gonna bump one or two balls,
and the odds of those bumped balls going into the hole are pretty tiny.
Getting the cue ball nowhere near a scratch is definitely worth more than extra action on 2 balls.

It's what brian said... Everyone lifts their tip at the last second when breaking.
You see this habit when people try to really juice a ball with draw too, which is why sometimes their attempt to draw 8 feet doesn't go backwards at all, even if they can reliably draw 3 feet.
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Yeah I've done that before, so much to where the ball leapt off the table after the break, so it was too much.

On a side note, its funny when attempting to draw and you go too low, sending the cue ball into the air...fail, I actually did it one time and got the cue ball into the pocket fist and the OB slowly rolled in after..
 
I would suggest that you hit the appex ball as if hit from the side pocket. Hit is with low draw or low outside. There is a good chance you will pocket the appex ball in the opposite side pocket. If you want the cue ball to go into the pack aim for a more full hit on the appex ball with a high hit on the CB. You need to avoid the scratch.

Edit: That's another example of the probem with trying to hit 'center'. You are at the mercy of the mis hit with no plan for it.

Regards,
 
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CreeDo said:
If the ball is sliding across the cloth it picks up topspin, but no way to tell if it's the cloth or if your tip is rising.
...
This prevents it from picking up any friction from the cloth.
Click to expand...

From my work in slow motion, I can add a couple of minor points here.

Although the airborne cue ball doesn't pick up forward spin while it's actually off the cloth, it does pick up a good amount of spin, more than you might think, when it lands (assuming it lands before it hits the rack).

Also, if the CB does bounce a few inches before it hits the head ball, it will make contact with the rack while on an upward trajectory, and will actually pick up forward spin from hitting the head ball "off vertical center." As you know, in a normal cut, the CB picks up some sidespin after contact. This is the same thing, but in the vertical plane. The bottom of the CB hits the top of the head ball, thus inducing some forward spin on the CB.

That's why a well-executed "squat" break with no initial spin on the CB will actually result in the CB rebounding backwards off the rack with a little forward spin, then landing and "using" that forward spin to halt, right in the middle of the table.

You can see what I mean in this video, at 46 seconds: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KdWnR1wFsc0
In this example, I had a little bit of backspin on the CB before rack contact, but the cloth landing and "elevated" 1-ball contact result in the CB bouncing up and back with almost no spin. Of course, when it lands on the cloth (after rack contact), it picks up natural roll in the new direction of travel (back towards the head string).

Fascinating stuff in slow motion. This is something I'm working on for my next video.

The only way I know of to truly verify what spin is initially on the CB (before it hits the rack) is with a high speed (slow motion) camera. "Reading" the result of the break doesn't quite tell the whole story.

Anyway, to the OP, based on your description, I would have to agree that you are probably inadvertently putting top spin on the ball when your break behaves that way.

-Blake
 
Deflecting it gives you a larger "zone"

Hircine said:
Okay I usually break from the right side and aim in between the head ball and the ball below it on the right side. I found out that I sometimes scratch consistently in the right corner pocket. I have found that if I make sure I am hitting center however the ball continues to keep going after hitting the rack and will spin forward even more, I am not using top spin at all, and tried top with and without english and still have scratched.

Am I truly hitting center ball when this break is successful with no scratch and the ball does what I mentioned above?
Click to expand...


You should hit this with LOW/Right, hitting the 2 nd ball as square as possible with out hitting the one ball at all. Draw the cue ball to the side rail and try to make it spin towards the center of the table. This is a specialty break and designed to make the 8 Ball or tie up the balls. You will NOT increase your Break and Run percentage doing this, as it will cause clusters on the head rail.
 
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Don't hit between the balls.

Hit the 2nd ball solid, like you're cutting it towards the corner.

Slow your speed and inch it back up as you gain more control.
 
Banks said:
Don't hit between the balls.

Hit the 2nd ball solid, like you're cutting it towards the corner.

Slow your speed and inch it back up as you gain more control.
Click to expand...

I think this is the problem. If you're breaking an 8-ball rack and hitting between the head ball and the ball right below it, your tangent line is going to take you towards the corner pocket. Hit the second ball full, with draw. Don't hit the first ball at all.
 
If you are hitting the second ball break for 8 ball. When you are breaking from the right side use low left to keep from scratching in the corner and low right if you are breaking from the left side.
 
My start point for my break is as low as one can go but my end point is about a tip and a half higher than where I started.

My goal is to smash that apex ball head on when it works the QB come right back to me hitting that middle diamond. That's when my break is solid, sometimes the QB jumps up and back to me and other times the QB goes off the table to the moon or the first ugly person it see's at MACH 4.
 
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