Brian White

[MikeJanis]

mike ,have you considered letting guys of brian's caliber play in the events and let them go to 9 or 10 instead of seven.I understand no pros but some of the amateur guys are fairly close to brian's caliber and i dont think in those circumstances brian would have a picnic.he may even decide its too tough, but it would leave a choice

Seperating Amateurs from Open players and Pro players from Open player is already a pretty tough task. Now you ask if I could manage handicapping them as well ? NO WAY. It can not be done without extra employees and a lot more funding to initiate a system like that.


As an example of how bad an idea this would be, please ask any long time player in the NY area what they think based on the experiences of the Empire State Tour going to a Handicapped tour.


We are already on unsteady grounds with the Amateur status thing but throwing in HCP's would be a nightmare for everyone.

I truly believe I am on a solid track with our system. We have the Room Ownres, Many Players and the Sponsors with us. The last thing I want to do right now is put the whole shebang in a sinkhole.


Thanks for your suggestion,

Mj

 

[Scott Lee]

Roadkill...What makes you think that?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Wow! Just think, these two will be under the same roof in a few months. Could get exciting.

 

[ccshrimper]

It's the same way from the $5 -$125 entry fee tournaments. People care more about their money than getting better at pool these days. I played in my first tournament with pros at age 14 and it was a dream to me. I learned so much just watching from the seats after I was out. You had to drag me out of the pool hall every night for a month after that tournament. I bet my game jumped a ball in no time but people just don't get it. If they would think of pool as an investment, they might lose some money at first but in the end instead of winning $50 in a tournament, they could win $1000.

I've quit pool again for about a year now because I was kicked out of all the small tournaments in town besides one handicapped tourney. TD's, you are killing the potential of pool by making them amateur or handicapped. Without someone or something to strive for people get bored and quit.

 

[ribdoner]

Brian White should wear a disguise and pay with the amateurs. IMO.

Nobody could fade the "great white masked marvel":thumbup:


(must have in calcutta's)

 

[B_White]

It's the same way from the $5 -$125 entry fee tournaments. People care more about their money than getting better at pool these days. I played in my first tournament with pros at age 14 and it was a dream to me. I learned so much just watching from the seats after I was out. You had to drag me out of the pool hall every night for a month after that tournament. I bet my game jumped a ball in no time but people just don't get it. If they would think of pool as an investment, they might lose some money at first but in the end instead of winning $50 in a tournament, they could win $1000.

I've quit pool again for about a year now because I was kicked out of all the small tournaments in town besides one handicapped tourney. TD's, you are killing the potential of pool by making them amateur or handicapped. Without someone or something to strive for people get bored and quit.

Very well said.

 

[frankncali]

All i am trying to say is what are good regional players supposed to do without open events. If you say that these amateur tournaments will improve open events then we must take your word for it. I for one just don't see how they could do anything but hurt. And on another note i'm sick of all these people bashing someone's opinion when they probably can't even play pool to a high level. UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR SOMEONE TO SAY " YOU CAN'T DO WHAT YOU LOVE AND WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED HARD TO DO" THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTHS SHUT. As to you Mike, thanks for this post regardless of how everything turns out.
Brian White

You act as if someone owes you a tour. This is about money and business. Its not about what someone deserves or what they need to compete.
I have known for a few years that Amatuer or lower skill level pool is far more profitable than Open events. I helped run events in Dothan Al that had over 100 players and for many nights in a row the place was 24/7.
I also have ran Am. events with 50 people for 2 days(really 1 1/2) and watched 5x the amount of money go to the sponsor or bar/room owner.

I also think that if we go down the ladder in pool skills that each rung has a place very similiar to where you are. I am not a Pro level player or a really good A player. Closer to a B+ type guy mainly. However I can't play in a some weeklys at Hardtimes becuase I finsihed high in the Opens a few times. Would I be stealing in the other ones ... Not even close but
the room is having it to support the players that are not even at my level yet. Its business. Most everyone on this board has probably had similiar type things in their pool life.

Also most of the time the better you get at anything (especially sports) the tougher it becomes to participate. In baseball theres Little League open to anyone with tons of players. Next it gets smaller and the talent gets better. Then you have HS with a cut and even less players. Then
after that most players are done unless they are very good. Even those players will have trouble finding a place to play. After that only a select few play.
We in the pool world just happen to have very small groups and ladders due to the sport not being as big nationally as we would prefer.

I have played you and think that you are a great player. I also think you are in a tough spot. However, I dont see your opinion that smae as you do. Having more events for the masses only makes sense. Way more sense financially.

Good luck with your playing

 

[frankncali]

It's the same way from the $5 -$125 entry fee tournaments. People care more about their money than getting better at pool these days. I played in my first tournament with pros at age 14 and it was a dream to me. I learned so much just watching from the seats after I was out. You had to drag me out of the pool hall every night for a month after that tournament. I bet my game jumped a ball in no time but people just don't get it. If they would think of pool as an investment, they might lose some money at first but in the end instead of winning $50 in a tournament, they could win $1000.

I've quit pool again for about a year now because I was kicked out of all the small tournaments in town besides one handicapped tourney. TD's, you are killing the potential of pool by making them amateur or handicapped. Without someone or something to strive for people get bored and quit.

This is simply not true. The comments require that all it takes to be a top player is playing tougher events and losing. It also implies that ANYONE can play to a level high enough to win a regional level event. That is not true at all is is a slap in the face at the higher skill guys.

There are certain attributes/skills that one can develop but to be Top at amost anything just by practicing doesnt happen.

I played all kinds of sports growing up and have played football and baseball after high school. I saw more "want to" and practice by guys that never made it anywhere than by 75% of the guys that made it.

There is talent to pool. Until a few years ago I thought otherwise but I am now a firm believer.

That something to strive for doesnt have to be money or tourney wins for many many people. We also have to face the facts that some people just like to play and dont really enjoy trying to master a hobby or a "play time" event.

Most (95% would be my guess) are here because we represent the the minority. We are the crazy's that were bitten by the pool bug and can't stop. If everyone that played pool casually were like us then there would be more money in pool and the sport would be much much larger.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Brian,
Maybe you don't know how the average Joe pool player feels either.

Everyone started out as "average Joe", so I'd have to think the better players do have an idea of how the average Joe pool player feels, having been that person themselves at one time. With that said, I guess it's possible that the better players always thought the way they do now, which is why they went on to become better players.

 

[stick8]

let him play

Brian, just a note in an open forum from me to you.

Brian, we have known each other for some time. We have always gotten along and never had bad words to say to each other. I always considered it a pleasure to have you at my events. Your personality is entertaining and genuine and I have always (Except when you lose, but that is expected from someone thats put their heart into playing the game as much as you do.) enjoyed your company.

The point of this letter is simple. If you see the Viking Tour, which has always been predominately and Open tour since 1994 adding 5X the norml money to our Amateur events, what do you think we will do to the Open events? I can tell you this. They are not going away anytime soon. Please be patient and allow me to do what I do best and I am positive you will be pleasantly surprised.

Sincerely,

Mj

OH LET HIM PLAY!!! i will give you brian and i will take the field for a grand!!!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[MikeJanis]

OH LET HIM PLAY!!! i will give you brian and i will take the field for a grand!!!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now Stick, dont be bustin my pool balls :grin:

I know you are only joking or you would have let him play in your Amateur event last weekend.

Everythings good.

Mj

 

[stick8]

yep

Now Stick, dont be bustin my pool balls :grin:

I know you are only joking or you would have let him play in your Amateur event last weekend.

Everythings good.

Mj

yep, but please lets find him a game!!! anyone want to play brian?? that playes his speed??? if so set it up and brian i have 11 bar boxes and a gc in private room .free table time on any monday!!!! STICK 706-886-6047 after 5pm 706-754-5261 brian you make the game i will go 500.00 on you!!

 

[nympfisher]

Brian. i might can set something up with Jessie Nix if your interested

 

[cuechick]

Have you ever heard the phrase "Your is only as strong as your weakest link"? Well Pool is only as strong as it's weakest link!

If the "good of pool" is truly your real concern than you need to understand without all the amateurs, the pros have no audience and no future to draw from. Having opportunities for all levels to play is what allows the sport to grow. The Elite of any sport will always be the smallest group.

The danger is to be short sighted, only focusing on immediate gain. This IMO is why so many of the men's tours have struggled or failed. Had the APA not implemented their famous "23" rule, forcing teams to recruit lower level players, I do not think they would have near the success they have today. It is that constant influx of new blood, that has made it the most successful league in the country.

By Mike having his first tourneys with this new sponsor the amateurs he showed his sponsor a huge turnout (90+) players and lots of online coverage. This can only encourage them to continue and maybe add even more, which down the line will benefit the smaller Open events.

I also played on the Tri-State tour for many years which uses an Open/A/B/C/D system and offers many different opportunities for all it's players to play. The biggest turnout was always the C/D tournament. They also have open events, where everyone played even but they had different entry fees based on your handicap and these also drew a good turnout.

All of pool needs fresh blood and every tour that gives different levels a chance, is helping to strengthen the sports foundation. And every Pro or Open level player needs to recognize the importance of this foundation. Imagine you build a beautiful master suite on top of house with a foundation made of sand.... just how long before it falls?


I am just curious, since you think you should be allowed to play in all events, does that include the Women's Tour and Women's Regional events?

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

You are correct and as we have clarified i'm not a pro.

You might not travel and try to make your living playing professional pool tournaments but you are at a pro level of play...Even me a shortstop can't play in the Viking Amatuers and I am totally fine with it because I play better than them..Why aren't you fine with it??

The difference is you can beat people they do tour professionally on consecutive sets..and u can win a tournament full of champions..not likely but you can win...So why get mad at someone trying to promote pool and they won'tlet you steal the amateurs money....Your whole argument is crazy without amateurs and fans sports wouldn't exist where pros could do them for a living....There would be no money..Without sponsorships and people investing money in sports everyone would be poor that was a professional...

It just sucks that you are probaly in the top 150 americans alive playing pool maybe even inthe top 100 or top 50 and you can't make a living at it but without the support of people that cant run 3 balls in a row you would never have any money to play for..

 

[tigerseye]

It just sucks that you are probaly in the top 150 americans alive playing pool maybe even inthe top 100 or top 50 and you can't make a living at it but without the support of people that cant run 3 balls in a row you would never have any money to play for..[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure how people that can't run 3-balls support guys in bwhite's position???
Please elaborate...tnx...

 

[Thepoolroomchef]

It's the same way from the $5 -$125 entry fee tournaments. People care more about their money than getting better at pool these days. I played in my first tournament with pros at age 14 and it was a dream to me. I learned so much just watching from the seats after I was out. You had to drag me out of the pool hall every night for a month after that tournament. I bet my game jumped a ball in no time but people just don't get it. If they would think of pool as an investment, they might lose some money at first but in the end instead of winning $50 in a tournament, they could win $1000.

I've quit pool again for about a year now because I was kicked out of all the small tournaments in town besides one handicapped tourney. TD's, you are killing the potential of pool by making them amateur or handicapped. Without someone or something to strive for people get bored and quit.

I have never seen B W play but I hear he is a great player. I am not in the pool seen very much anymore but when I had a chance I enjoyed playing in Mikes open or armature events just for the competition but I wouldn't always donate my money to play in an open event where the chances that I would win an event with players like Cliff or Stevie were slim to none unless I had a 2 day unconscious moment playing pool where the balls all just fell in the hole. To say that armature players don't have any heart by not wanting to play in events with pro speed players is like saying that someone of B W caliber has no heart by not wanting to play in all the pro events to boost him to the pro level. The chances of "c/b" players wanting to play in a tournament where the "a/short stop" players are always at are going to go down because they feel like they are donating their money and for someone to try to build a business and wants to target the most amount of players as possible they need to be aware of how to bring in as many as possible.
Mike has always done a jam up job with his tour directing and people should give him the respect that he has earned with his tour. There are plenty of open tournaments, amature tournaments, pro tournaments, side action, national tournaments, BCA, APA, TAP, money games or playing the ghost against someone who just likes to bet. I think that covers just about anygame for anyone who can play.......Pick one somewhere

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

It just sucks that you are probaly in the top 150 americans alive playing pool maybe even inthe top 100 or top 50 and you can't make a living at it but without the support of people that cant run 3 balls in a row you would never have any money to play for..

I'm not sure how people that can't run 3-balls support guys in bwhite's position???
Please elaborate...tnx...[/QUOTE]

If people that aren't that good at pool didn't love it and support and follow it there would be no money in it whatsoever..Just like other sports in the world it takes a following of that sport to get decent money involved with it..Unfortunately pool doesn't pay good unless you are a top 30 in the world player...Just think if the NFL didn't have a huge following world wide there would be guys out there killing each other to make a 1000 bucks..SO what i'm saying is without fans and players that aren't that good there would never be any money at all involved with pool becuase nobody could find a reason to invest money into pool..People don't just like to throw away money business man and pool room owners are in it to make money even though every once in awhile they are willing to bite the financial bullet to better the sport but they still gotta feed their families too..

 

[BigDogatLarge]

Money should be the result, not the incentive. Play pool because you love the sport and don't expect any money out of it... do it for the love of the game.

Tap Tap Tap

 

[BigDogatLarge]

I'm not sure how people that can't run 3-balls support guys in bwhite's position???
Please elaborate...tnx...

If people that aren't that good at pool didn't love it and support and follow it there would be no money in it whatsoever..Just like other sports in the world it takes a following of that sport to get decent money involved with it..Unfortunately pool doesn't pay good unless you are a top 30 in the world player...Just think if the NFL didn't have a huge following world wide there would be guys out there killing each other to make a 1000 bucks..SO what i'm saying is without fans and players that aren't that good there would never be any money at all involved with pool becuase nobody could find a reason to invest money into pool..People don't just like to throw away money business man and pool room owners are in it to make money even though every once in awhile they are willing to bite the financial bullet to better the sport but they still gotta feed their families too..

You are right on the money and BW is right on the money. Now enter the TDs and you have begun to form common ground. I have said it before and will say it again, MJ is on to something great. I see where he is asking for support from room owners for the juniors. That is growing the sport from the ground up. He has a good jump on the amateur segment and next he will tackle the open segment, It will be something that most all will be glad to see, I am sure. I have never met the man, but I listen to what is said about him and his tours. He is standup by most all accounts. BW, stand by your friend and wait til he gets it going. He is doing it for pool and the players as well as himself. In that order. IMO

Dwight

 

[ribdoner]

Money should be the result, not the incentive. Play pool because you love the sport and don't expect any money out of it... do it for the love of the game.

Admirable and profound, hope your blessed and are able to maintain this attitude as you traverse life's paths.:smile: