bridge length, wrist, elbow and shoulder

[Wayne Crimi]

I've been working on my mechanics and stroke recently and came to sudden realization that may be obvious to others, but wasn't to me.

I first starting playing pool in the late 70s in NY when most people were playing 14.1. Back in those days I used a very short bridge and short stroke because that's what gave me the most accurate hit on the cueball and object ball. At that time a little of my stroke came from my wrist and a little from my elbow, but it was short and compact. Over time, I switched to playing some 14.1 and some 9-ball. My bridge length increased and my stroke lengthened over time with the changes in my game. It wasn't a concious change. It just sort of happened because 9-ball demanded doing more with the cueball on a regular basis. So I needed a longer more powerful stroke more often. I think more of my stroke came from elbow movement. As time passed, the length of my bridge got even longer. I'm not sure why. It just did. I then started using my shoulder a bit to keep my accuracy and power. What I just noticed yesterday during drills was that as I lengthen my bridge I need a longer stroke which in turn requires some elbow drop to remain accurate. If I lengthen it even further more shoulder comes into play to remain accurate. To me, this was a major revelation. I've been struggling with my back hand mechanics for decades. I played around with wrist action, elbow action, shoulder action etc... searching for the magic bullet, but I never realized that bridge length is a component in my stroke length which is then a component of the kind of movement you need in the back hand to remain accurate. For me. it felt like a ureka moment because my back hand, elbow, shoulder movement has been inconsistent and all over the place for a long time.

Does what I am saying make some sense?

Was this obvious to everyone except me?

 

[garczar]

I've been working on my mechanics and stroke recently and came to sudden realization that may be obvious to others, but wasn't to me.

I first starting playing pool in the late 70s in NY when most people were playing 14.1. Back in those days I used a very short bridge and short stroke because that's what gave me the most accurate hit on the cueball and object ball. At that time a little of my stroke came from my wrist and a little from my elbow, but it was short and compact. Over time, I switched to playing some 14.1 and some 9-ball. My bridge length increased and my stroke lengthened over time with the changes in my game. It wasn't a concious change. It just sort of happened because 9-ball demanded doing more with the cueball on a regular basis. So I needed a longer more powerful stroke more often. I think more of my stroke came from elbow movement. As time passed, the length of my bridge got even longer. I'm not sure why. It just did. I then started dropping my shoulder a bit to keep my accuracy and power. What I just noticed yesterday during drills was that as I lengthen my bridge I need a longer stroke which in turn requires some elbow drop to remain accurate. If I lengthen it even further I need some shoulder drop to remain accurate. To me, this was a major revelation. I've been struggling with my back hand mechanics for decades. I played around with wrist action, elbow action, shoulder drop etc... searching for the magic bullet, but I never realized that bridge length is a component in stroke length which is then a component of the kind of movement you need in the back hand to remain accurate. For me. it felt like a ureka moment because my back hand, elbow, shoulder movement has been inconsistent and all over the place for a long time.

Does what I am saying make some sense?

Was this obvious to everyone except me?

I've tried shortening up for reasons you indicate. Makes sense to me. Been watching some CJ Wiley vids and he really gets a lot out of that compact delivery. I make more balls like this.

 

[mikemosconi]

Most of us who started pool in the 60s and early 70s were straight ppl players in the Northeast-we all struggle with getting it right even to this day - most of the top 14.1 guys like Martin and Mizerak could not dominate the new younger group who
Came up strictly on rotation games - when it came to playing those games as we entered the 80s - Sigel, Varner, Made the best transitions - welcome to the club

 

[bbb]

Alan Hopkins did OK with a short stroke and short bridge
Just sayin
Alex Pagulayan does well with a short bridge and a short stroke
Just sayin

 

[The_JV]

Alan Hopkins did OK with a short stroke and short bridge
Just sayin
Alex Pagulayan does well with a short bridge in a short stroke
Just sayin

I can't speak to Alan, but Alex does struggle a little when forced to move the CB large distances. However he (like every journeyman pro) knows his game and plays shape specifically to manufacturer carom angles that allow for less pace through the OB. You put him in a spot that requires a ton of power his stroke breaks down.

 

[bbb]

I can't speak to Alan, but Alex does struggle a little when forced to move the CB large distances. However he (like every journeyman pro) knows his game and plays shape specifically to manufacturer carom angles that allow for less pace through the OB. You put him in a spot that requires a ton of power his stroke breaks down.

You always seem to be knowledgeable and apparently a higher level player so I have to respect what you say
However, based on results, Alex seems to do OK with the stroke power that he can generate
I don’t think everyone needs a Larry Neville or Mike Massey stroke
And most people can not achieve what they can do

 

[The_JV]

You always seem to be knowledgeable and apparently a higher level player so I have to respect what you say

all smoke and mirrors, but thanks none the less.

However, based on results, Alex seems to do OK with the stroke power that he can generate
I don’t think everyone needs a Larry Neville or Mike Massey stroke

100%... Alex knows his game and doesn't put himself in situations where his lack of power is a factor. However it is a short coming when you compare him to other 800 players. You'll only see this when he really puts himself in a bad spot, which is extremely rare, or his opponent leaves him something less than desirable.

Wish I had a vid clip at the ready of the kind of shot I'm trying to describe.

 

[bbb]

all smoke and mirrors, but thanks none the less.

take the compliment
it is sincere

100%... Alex knows his game and doesn't put himself in situations where his lack of power is a factor. However it is a short coming when you compare him to other 800 players. You'll only see this when he really puts himself in a bad spot, which is extremely rare, or his opponent leaves him something less than desirable.

Wish I had a vid clip at the ready of the kind of shot I'm trying to describe.

wish you had a clip too

 

[bbb]

What I just noticed yesterday during drills was that as I lengthen my bridge I need a longer stroke which in turn requires some elbow drop to remain accurate. If I lengthen it even further I need some shoulder drop to remain accurate. To me, this was a major revelation. I've been struggling with my back hand mechanics for decades. I played around with wrist action, elbow action, shoulder drop etc... searching for the magic bullet, but I never realized that bridge length is a component in stroke length which is then a component of the kind of movement you need in the back hand to remain accurate. For me. it felt like a ureka moment because my back hand, elbow, shoulder movement has been inconsistent and all over the place for a long time.

Does what I am saying make some sense?

Was this obvious to everyone except me?

you dont mention where in your stroke you "need your shoulder drop to be accurate"
IMO
neither elbow drop or shoulder drop are necessary to be accurate
if fact those movements could make it more difficult to be accurate
here is a monster stroke with minimal if any shoulder or elbow drop

 

[The_JV]

Shoulder/elbow drop isn't related to bridge length. It's related to grip hand placement.

Regardless of how much cue you have sticking out beyond your bridge hand. Your forearm should be perpendicular to the cue at (or extremely near) the point of contact with the CB. The drop happens post contact, and is moot in regards to cueing accuracy.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

you dont mention where in your stroke you "need your shoulder drop to be accurate"
IMO
neither elbow drop or shoulder drop are necessary to be accurate
if fact those movements could make it more difficult to be accurate
here is a monster stroke with minimal if any shoulder or elbow drop

Yes, some professionals employ a pure pendulum movement, though most incorporate some degree of elbow drop.

 

[mikemosconi]

Alan Hopkins did OK with a short stroke and short bridge
Just sayin
Alex Pagulayan does well with a short bridge and a short stroke
Just sayin

Alan was not a big force at all once the big strokers took over rotation games- yes there are exceptions to every rule - as Mark Wilson stated: thousands upon thousands of pool hours can possibly overcome major stroke short comings. I think by a long shot short strokers are outnumbered on the higher pro tour rankings over the past 30+ years or so. The short strikers that are very successful do NOT stop their cue movements at the point of cue ball initial contact - they normally let the cue tip ride through the cue ball - it is not a jump up jerk stroke
Most amateur players with short strokes jump
Up way too often during the stroke and/or lack smoothness in their stroke and are too quick on the last forward stroke before cue ball contact.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Try looking at a video of your fundamentals. There are some good shots and viewing angles that will let you see clearly what you are actually doing. An instructor who regularly does video analysis could help.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Alan Hopkins did OK with a short stroke and short bridge
Just sayin
Alex Pagulayan does well with a short bridge and a short stroke
Just sayin

Alex has a long bridge on most shots but a short backstroke from what I have seen

 

[straightline]

Yet Gorst, Melling, anyone else? seem to have no debilitating issues.

 

[DJKeys]

Alan Hopkins did OK with a short stroke and short bridge
Just sayin
Alex Pagulayan does well with a short bridge and a short stroke
Just sayin

Grady Matthews as well-

 

[garczar]

Alan was not a big force at all once the big strokers took over rotation games- yes there are exceptions to every rule - as Mark Wilson stated: thousands upon thousands of pool hours can possibly overcome major stroke short comings. I think by a long shot short strokers are outnumbered on the higher pro tour rankings over the past 30+ years or so. The short strikers that are very successful do NOT stop their cue movements at the point of cue ball initial contact - they normally let the cue tip ride through the cue ball - it is not a jump up jerk stroke
Most amateur players with short strokes jump
Up way too often during the stroke and/or lack smoothness in their stroke and are too quick on the last forward stroke before cue ball contact.

That's what she said, too quik on that last forward stroke.

 

[DJKeys]

I have been struggling recently with these issues as I went back to examining my fundamentals. Keeping my elbow straight and holding the cue loose are still two things I have a problem locking into memory.

-dj

 

[Texas Carom Club]

you dont mention where in your stroke you "need your shoulder drop to be accurate"
IMO
neither elbow drop or shoulder drop are necessary to be accurate
if fact those movements could make it more difficult to be accurate
here is a monster stroke with minimal if any shoulder or elbow drop

THIS dudes obsession with oysters is disturbing

 

[alphadog]

Here is my take on the short bridge.

The short bridge is ideal for short,soft finesse shots.

A longer bridge actually can increase stroke accuracy because it forces a straighter stroke. Your practice strokes should make that obvious. In my case painfully obvious.