brunswicks and diamonds

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, but the subrail face angle have to be routed or milled .
Red Labels are old . The first generation had Super Speed cushions. but, Brunswick had a ton of problems with those cushions after they contracted them overseas . Then they went with Championship. Those bank really short . Then they went with Artemis . Then the blue label specs.

If those Red Labels keep getting a bad rep, they might end up as really good deals in the used market because people don't know, you just need to replace the cushions with Super Speed and you have a pretty good table .
There was a local guy who had a nice looking Red for sale. He wanted 3000 or 3500, I don’t remember. I called Diamond, they want $2000 for a blue top plus some more for the leveling system. I’d be at close to 6k for an almost new table. If the table wasn’t the red rosewood I might have gone for it.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There was a local guy who had a nice looking Red for sale. He wanted 3000 or 3500, I don’t remember. I called Diamond, they want $2000 for a blue top plus some more for the leveling system. I’d be at close to 6k for an almost new table. If the table wasn’t the red rosewood I might have gone for it.
I love the red rosewood look . I hate the dymondwood black . Oak is ugly to me too .
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Reds can be converted to Blue specs without changing the top. I remember playing at Bank Shots red labels thinking that they bank good like a blue label, not sure if they were converted though. Red Labels seem to be very inconsistent from table to table.
Glad you liked my work!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Yes, but the subrail face angle have to be routed or milled .
Red Labels are old . The first generation had Super Speed cushions. but, Brunswick had a ton of problems with those cushions after they contracted them overseas . Then they went with Championship. Those bank really short . Then they went with Artemis . Then the blue label specs.

If those Red Labels keep getting a bad rep, they might end up as really good deals in the used market because people don't know, you just need to replace the cushions with Super Speed and you have a pretty good table .
There's more to the conversion from red to blue than just simply changing the bevel the cushions are mounted on, as the red label and blue label share the exact same nose height, that isn't changed.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This might be a stupid question and probably has been answered before but I don’t know the answer so I’m sure real king cobra a.k.a. Glenn can tell me
Goldcrown‘s were the standard before diamonds
When Greg Sullivan decided to start diamond tables
Why was the original design so drastic to play so differently from the Brunswick‘s ?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
This might be a stupid question and probably has been answered before but I don’t know the answer so I’m sure real king cobra a.k.a. Glenn can tell me
Goldcrown‘s were the standard before diamonds
When Greg Sullivan decided to start diamond tables
Why was the original design so drastic to play so differently from the Brunswick‘s ?
Its called a learning curve. Greg want a pool table that had no metal castings, no plastic pockets, and nothing sticking out above the finish of the rails that could scratch a cue, or cause you to have to bridge over it. Pocket designs were trial and error, rail designs too. Diamond wasn't even building their tables to begin with, Stapleton billiards in KY was, that started in 1988. They came a long way on their own until I met up with them in March 2000, and that was because I had heard from Global Billiards that a company called Diamond was trying to build their own coin-operated pool tables, in which I just happened to be looking for a manufacturer to build my designed coin operated pool tables. So, I met Greg in March 2000 and the rest is history.

In early 2010 I rebuilt the GC1's at Malarkey's Pool & Brew, using the same cushions and cloth Diamonds use, only they out played the Diamond red label tables Diamond was building, as verified by Dave and Oscar who owned the Golden Fleece Billiards Poolhall, who came to Malarkey's and played on the rebuilt GC1"s for 4 1/2 hours, to which they later called Diamond to complain about me rebuilding GC1's to outplay the Diamond 9fts they owned. That's what lead to the changing of the rail design to the Blue label rails, I had to fly back to Diamond in May 2000 to show the factory how I designed the GC1 rails to play better than the Diamonds played. The rest is history, but as some people here on AZB, say, I've never accomplished anything!!
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Its called a learning curve. Greg want a pool table that had no metal castings, no plastic pockets, and nothing sticking out above the finish of the rails that could scratch a cue, or cause you to have to bridge over it. Pocket designs were trial and error, rail designs too. Diamond wasn't even building their tables to begin with, Stapleton billiards in KY was, that started in 1988. They came a long way on their own until I met up with them in March 2000, and that was because I had heard from Global Billiards that a company called Diamond was trying to build their own coin-operated pool tables, in which I just happened to be looking for a manufacturer to build my designed coin operated pool tables. So, I met Greg in March 2000 and the rest is history.

In early 2010 I rebuilt the GC1's at Malarkey's Pool & Brew, using the same cushions and cloth Diamonds use, only they out played the Diamond red label tables Diamond was building, as verified by Dave and Oscar who owned the Golden Fleece Billiards Poolhall, who came to Malarkey's and played on the rebuilt GC1"s for 4 1/2 hours, to which they later called Diamond to complain about me rebuilding GC1's to outplay the Diamond 9fts they owned. That's what lead to the changing of the rail design to the Blue label rails, I had to fly back to Diamond in May 2000 to show the factory how I designed the GC1 rails to play better than the Diamonds played. The rest is history, but as some people here on AZB, say, I've never accomplished anything!!
thanks for the reply..... (y)
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Its called a learning curve. Greg want a pool table that had no metal castings, no plastic pockets, and nothing sticking out above the finish of the rails that could scratch a cue, or cause you to have to bridge over it. Pocket designs were trial and error, rail designs too. Diamond wasn't even building their tables to begin with, Stapleton billiards in KY was, that started in 1988. They came a long way on their own until I met up with them in March 2000, and that was because I had heard from Global Billiards that a company called Diamond was trying to build their own coin-operated pool tables, in which I just happened to be looking for a manufacturer to build my designed coin operated pool tables. So, I met Greg in March 2000 and the rest is history.

In early 2010 I rebuilt the GC1's at Malarkey's Pool & Brew, using the same cushions and cloth Diamonds use, only they out played the Diamond red label tables Diamond was building, as verified by Dave and Oscar who owned the Golden Fleece Billiards Poolhall, who came to Malarkey's and played on the rebuilt GC1"s for 4 1/2 hours, to which they later called Diamond to complain about me rebuilding GC1's to outplay the Diamond 9fts they owned. That's what lead to the changing of the rail design to the Blue label rails, I had to fly back to Diamond in May 2000 to show the factory how I designed the GC1 rails to play better than the Diamonds played. The rest is history, but as some people here on AZB, say, I've never accomplished anything!!
Glen... This is the kind of post I like seeing from you. Knowledgeable and informative. You could have left the last sentence off though.
 

joninnorfolk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just finished rebuilding a snooker table, and billiard table in Billings, MT.
I guess that makes you my tormentor, Glenn! First I have ever tried snooker and it's tough! I'm going to try the 3c table out one of these days too.... I am stoked at the equipment in Brother's and know they are thrilled with your work.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I guess that makes you my tormentor, Glenn! First I have ever tried snooker and it's tough! I'm going to try the 3c table out one of these days too.... I am stoked at the equipment in Brother's and know they are thrilled with your work.
All I can say about that snooker table is bring some booze with you, that'll make it less frustrating to play on it, as I extended the pocket shelves and tightened to pockets to 3 1/8ths😅
 

bignick31985

Life Long Learner
Silver Member
Love both tables. I have no actual mechanic information or experience other than what I've learned from owning a GC4, however.

I'd take either any day of the week!
 
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