Brutal kick/skid in snooker

Snooker balls do lots of weird things on new cloth, and not just on the super fast stuff. Seems to be because the balls are light and skid or are airborne more. Doesn't happen with pool balls on the same cloth.
 
Scaramouche said:
Snooker balls do lots of weird things on new cloth, .
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My thoughts in the past are that with new cloth and slick cloth, the chalk that's left on the cueball doesn't get wiped off as quickly. So, more chalk marks are left on the cueball?

Either that or on old, slow, dirty cloth, every shot is a mystery so kicks/skids go relatively unnoticed.

Fred
 
well, I've seen too many "what causes skid" threads to count but I've been sold on the idea it's dirt on the balls. The snooker world seemed to think so too as the ref immediately jumped up and cleaned the ball. He didn't do anything with the cloth. Check out Dr. Dave's videos on the subject.

When you think about it, how's cloth gonna cause one ball to literally hop straight up in the air like that, unless it's got a chunk of something acting as a ramp? But I don't think that's what we're seeing. We're seeing the backspinning cue ball being incredibly sticky on one particular area, and it is enough to lift the second cueball upwards as that sticky patch is rotating from the base of the ball to the top.
 
Higgins did that intentionally. The betting odds were 500:1 against a skid. :rolleyes:
 
CreeDo said:
well, I've seen too many "what causes skid" threads to count but I've been sold on the idea it's dirt on the balls. The snooker world seemed to think so too as the ref immediately jumped up and cleaned the ball. He didn't do anything with the cloth. Check out Dr. Dave's videos on the subject.

When you think about it, how's cloth gonna cause one ball to literally hop straight up in the air like that, unless it's got a chunk of something acting as a ramp? But I don't think that's what we're seeing. We're seeing the backspinning cue ball being incredibly sticky on one particular area, and it is enough to lift the second cueball upwards as that sticky patch is rotating from the base of the ball to the top.
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It's definitely the balls that are the immediate cause. As you say, the cloth could not cause the contact patch to cling so badly as to throw the object ball up into the air.

But is the condition of the cloth relevantly related to the condition of the balls? Not sure about that one.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
It's definitely the balls that are the immediate cause. As you say, the cloth could not cause the contact patch to cling so badly as to throw the object ball up into the air.

But is the condition of the cloth relevantly related to the condition of the balls? Not sure about that one.

-Andrew
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I can buy that dirty cloth will transfer dirt to the balls, leading to more skids. People swear though that new cloth causes it, which I can't begin to fathom. I've heard theories on static electricity. None of them rang true to me though.
 
CreeDo said:
I can buy that dirty cloth will transfer dirt to the balls, leading to more skids. People swear though that new cloth causes it, which I can't begin to fathom. I've heard theories on static electricity. None of them rang true to me though.
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Static is far too weak to cause that effect. New cloth could conceivably have something to do with it. Perhaps it doesn't rub off the chalk left on the ball by the tip efficiently enough, since it's less abrasive. Perhaps its lack of oiliness that old cloth develops from all the sweaty bridge hands, leads to the lack of a lubricating oily coating on the ball, which mitigates the effect of chalk build-up on older cloth. I think there are probably a lot of potential indirect factors making kicks more or less likely.

-Andrew
 
dont build more into this than what really happened.he chunked the tip under the ball when he stroked it. just watch the rear of the cue when he strokes,it gets raised.operator error,not equipment malfunction.

bill
 
vasilios said:
dont build more into this than what really happened.he chunked the tip under the ball when he stroked it. just watch the rear of the cue when he strokes,it gets raised.operator error,not equipment malfunction.

bill
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I disagree. The CB does not hop until after it hits the OB. If he had miscued underneath the ball, it would have jumped up very quickly and noticeably as soon as it was struck.

-Andrew
 
CreeDo said:
Probably one of the better camera angles I've seen showcasing this. I had it in my head that skid didn't happen with draw. That would be dead wrong >_<

Skip to 1:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wro5ggxVAKE&feature=related
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Go back and watch it again, the cue ball was airborn at the time it came into contact with the red ball...which is what caused it to jump...he miss-cued on the shot;) you can not cause a ball to skid with reverse english straight on...with out having the cue ball airborn first;)

Glen
 
Andrew Manning said:
I disagree. The CB does not hop until after it hits the OB. If he had miscued underneath the ball, it would have jumped up very quickly and noticeably as soon as it was struck.

-Andrew
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The HOP of the cue ball that you're seeing...is because it's higher than the center of the object ball at the time of contact on the red....but you can't see that UNTIL it comes into contact first.
 
We get kicks like that on Simonis 860 about 2 times on average per game of one pocket. Its rediclous, the only time we dont is when the table is 100% clean, after 30 minutes we start getting the balls jumping so high you can see light under them, the OB goes dead straight and you miss the shot by 5". Thats why I'm not in favor of Simonis cloth, before on the old simonis 860 there was a bit more nap on it and I never had those problems, but here in vegas with the dry air we have to fade kicks, skids , jumps all the time. We shoot straight in shots in 1P not very hard and sometimes you can see the OB slide 8" before it starts to roll.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
Scaramouche said:
Snooker balls do lots of weird things on new cloth, and not just on the super fast stuff. Seems to be because the balls are light and skid or are airborne more. Doesn't happen with pool balls on the same cloth.
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funny thing is I have the exact table they are playing on in that video, same balls, and Strachen cloththat is one level heavier or lighter I think (i iron it, block it, the whole bit) and we seldom get kicks or skids, the balls are very light. I never realized how delicate they were the 2 1/16" balls compaired to the American 2 1/8" balls; there is a world of difference in those balls.

Its funny how I dont get many kicks here on the snooker table yet get one every 10 minutes on 860 with pool balls, 860 sucks period in dry climates.
 
Andrew Manning said:
Static is far too weak to cause that effect. New cloth could conceivably have something to do with it. Perhaps it doesn't rub off the chalk left on the ball by the tip efficiently enough, since it's less abrasive. Perhaps its lack of oiliness that old cloth develops from all the sweaty bridge hands, leads to the lack of a lubricating oily coating on the ball, which mitigates the effect of chalk build-up on older cloth. I think there are probably a lot of potential indirect factors making kicks more or less likely.

-Andrew
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we have massive static here is vegas I have real wool carpet in my bed room, when I walk down the stairs I touch brass the hand rail and can see a blue arc every time and hear the pop. In my pool table room I have super cheap thin 100% nylon carpet and we get no static at all. I cant see how static is powerfull enough to effect a pool ball, I think thats a jive notion as well
 
realkingcobra said:
Go back and watch it again, the cue ball was airborn at the time it came into contact with the red ball...which is what caused it to jump...he miss-cued on the shot;) you can not cause a ball to skid with reverse english straight on...with out having the cue ball airborn first;)

Glen
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Not a miscue, 100% kick. This is why the commentator (professional player Dominic Dale) says so right away, and why Higgins immediately has the white cleaned. If you watch enough snooker you'll know that you can absolutely get a kick on a straight screw shot in this game. The sound the balls make on contact is different and it takes most of the pace out of the cue ball. Happens a lot in snooker, nowhere near as much in pool.
 
DangerousDave said:
Not a miscue, 100% kick. This is why the commentator (professional player Dominic Dale) says so right away, and why Higgins immediately has the white cleaned. If you watch enough snooker you'll know that you can absolutely get a kick on a straight screw shot in this game. The sound the balls make on contact is different and it takes most of the pace out of the cue ball. Happens a lot in snooker, nowhere near as much in pool.
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Well...I have a $100 dollars that says you can't get the object ball to jump when being hit by the cue ball straight on with draw english WITHOUT jumping the cue ball onto the object ball first;)

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
Well...I have a $100 dollars that says you can't get the object ball to jump when being hit by the cue ball straight on with draw english WITHOUT jumping the cue ball onto the object ball first;)

Glen
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I agree with Glen. He may have just hit it low enough that the cueball miscued ever so slightly and was a hair off the cloth when it hit the red.
 
The cb is in the air.If you slow the video down you can see the cb drop down alittle as it hits the red........
 
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