Buddy Hall "Tuck & Roll"
- Thread starter marikian
- Start date
We can play any pool game on pool tables.
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Bert is pretty convincing in his video, shows how he's aiming as if it was a center ball hit, then coming offline with the cue as he's following through ....to pocket the ball and put a lot of spin on the cue ball.
He does it at distance as well...fast and slow.
As he's demonstrating it, he says that Efren and Varner use it too.
I've tried it and it works for me.
I could see how it wouldn't produce any more spin than a straight stroke would, but with a full maple shaft, I can aim for no deflection and get spin on the ball.
Colin,
I understand that it is the net of the two vectors & that the tip is actually moving in an arc.
I disagree about it being equivalent to a line through the bridge V. The net 'pivot' point could very well be & probably is in a different location than the bridge V.
I can certainly understand that thinking, though.
All I & some others can say is that we would much rather swipe than pivot the cue to an equivalent line & then either stroke that much across the vision line or to move ones vision that far off along with the back of the cue... even IF the effects & results were the same, which I think many of us certainly seem to doubt based on experience.
I understand that one can think something that is not bared out by testing but I have not seen any testing that is close to what I & SmoothStroke have spoken about.
Sometimes the technique is due to ease of perception as much as it is about the actual results but as I said, I've seen nothing that convinces me that there is not an increase in results when ALL is equally considered.
If one takes the time to really think about these types of things & ask why did the old guys do what they did when trying to get the money, I think one would realize that if there was a better way they would have found it & gravitated to it naturally without being told otherwise in either direction.
So... I guess the younger generation will not swipe any of their shots on purpose & that 'art' & the feel for that type of 'art' will be lost.
Cheers.
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Yeah, sure.......................
That means your pivot point is near your bridge and "backhand English" is working, so a swooping stroke should work almost as well as a straight one for applying squirt-corrected spin. But it won't be as reliable over the long run, and it won't be as precise in the amount of spin applied or the amount of swerve produced, and maybe other things like the amount of CB speed generated.
I understand liking to line up for centerball, but it seems to me that swooping across the centerball shot line isn't much different from angling the cue and stroking straight across it. You gotta go with what's comfortable for you, but I'd give straight-stroking backhand English a try.
pj
chgo
Joe T
Well-known member
I don't know if any of you have tried it but you can put backhand english with a straight stroke by lining up center ball and simply pivoting your body an inch or so in either direction but keeping arm in same slot. Really kind of easy and could be best of both worlds for some.
Before anyone says it, no I'm not off balanced and have never fallen over during a pool shot. Well maybe once or twice when the miss really hurt.
Before anyone says it, no I'm not off balanced and have never fallen over during a pool shot. Well maybe once or twice when the miss really hurt.
Yep, if a swooping stroke is working for you, then a straight pivoted stroke should too, and as long as your bridge doesn't move then shifting your feet/body a little to keep your stroke and stance aligned with each other works fine.
But I understand not wanting to change the stance to apply English. I'm glad I don't have to make that choice - my long pivot point isn't suited for backhand English.
pj
chgo
Ron Swanson
Banned
Good to know. English pool included then.
Go get lou's 100 large, then we can dance (until you inevitably chicken out).
I mean a pivot point that's pretty far behind my bridge (about 20" from the tip) - so awkward to pivot there.
I get that, but I think even that small movement bothers some players (maybe me included).
pj
chgo
8-10" bridge.
Very low squirt (hence the 20" pivot point). It's a custom engineered shaft built to my specs. I don't know where you'll find another like it to test with.
pj
chgo
English pool on your pub tables is an easy game.
And to the best of my knowledge that is all it was ever meant to be, a form of bhe...... funny how something so benign can cause such debating....... :thumbup:
Maybe Ding Dong Daddy says it gets more spin or whatever, but then again, Ding Dong Daddy says a lot of things.
And to the best of my knowledge that is all it was ever meant to be, a form of bhe...... funny how something so benign can cause such debating....... :thumbup:
Maybe Ding Dong Daddy says it gets more spin or whatever, but then again, Ding Dong Daddy says a lot of things.
haha....yep.
I don't think he ever said that it gave the ball more spin....just as a way to avoid deflection.
Claimed that it was the single greatest thing that he ever learned about the game of pool.
In the Buddy Hall video, he was so adamant about the 'Tuck and Roll' technique. Was as if it boggled his mind how anyone would apply spin to the ball with a straight stroke because of the deflection that you had to account for.
What part did you miss?
I have not seen anything that comes close to what I & SmoothStroke really refer to as swiping.
I've seen Dr. Dave's tests. Do you have any others in mind? If so, how do I access them?
Or a hip 'twist' with a lil bump.
I'm not knocking what you're saying....it's obvious that you've tested this quite a bit and know what you're talking about.
Personally, I find it really interesting that a study would show that it won't be as precise in the amount of spin applied and won't be as reliable in the long run......but at the same time you have a lot of world titles that were won with that technique.