But lets not forget that Buddy beat a prime Efren 23 straight times....no typo...23 straight times...
Buddy on how he'd stack up with todays players. :-)
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Anyone have a link to what they consider BH's best performance?
Most (all?) of Buddy's really kick ass play was gambling and in pre-video days. I don't know what Accustat match would be his best on video. There's quite a few of his matches on there. His US Open final against Hatch is pretty good.
While I agree that legends would be legends, I think the level of play is way higher and tighter in the modern era. I love watching the old videos Accu Stats has been uploading over the past few months/years - I like watching them more so than modern pool. But I can't help but conclude that the safety and position play (in 9 ball at least) in particular is much, much higher in today's game. The standard of kicking back in those videos simply wouldn't cut it today.
I do agree though that it's impossible to compare eras in any competitive discipline. It's more than just technology, knowledge, and human ability. It's often the number of players, how often they play, the number of tournaments, popularity of the game at any given time, etc. etc. All we can do is appreciate the legends for how they performed in their time. I think some of them really would have been timeless, like Buddy.
I do agree though that it's impossible to compare eras in any competitive discipline. It's more than just technology, knowledge, and human ability. It's often the number of players, how often they play, the number of tournaments, popularity of the game at any given time, etc. etc. All we can do is appreciate the legends for how they performed in their time. I think some of them really would have been timeless, like Buddy.
Sure its gotten better and that's why you can't compare eras in any sport. That being said champions are champions so Buddy/Sigel/Earl/Archer/Davenport/Efren would all have been monsters in any era.
Yep agreed. Some guys really are just timeless.
And a shout out to Accu Stats for capturing what it did back in the early days. There is basically not a single video of Mosconi actually playing competitive pool in his prime. We're very fortunate that isn't the case for some of the guys you mentioned.
NOT this one.
Different time altogether. Pool didn't pay much and it was a dog-eat-dog existence. The casino left themselves WIDE OPEN to something like this happening. Not defending it, just giving some context as to why. There must have been a ton bet on Mike 'cause if Buddy won he'd have made 50k iirc. I imagine when it got hill-hill a lot of people were sweating their asses off.
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Rumor has it that the bet payout was less than fifty thousand. If I were Buddy I would have insisted on the difference in first and second place off the top before splitting winnings. That would have made it nowhere near worth the bother not that it was anyway. The players crapped all over themselves and it really made no sense. Of course messing with Vito is always stupid. It certainly looks like a performance, the money was bet, but it all comes out to a very stupid move. Of course we have seen men's pro pool players crap in their nests many a time. Not the same ones each time but the players were always living on the ragged edge and anytime a little money was put up it was like blood in the water and sharks.
That was quite a performance but it got to the point of ridiculous. Worse than ridiculous it was stupid. I assume that deal was made early in the event when nobody knew who would be playing Mike but I don't know. This doesn't make sense yet it happened. One thing, as the booth's percentages indicated, none of those shots were 100%. I have seen Efren miss shots as easy. However ... Watched this to confirm it was what I figured but it damned near turns my stomach.
Hu
I thought just the tournament was 50k for 1st. Wasn't there a ton bet on the side? I don't know all the gritty details. It wasn't one of pool's better days for sure.
NOT this one for sure.
My gosh, how many balls/somewhat easy shots did both of them miss???
This sort of reminds me of why I don't run racks.
Somebody with more knowledge will probably give the straight skinny. The purse was $50,000 to win and I don't remember if it was winner take all or how it was structured. Mike was the longest shot on the board as I recall. Rumor has it that the bets were pretty small. I heard that the players only split forty some odd thousand, really a small amount all things considered.
Considering the people they took over the hurdles I wouldn't have done it if it was forty thousand to my share. I heard there were/was only one or two players not involved.
All of my knowledge is second hand and I have certainly seen weirder stuff on a pool table. Any of those shots were possible but I think the chance of all of them happening in a group would be maybe thousands to one or more. From the looks of things Mike not holding up his end really left Buddy hung out to dry. Not that he didn't deserve it if it was indeed a dump. I thought better of Buddy. All his great accomplishments and he may be more infamous for this than famous for everything else he did.
Hu
Again, the 1991 semis against Archer is one of the most deadly shootings the Rifleman ever executed...I wonder, why that is not available anymore...
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Yes, the bet payout was over forty thousand, I think forty-two but I might be wrong. That was split six or eight ways. If I remember rightly Earl for one wouldn't get involved in the dump. I think one more person claimed not to be involved too but I don't have a clue who.
The first place purse was fifty thousand, and it seems like it might have been winner take all or a pretty shallow purse. Wasn't this an invite for less than ten players? Supposedly the wives placed the bets. Another bit of stupidity. You don't piss around with the family guys in Vegas. Everything about the deal was crazy start to finish. I think this was going to be an annual event before the players fixed the tournament. It wasn't really the amount of money that they got away with, forty gees wasn't a huge amount even then. If they sliced it even it might have been about five thousand each. If they compensated Buddy for not winning the event then split the money it wasn't much at all. It was a slap in the face to some people who could get very bent about insults. The players blew at least fifty grand a year for a one time thing best I remember. I keep saying best I can remember because I really haven't thought about this in years. There are old threads on AZB giving all the details but I wouldn't have a clue how to search for them. Hard to say they are 100% accurate too.
If some people that I respect hadn't basically verified the story I would think it was BS, it doesn't really make sense.
Hu
From the looks of it, Mike wasn't involved either
Buddy kept trying to scratch on every shot.
Everybody talks shit about Earl and he's the only one that wouldn't dump.
That means only 2k was put up, bunch of broke ass players
From the looks of it, Mike wasn't involved either
Buddy kept trying to scratch on every shot.
Everybody talks shit about Earl and he's the only one that wouldn't dump.
That means only 2k was put up, bunch of broke ass players
You made me really laugh out loud but Mike was quite reasonably scared shitless. Buddy was a fine example of your unconscious trying to correct the mistakes your conscious was making, or so it appeared.
The casinos lost more than the sting was on the flip of a card or the toss of the dice sometimes but they also got badly bent out of shape over pocket change. I was surprised the pool players got off as lightly as they did. A lot of things I might do but pissing with the families wasn't one of them. A local family owned the Port Allen strip, all but one tiny bar. The strip was if not one of the most dangerous places on earth, at least one of the most dangerous in the US. Being half Sicilian I paid my respects every time I went in one of their places. I wanted to be known as a good boy especially to the one responsible for "unaliving" at least a handful of people.
I'm about ready to go on a rant about that made up word. Even animals "unalive" other animals now. The folks in media have decided it isn't PC to say kill or murder or any of the old words for making somebody or something dead. One day I'll be reading they didn't kill millions of people in various purges, they unalived them!
Anyway, I am surprised some pool players weren't badly bruised at the least. Not for the amount, for the lack of respect. The players probably helped balance the books for the general public betting heavily on Buddy. By the finals I would think almost anyone not involved would have been emptying out on Buddy.
Hu
A new Pool hall opened up in my area a few months ago and they have diamonds with 4 1/8 inch pockets. Everyone that plays their regularly adjusted after a little bit of time. Not to say that it isn’t tough. But I just laugh when people think that world champions wouldn’t have adjusted to today’s conditions.
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