Burned...

Hidy Ho said:
No .. the onus is on the SHIPPER to make sure he's protected in case something bad happens.

It's shipper's responsibility to make sure the item gets to the buyer. And when it doesn't (like this case) the shipper should provide evidence of shipping (self-generated label or post office receipt - both will show weight of the box) and evidence of receipt (signature required). Shipper can get insurance or bear the risk of not insuring the item. If seller can't provide this, the seller should provide immediate refund to the buyer.

If I were the buyer in this case and the seller is not being cooperative, I'd start the PayPal dispute. If he paid with credit card (which is a smart thing to do), he should also inform his credit card issuer.


Hidy Ho <--- often insist on shipping method that is tracked but never insurance when buying (however, do both when selling)
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Hidy, It depends on the shipping terms that were negotiated. In this case odiously shipping terms were not discussed. A global reference is Incoterms. If you want to trust the shipper more power to you. But for my money I will protect myself and discuss shipping terms prior to any transaction.

Did you pick the Ebony or the Cocobolo?

In this case Seba declared how it would be shipped and that it would be insured.
 
kickshotkid said:
So I paid 265 for a tiger tcp2 butt from Nycustomcues seller on here and the package showed up empty with the lid missing, the postman just left it aside my door and was gone by the time I opened the door. The big problem is the seller did not insure the cue and did not offer insurance. So the seller claims the post office is saying the package felt 2lbs and the lid was on when they dropped it. There is no way the post office is going to refund my money and I am sure they are not evening looking for the cue. So I messaged NYcustomcues and explained that we need to come up with a resolution and I would even be ok with a half refund incase the post office screwed up and is covering there own butts, but NYcustomcues is not cooperating at all at this point. Since I never actually received my item and the seller didn't insure or offer insurance shouldn't they be responsible for at least half of the hit? Paypal is also no help I tried to file a case with them but they actually said they will not file the case. I completely feel taken for a ride as I waited for over a month for the post office and the seller to do what was right. The seller was assuring me that he had been through this before and the post office would find the cue and that if they didn't he would replace it. Now Nycustomcues isn't even returning my messages. I don't know, I have bought and sold some cues and other stuff on here and eBay and if I were the seller I would at least try to come up with a resolution where my customer didn't get completely screwed. Does anyone have any advice or has anyone had this happen before? Please don't think I am trying to drag NYcustomcues through the mud, I am not slamming him here, I am just telling sharing my experience and looking for some advice...
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In my opinion as a seller I WILL NEVER SHIP AN ITEM UNLESS IT IS INSURED OR I AM PREPARED TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY IF THE ITEM IS LOST OR DAMAGED.

In addition until a buyer has received the item in the described condition that the transaction stated he assumes no responsibility, unless he tells the seller that he will not pay for insurance.

However, even then I still would place responsibility upon the seller, because he could force the issue or not sell to that buyer in the first place.

This is how I have done business and will continue to do so, I think if you sell something you must insured that in arives as described and that takes insurance.

JIMO
 
manwon said:
In my opinion as a seller I WILL NEVER SHIP AN ITEM UNLESS IT IS INSURED OR I AM PREPARED TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY IF THE ITEM IS LOST OR DAMAGED.

In addition until a buyer has received the item in the described condition that the transaction stated he assumes no responsibility, unless he tells the seller that he will not pay for insurance.

However, even then I still would place responsibility upon the seller, because he could force the issue or not sell to that buyer in the first place.

This is how I have done business and will continue to do so, I think if you sell something you must insured that in arives as described and that takes insurance.

JIMO
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You are a quality seller but not everyone is.
 
Have you checked into homeowners insurance?
It probably won't cover it but I have heard of it paying for some crazy stuff .
Won't hurt to try.
 
The package usually gets marked for damage or if it shows up to a destination with a discrepancy.... No offense but there is no way to know if the cue showed up with no issues and you are trying to keep the cue and get half the money back...... I am truly sorry if that's not the case but I can understand the sellers side of the issue as well.....
 
Hungarian Nut said:
True story. Around 1992 I bought 2 cues and a case from Whitey Walker in Houston for $1,000. One was a Richard Black Hoppe and the other was a Schon Purple Heart into BEM with about 35 pieces of ivory. I am not sure why he sold them to me so cheap. Maybe he was broke but I don't think so since he busted everyone in Houston. I sold the Black for $750 and still have the case.

I sent the Schon back to Schon in Milwaukee to have a leather wrap put on it. I sent it DHL overnight. Before I shipped it I checked what the retail price was. It was like $1,700. So I insured it for $2K. The package made it to DHL's hub in Milwaukee and it disappeared.

About 1 week after I filed my claim I had a check for $2K from DHL.

Moral to the story is always insure it. And if it is real expensive send it overnight and don't use the USPS because from what I have heard it's like pulling teeth to get paid from the USPS. Ever wonder why the USPS insurance is so cheap? It's because they are self insured.

DHL, Fedex, UPS, etc have real insurance, hence the reason it costs so much to insure with them. If I recall the insurance cost from DHL cost like $75 to insure the package for $2K.
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I hear what you are saying, but that was your cue in your possesion that you shipped. my situation is a bit different, I paid for the cue but I did not posess it. I also did not and handle the shipping. Although I do agree about getting insurance when shiping a cue and every time I have been a seller or shipped my own cue I insure them. I would have paid for insurance if it would have been offered, and I would have asked for insurance if I would have thought about it.
By the way 265 may be small potatoes to some one that has 2000 dollar cues but I don't, 265 is plenty of money to me I have 3 cues and together I don't think they are worth 2000. $2000 is literally all the money i have to my name.
 
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Hidy Ho said:
No .. the onus is on the SHIPPER to make sure he's protected in case something bad happens.

It's shipper's responsibility to make sure the item gets to the buyer. And when it doesn't (like this case) the shipper should provide evidence of shipping (self-generated label or post office receipt - both will show weight of the box) and evidence of receipt (signature required). Shipper can get insurance or bear the risk of not insuring the item. If seller can't provide this, the seller should provide immediate refund to the buyer.

If I were the buyer in this case and the seller is not being cooperative, I'd start the PayPal dispute. If he paid with credit card (which is a smart thing to do), he should also inform his credit card issuer.


Hidy Ho <--- often insist on shipping method that is tracked but never insurance when buying (however, do both when selling)
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+2 This is the only thing that matters. The shipper has to protect themselves from the following situations;

Carrier Damage.
Carrier Theft.
Receiver Fraud.

Insurance covers most of this.

The receiver has no possible way to know that the item was placed in the package. The receiver has no way to control the carrier's handling of the package. The receiver has nothing until the package and it's contents are in his hands. The shipping company is hired at the direction of the shipper and is their agent. As their agent they assume the same responsibility as if the shipper were to drive the item to the receiver himself.

Would any of you drive to a person's house whom you sold a cue to, find no one home and leave the package on the porch with no verbal communication with the receiver? Would the receiver be responsible if he returned home to find an empty package?

This is a very simple equation. A cue was paid for. The cue was not received. The seller is out the money and the buyer is due a refund or a replacement. This is how every upstanding mail order company in America handles their business if something is lost or stolen in transit.

Which is why they build the small cost of insurance into the price of shipping unless the cost to replace the item is less than the cost to insure it.
 
I cannot seem to find the thread now.....but am I the only one who thinks this sounds strangely familiar?

Lisa
 
The Renfro said:
The package usually gets marked for damage or if it shows up to a destination with a discrepancy.... No offense but there is no way to know if the cue showed up with no issues and you are trying to keep the cue and get half the money back...... I am truly sorry if that's not the case but I can understand the sellers side of the issue as well.....
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I am sorry but I do Take offense. The way you know it happened is because (A) I said it did and I have perfect itrader buying and selling on here and on ebay I have over 100 buying and selling transactions on here and ebay and nor one return or claim like this (B) what would be the point of me giving someone 265 just to ask for it back. I am not a con man but I know giving someone money just to ask for it back doesn't get you anywhere, that kind of scam would only make any sense if it were insured, not to mention it's the dumbest thing I have ever herd (C) as I told the seller I will answer any questions he wanted I will even take a lie detecter or what ever.
 
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How can NYCustomcues know if you did or did not receive the cue? You could be trying to pull a fast one. I agree that the postal service would not accept and ship a parcel that had nothing in it and no lid on it. You're laying blame on NYCustomcues, but do you think that they are inexperienced in shipping their product?
No, something happened between the time the post office accepted the cue and when you took it from beside your door. Totally the postal service's fault. No fault of NYCustomcues.
 
When will people learn, do not use the USPS go to UPS or FedEx, not only is their service better, their refund policy even though it still takes a while is far superior as well.
 
Shortside K said:
How can NYCustomcues know if you did or did not receive the cue? You could be trying to pull a fast one. I agree that the postal service would not accept and ship a parcel that had nothing in it and no lid on it. You're laying blame on NYCustomcues, but do you think that they are inexperienced in shipping their product?
No, something happened between the time the post office accepted the cue and when you took it from beside your door. Totally the postal service's fault. No fault of NYCustomcues.
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Ok first off this crap about me pretending to not have received the cue is ridiculous. There are two scams in this kind of situation. One, you make sure the item has insurance and you do what is called an insurance scam. Two as a seller after you get paid you don't ship the item. Can you see the similarities in these two scams? No, well the similarities are you never put anything out to lose, that’s how scams work. Not paying someone and then hoping they are a good guy and will pay. If I wanted to gamble I would play poker much better odds. Now as I said in the beginning I am not slinging mud I am not blaming him for the missing cue, my beef is he has done nothing to try to find the cue, listen to me, replace the cue, or refund my money. And out of all those things that I listed all I want is the original cue, I would be way more then happy if he would back me on fighting with the post office to find my missing cue, that is all I really want, Which is why I tried to buy the damn thing in the first place. But if the post office doesn't find the cue I paid for why is it you think I should lose the 265 dollars I paid exactly? So let me get this straight since the post office messed up and the SHIPPER didn't insure or offer insurance for the CUE HE SHIPPED I should get nothing and the two people that messed up should get my money... I will make sure never to buy from you. BTW I also offered a half refund which at worst he would break even and I WOULD LOSE 132.5 as I have already stated.
 
kickshotkid said:
Ok first off this crap about me pretending to not have received the cue is ridiculous. There are two scams in this kind of situation. One, you make sure the item has insurance and you do what is called an insurance scam. Two as a seller after you get paid you don't ship the item. Can you see the similarities in these two scams? No, well the similarities are you never put anything out to lose, that’s how scams work. Not paying someone and then hoping they are a good guy and will pay. If I wanted to gamble I would play poker much better odds. Now as I said in the beginning I am not slinging mud I am not blaming him for the missing cue, my beef is he has done nothing to try to find the cue, listen to me, replace the cue, or refund my money. And out of all those things that I listed all I want is the original cue, I would be way more then happy if he would back me on fighting with the post office to find my missing cue, that is all I really want, Which is why I tried to buy the damn thing in the first place. But if the post office doesn't find the cue I paid for why is it you think I should lose the 265 dollars I paid exactly? So let me get this straight since the post office messed up and the SHIPPER didn't insure or offer insurance for the CUE HE SHIPPED I should get nothing and the two people that messed up should get my money... I will make sure never to buy from you. BTW I also offered a half refund which at worst he would break even and I WOULD LOSE 132.5 as I have already stated.
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the only option you have is a claim with the post office.wait and hope!
a cue can be damaged so easily in shipping,that doing insurance is a must.fedx and ups with double insurance,you will get paid.the post office is pretty much a no win situation.

bill
 
Georgia Boy said:
When will people learn, do not use the USPS go to UPS or FedEx, not only is their service better, their refund policy even though it still takes a while is far superior as well.
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Actually some of those services use the post office they just take to and pick it up from the PO, but there insurance policy are probably much better.
 
I 100% blame Nycustomcues they are the experts, they first must have insured it (regardless of what you choose), 2nd must have asked for signature at delivery. They must refund you if not a new cue, at least a substitute cue or some kind of refund. Good luck, :frown:
 
For the guys saying the buyer could be pulling a scam, that's what signature confirmation is for. If you insure the cue and pay for a signature (it costs like $1), then once the buyer signs it is on him. That way, the shipper can't leave it and run. The person has a chance to inspect the item and not sign for it if it is damaged/missing.

If they sign for it and then say it's not there, that's their problem. That's the only way to stop these situations from happening. I always pay for insurance when I am selling. I sold a cheap cue a few weeks ago and still bought insurance, it cost $3.

To me, it's worth the few extra dollars to not have to deal with these problems. If I get signature require service, I know the buyer can't come back and say they didn't receive it or that it was damaged. It's on them.
 
Facts, as I understand them:

1. NYCustomcues put a sealed container with something inside, presumable a cue, into the hands of USPS, destined for kickshotkid.

2. The postage paid would have been based on weight and both the departure and arrival zip codes. It would be easy to verify whether the postage fee matched the package's received weight.

3. It is a near impossibility that the post office would take in a package with a missing lid and no contents. See item #2 regarding weight/postage fee.

4. In my experience, the very few times that I have received any messed up packages from the postal service, there has been either an attached note or a stamp stating something about the damage. That your package arrived with no lid or contents, it is alarming there was no note or stamp indicating a problem.

5. That NYCustomcues doesn't (didn't) offer insurance is foolish. At least give the customer the option to protect the package for the couple of bucks it costs with the clear understanding that they (the customer) assume the risk if they decline it. OR, just insure every package and add the couple of bucks into the price.

From NYCustomcues perspective, they undoubtedly feel like they fulfilled their end of the bargain by mailing the cue. Added to that is the possibility, albeit remote, that the recipient may be attempting a scam. I'm not saying this my feelings, just saying it's part of what the people at NYCustomcues have to consider.

If I were the seller, I would take you up on your suggestion of a 50% settlement. I would chalk it up to a lesson learned and from this point forward, no package would leave my shop without either mandatory insurance or a signed (or emailed) acknowledgement from the buyer, declining it with the understanding if something bad happens, it's on them.

If I were the op, I'd immediately be going to see the Postmaster at the PO that delivered the empty package and have him track down the mailman who left the package at your door. See if that mailman recalls delivering the empty package. At least press them to do an investigation over this.

Also to the op, in any future dealings you can always ask a seller to insure a package and pay them the fee. Avoiding problems like the one you're in now is well worth it.

Good luck in finding resolution.

Best,
Brian kc
 
Highly unlikely USPS would leave a open and empty box for delivery. PayPal won't pay because the shipper, USPS, reported the package Delivered... and even if it did have insurance...good luck on collecting it. UPS has $100 free insurance on all packages, USPS does not.
 
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