I've never seen one that looks Palmer/Paradise like this one, but what do I know?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150132143461
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150132143461
Bushka on eBay
- Thread starter kvinbrwr
- Start date
viking/national even maybe ?.?.?.?.
kvinbrwr said:
Yeah, Fats was no dummy.....doubt he would have just given up a Bushka in that manner
Sounds a little bully
Minisota Fats was a player. He wasn't the bumb that had a T.V. show. The Fat man on T.V. sued the real Minasota fats because he wanted exclusivity to the name the the player had made for himself and won or so the story goes.
If he beat the origional Fats he beat a stone player. But Most insiders knew that the Fats on T.V. was a no playing bumb that would not match up with anything with a pulse.
So I find it funny that the seller didn't mention that he beat the real Fatman. Because the famous Minisota fats had on chance of getting to the finals in a Weenie Beanie tournament.
I also see the cue is missing the brown bumper, unusual for a retired cue and the ferrels look non ivoy.
To me it looks like a Doc Frey cue.
Nick
Minisota Fats was a player. He wasn't the bumb that had a T.V. show. The Fat man on T.V. sued the real Minasota fats because he wanted exclusivity to the name the the player had made for himself and won or so the story goes.
If he beat the origional Fats he beat a stone player. But Most insiders knew that the Fats on T.V. was a no playing bumb that would not match up with anything with a pulse.
So I find it funny that the seller didn't mention that he beat the real Fatman. Because the famous Minisota fats had on chance of getting to the finals in a Weenie Beanie tournament.
I also see the cue is missing the brown bumper, unusual for a retired cue and the ferrels look non ivoy.
To me it looks like a Doc Frey cue.
Nick
kvinbrwr said:
I e-mailed him and expect a bad response. I thought maybe he got taken 40 years ago, but his story seems to indicate something different.
It's not a Palmer or a Paradise. It has a vinyl inlay forearm, which means late 1960's to mid 1970's, National, or Viking, or a custom using WICO parts. If I had to guess, I would say Viking, but I've seen a similar joint on a few customs too.
Chris
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cueaddicts said:Yeah, Fats was no dummy.....doubt he would have just given up a Bushka in that manner
LOL. I love Fatty giving the cue as a gift because the seller beat him. It calls the whole thing into question as we all know, Fats NEVER lost. On a serious note however, is this a Paradise?
nick serdula said:Minisota Fats was a player. He wasn't the bumb that had a T.V. show. The Fat man on T.V. sued the real Minasota fats because he wanted exclusivity to the name the the player had made for himself and won or so the story goes.
If he beat the origional Fats he beat a stone player. But Most insiders knew that the Fats on T.V. was a no playing bumb that would not match up with anything with a pulse.
So I find it funny that the seller didn't mention that he beat the real Fatman. Because the famous Minisota fats had on chance of getting to the finals in a Weenie Beanie tournament.
I also see the cue is missing the brown bumper, unusual for a retired cue and the ferrels look non ivoy.
To me it looks like a Doc Frey cue.
Nick
I'm thinking I remember the author of the Hustler, Walter Tevis, (a great read along with the Color of Money and a GREAT book about a female chess player) had a forward in the Color of Money where he claimed he created Minn. Fats after the real player New York Fats. He was specific about pointing out that Wonderone took his name after the movie, and was definately not the Fats from his book or the movie.
Fatty hustled every nickel he had ever had, why would he GIVE away a cue after getting second place money back then. make's no sense.
I think someone sold it to this guy and made up a story...
I think someone sold it to this guy and made up a story...
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kvinbrwr said:
Frank stopped making cues and died around the earliest time period this forearm could have been made and you would not find any of those joint parts on a Paradise. The greatest odds are this cue was made in the 1969 to 1975 time period. None of the story the seller gave jives with what we see on this cue.
There are a great many Adam, Viking, Rich, and National cues mis-identified as Palmers and Paradise, as well as customs made by some obscure cue makers in New Jersey who at one time or another worked for Paradise and Palmer. A casual glance is not enough to assume an ID because there are so many look-likes from that era.
Chris
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One reason so many were alike is something almost never mentioned. Gordon Hart himself told me that Viking used to be a main cue parts supplier. That is why Gandy and many other cues looked just like Vikings. Gordon told me they used to have a catalog for parts, but got out of it. I wish I had gotten the years from him that he did this. Also according to Bob Meucci Wico never made point blanks. He says he made them as a sideline business while working for Wico. He gave the seemless plastic veneers idea to Gordon after he decided he didn't really want to make his that way. He says he perfected the seemless plastic veneers after a challenge from Burton Spain. I definitely think this cue is made from Viking parts.TATE said:
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
cueman said:
They cancelled the lsting - what a scam.
Chris, your story is exceedingly helpful. You mentioned this once before, and it cleared up a lot of mysteries for me.
Despite their need for colorful veneers and ebony points, Palmer decided to discontinue use of the vinyl inlaid forearms from WICO because they were concerned the vinyl would deteriorate or separate over the years. I only have one Palmer with the WICO points and it is in perfect shape. It is also the only Palmer I have with a ring ahead of the wrap. I don't think there should have been a concern because they seem to have held up fine.
When making these forearms, I guess the vinyl was cast in an "L" shape and stacked up and glued, then set in the V groove and turned - is that your understanding too? There are no miter lines at all.
Chris
Bob told me Burton was making colored epoxy formed V's to go in the point grooves to eliminate the mitre lines, but was getting bubbles. He thought it impossible to do any better. So Bob found some plastic extruders to make plastic extruded to perfect V's in many colors, which eliminated the bubble problems. He did say finding the right glue was the hard part, but finally came up with the right glue, (which he did not say what was) and went on from there. He preferred the mitered wood veneers, so he quit using the plastic veneers. Viking then took off with it and made all those three pointers you see of theirs with those plastic veneers.TATE said:
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