Well said. Your theory on someone wanting to re-develop the entire site is probably pretty close to what's going on.
Butera's closing.....
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
The latest rates I can find on the property are $2/sqft/mo. Leases seem to be about $20/sqft/year. I don't know if that's high for a pool room or not.
Anyone that thinks "Biden" or "Trump" is the issue isn't looking at the big picture.What's that got to do with a business owner who can't fade the rent?? Its quite possible the landlord did try to help out. I have no idea and no one else on here does either. WTH, the NatDebt is already at stratospheric levels and this idiot Biden is gonna pile on more so why not just bail-out all the struggling room owners? MAGA- Make Action Great Again.
Billiards is about angles more than strategy but being good at pool doesn't make a good chess player.
That was actually the nicest room in Southern California I think. Not the best location but can't think of a better room in S. Cal. Plenty of strong players. Decent 9-ball tourneys and one pocket. Sal is a great guy. His business was actually growing consistently prior to the pandemic. Hope he bounces back.
Texas is closer to purple than red, and as urban population grows, the bluer it will become. Votes are counted by population not by the area the people occupy.
The only solution to the growing tax problem is for cities to stop growing !!
I grew up n a town of 7,000 people as a suburb of a city with 40,000 people. 50 years later, the city has 40,000 people and the town has 14,000. No new schools have needed to be built, no new roads, few buildings,..... all of this leads to low and stable taxes. On the other hand--if you lived there--you would have to actually live there.......
Austin is projected to be the largest growing city in the nation (%-age wise) over the next 20-30 years. Luckily I have multiple dwellings I can sell to finance my retirement and pax taxes. I expect tht my current propery will more than double in value about the time I need to start unloading it.
The lawyers who make $1000/hr have convinced the people that make $15/hr that the problem is the people that make only $7.50/hr.
That's a better rate than what they were charging a year ago, although rates vary with location of course. I see some areas where commercial space is down to $1.50/sqft/mo. or $18/yr. A medium sized poolroom/sports bar could be anywhere from 5,000-7,500 square feet. Anything over 10,000 square feet is big. Hard Times was just under 15,000. California Billiards is over 10,000 I'm sure. My last poolroom had 16 nine foot tables, 2 bar tables and a ping pong table, plus a dozen video games and juke box. We had a bar that sat ten people and served beer and wine only. All this in 7,000 ft. There was room for a cocktail table and four bar stools at each pool table. My rent was low, under $1/ft. A business that size can generate $1,000 a day (or more) with a limited food menu. That will turn a nice profit. If you add liquor that can double your income.
My landlord cut my rent drastically over the past year and gave me several months free. Now we are working on a new 5 year lease that includes a plan if covid restrictions affect us in next few years.
What tenant would agree to rent anything under current times? It's a two way street and with the glut of available retail spaces coming...the values have dropped.
We are going to lose a bunch of pool halls. Especially those in high rent areas. A real shame.
That's really too bad.
I played in that room a couple of times and IMO they had THE best playing Diamonds I've ever played on, even better than the ones straight from the factory at the DCC. They were a total pleasure to play on.
Lou Figueroa
In a free market the ONLY way to make money is helping others first, not screwing them out of a buck.
In a govt controlled market, however, the way to get money is to steal it via the govt legislation. You can be labeled a hero not a criminal and you get the good looking women, too.
Remember, that the middle class is a result of the market, not the govt. Middle class is rich, compared to previous times. But, yeah, it's disappearing for the reason stated here.
Jeff Livingston
When interest rates inevitably rise, property values could plummet.
Jeff Livingston
The odd thing is we are in an economical anomaly that's completely unsustainable.
This pool hall closing is a symptom of an economical disease that, currently, has no cure.
It's going to get ugly.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
How many first class pool halls has Covid claimed to this point? How many more will close if the pandemic continues for 6 more months? Another year? How long will it take for 75% of pool players to financially recover to the point they will be able to spend the same amount of money on pool as they did before? This is why it is time to think outside of the box. I am afraid that our sport is in real danger. What can we do? Is there anyone who believes pool can survive without pool halls?
Sure, we might have bar boxes in bars, but are bars going to have 9 footers? Are bars going to support tournaments? I know nothing about pool beyond our US model. Has pool flourished outside of the US without pool halls? I would like to hear about such other models, because we are really going to need something.
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The 2nd draw of funding opened up on PPP, easy application, money in a week or so. Funding is based on the first draw, using original documentation. Use the same bank as original.
Hopefully it will get people through to summer. New simplified forgiveness just implemented too. I encourage any business owner to look into it.
I would say that's about right. His location is good and Moorpark is one of those growing communities. Commercial Rents there have probably doubled there since Sal started. APA leagues were a chunk of his business and even when they were playing, they don't pay much.
he is going so its written in stone, but as jay said there are many places all over the country with empty commercial space that would work well for a pool room. and now is the time to get a lease on one if you are ever going to start a pool room.
which is of course a recipe for low earnings and an eventual closing with little money to show for it.
unless you are a super business person and can extract all the money out of what you have going for you.
which is of course a recipe for low earnings and an eventual closing with little money to show for it.
unless you are a super business person and can extract all the money out of what you have going for you.
Here's the reality.
If you set up business in a non-essential industry, you should be ready for economic setbacks.
Whether a pool hall, dining, or Starbucks, disposable income disappearing will ruin a non-essential business.
Add in the comments about leagues, and you can look at bowling Alleys as an example of where things are headed. You used to be able to buy cheap pool cues and bowling shoes/balls at Kmart. Nobody buys either anymore.
Bowling alleys are closing all over. In Portland Oregon, there used to be a few dozen. Now you're lucky to find one.
As for Pool Halls, we had a few and they pop up from time to time but many of the pool halls end up with a clique that runs the place. You walk in to an established pool hall and you feel like an outsider. Not to mention it's WAY cheaper to play pool to rid oneself of boredom on a bar table than a pool hall.
Then the leagues. Just like the leagues that kept bowling alleys running, they stopped looking for people to play leagues. I haven't seen a billiard league advertised EVER other than, maybe, a scrawl on a chalkboard in a bar. Only one time, in all my 30+ years of playing, have I been approached to play in a league. At the time I was broke and just divorced so I didn't know my path in life. And to be honest, that particular night I was getting somewhere with a woman who was a lot younger than me and three times as attractive. Joining a league was the last thing on my mind that night.
If leagues want players, they need to ATTRACT players. Now that I'm heading down the hill I would feel uncomfortable being a mediocre player in a league of 20-30 somethings.
Since I don't go to the bars much, and my main pool buddy is a cheapass mofo, we aren't likely to see the inside of a pool hall.
I will say that the one we played at 30+ years ago is still going though. They must be doing something right.
The other place we played at frequently just went out of business. They were a small hole in the wall bar with a couple old tables. One time 20 years ago their table was so bad that I offered to refelt for free it if they bought the felt. I am pretty sure they had that felt on the table for 10 years before replacing it after a new buyer purchased the place.
A couple times a week I drive past a billiard supply store. One day, when covid eases up, I might stop in to see if they have information on leagues or whatnot.
If you set up business in a non-essential industry, you should be ready for economic setbacks.
Whether a pool hall, dining, or Starbucks, disposable income disappearing will ruin a non-essential business.
Add in the comments about leagues, and you can look at bowling Alleys as an example of where things are headed. You used to be able to buy cheap pool cues and bowling shoes/balls at Kmart. Nobody buys either anymore.
Bowling alleys are closing all over. In Portland Oregon, there used to be a few dozen. Now you're lucky to find one.
As for Pool Halls, we had a few and they pop up from time to time but many of the pool halls end up with a clique that runs the place. You walk in to an established pool hall and you feel like an outsider. Not to mention it's WAY cheaper to play pool to rid oneself of boredom on a bar table than a pool hall.
Then the leagues. Just like the leagues that kept bowling alleys running, they stopped looking for people to play leagues. I haven't seen a billiard league advertised EVER other than, maybe, a scrawl on a chalkboard in a bar. Only one time, in all my 30+ years of playing, have I been approached to play in a league. At the time I was broke and just divorced so I didn't know my path in life. And to be honest, that particular night I was getting somewhere with a woman who was a lot younger than me and three times as attractive. Joining a league was the last thing on my mind that night.
If leagues want players, they need to ATTRACT players. Now that I'm heading down the hill I would feel uncomfortable being a mediocre player in a league of 20-30 somethings.
Since I don't go to the bars much, and my main pool buddy is a cheapass mofo, we aren't likely to see the inside of a pool hall.
I will say that the one we played at 30+ years ago is still going though. They must be doing something right.
The other place we played at frequently just went out of business. They were a small hole in the wall bar with a couple old tables. One time 20 years ago their table was so bad that I offered to refelt for free it if they bought the felt. I am pretty sure they had that felt on the table for 10 years before replacing it after a new buyer purchased the place.
A couple times a week I drive past a billiard supply store. One day, when covid eases up, I might stop in to see if they have information on leagues or whatnot.