Buyer Beware of "the_general"
- Thread starter 1glibby1
- Start date
is it possible to give this family a break! why not instead of giving them a hard time lets just hope for the better of this family.
if azmembers will not allow them to sell or neither advertise how can they cope up with all the orders that they have to send to there customers.
i know how badly azmembers feel when you get ripped off " THE GENERAL ". BUT DONT DO THIS TO A FAMILY OF CUE MAKERS. who is only trying to make an honest living. bebot is trying to make sure all his children and grand children are well taken care off.
to mr murphy: just imagine this if you banned them from selling cues , how would they feel? they did not do any wrong to you personally.
isn't it better that there still posting cues for sale meaning that there not running away from there customers. we shouldn't judged this family for they haven't committed a crime to you or there customers.
you want something TRUE , ill give you something to think about.
the cue that you receive from " THE GENERAL " is considered stolen or have not been payed by the general to bebot bautista. the story of that cue is a show cue that was requested by the general to make him a pink ivory but it turn out that the family found out that is already being sold here in az. bebot didn't receive any form of payment for that cue.
and now that cue is in your hand, what do you think should we call it ?
stolen? unpaid?
im sorry to bring this up but i cannot just read here and don't say anything. this family are not just my cue maker but a friend as well.
if azmembers will not allow them to sell or neither advertise how can they cope up with all the orders that they have to send to there customers.
i know how badly azmembers feel when you get ripped off " THE GENERAL ". BUT DONT DO THIS TO A FAMILY OF CUE MAKERS. who is only trying to make an honest living. bebot is trying to make sure all his children and grand children are well taken care off.
to mr murphy: just imagine this if you banned them from selling cues , how would they feel? they did not do any wrong to you personally.
isn't it better that there still posting cues for sale meaning that there not running away from there customers. we shouldn't judged this family for they haven't committed a crime to you or there customers.
you want something TRUE , ill give you something to think about.
the cue that you receive from " THE GENERAL " is considered stolen or have not been payed by the general to bebot bautista. the story of that cue is a show cue that was requested by the general to make him a pink ivory but it turn out that the family found out that is already being sold here in az. bebot didn't receive any form of payment for that cue.
and now that cue is in your hand, what do you think should we call it ?
stolen? unpaid?
im sorry to bring this up but i cannot just read here and don't say anything. this family are not just my cue maker but a friend as well.
Daigoro, Maybe if you were to send me $1000 dollars (full payment in advance) based on the Cuemakers quality and history, and design a cue with me specific to your wants, be promised that cue in an agreed upon time, and sit until that date passes and only then start to receive updates on the weather and the delays and the rain, and when finally you are so tired of the game with these people 7000 miles away........you find out that this same duo has done this to 10 other members........then maybe you have the right to sign up and submit your input.
It makes me ill to see Mervin selling his fathers cues to other members, all the time pm'ing me privatly that he wishes things were different and hopes he can do something to calm all these issues.
As far as I'm concerned Les and Bebot have been nothing more than a "good cop" "bad cop" in this whole ordeal. Before I could get a price for my cue I wanted to order, Bebot had to confirm the design....he priced it out and Les was his salesman. I bought both of them when the cue was confirmed.....not just Les. I say get Bebots cues off AZ no matter who is selling them. Obviously he allows anyone to represent him without risk of being responsible.
Shoot fish from another barrel I say!!!!
greg libby
It makes me ill to see Mervin selling his fathers cues to other members, all the time pm'ing me privatly that he wishes things were different and hopes he can do something to calm all these issues.
As far as I'm concerned Les and Bebot have been nothing more than a "good cop" "bad cop" in this whole ordeal. Before I could get a price for my cue I wanted to order, Bebot had to confirm the design....he priced it out and Les was his salesman. I bought both of them when the cue was confirmed.....not just Les. I say get Bebots cues off AZ no matter who is selling them. Obviously he allows anyone to represent him without risk of being responsible.
Shoot fish from another barrel I say!!!!
greg libby
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This whole situation is terrible. You can call it "racist" to be leary about ordering cues overseas, but I'll be damned if I'm going to send money Western Union to some donkey in Asia and HOPE he makes me a cue. I'm sorry, but someones reputation on an online internet forum is not enough for me to send my $$$$.
I'm glad that the OP shared this story with us. If you want to support and give your business to cuemakers abroad instead of domestically, you have to remember that you're taking a risk. There's no method of ensuring that you will receive anything in return. Even if you pay 50% upfront...what difference does that make? So, they were only able to steal 50% of your money?
For the reason that pool is dying and cuemakers need work, and that I don't want to get ripped off, I'll be keeping my business here at home.
I hope this situation works out, but judging by the lack of response and the skating around the issues, my guess is that it's a plain ol' rip off. Shouldn't be allowed to sell cues on AZB anymore. I'd hope that the moderators around here wouldn't want to be running a site riddled with scammers.
I'm glad that the OP shared this story with us. If you want to support and give your business to cuemakers abroad instead of domestically, you have to remember that you're taking a risk. There's no method of ensuring that you will receive anything in return. Even if you pay 50% upfront...what difference does that make? So, they were only able to steal 50% of your money?
For the reason that pool is dying and cuemakers need work, and that I don't want to get ripped off, I'll be keeping my business here at home.
I hope this situation works out, but judging by the lack of response and the skating around the issues, my guess is that it's a plain ol' rip off. Shouldn't be allowed to sell cues on AZB anymore. I'd hope that the moderators around here wouldn't want to be running a site riddled with scammers.
Ouch
Laserbrn i agree with you if someone here is getting ripped off the source of that shouldn't be allowed to do business until all members are straighten out with either what they paid for or a full refund of $$$
this is a forum of friends not ripoffs and those who oversee the site should always being looking out for those of us who are considered the goodguys
Laserbrn i agree with you if someone here is getting ripped off the source of that shouldn't be allowed to do business until all members are straighten out with either what they paid for or a full refund of $$$
this is a forum of friends not ripoffs and those who oversee the site should always being looking out for those of us who are considered the goodguys
Time To Buy Americn Made in the USA Cues Only
With all of the great and talented cuemakers here in the US, it's time to keep business state side to better support our economy and the American cue makers rather than send dollars overseas or anyhwere outside the US. I know the secondary cue market does little in the way of supporting our economy but there are cue dealers that depend on this for a livelihood and of course, all new cue orders do even more. But sending moola outside the US when so many greta cuemakers are available, it doesn't seem to mmake much sense but I suppose it doesn't have to since it's not mu dough being spent.
With all of the great and talented cuemakers here in the US, it's time to keep business state side to better support our economy and the American cue makers rather than send dollars overseas or anyhwere outside the US. I know the secondary cue market does little in the way of supporting our economy but there are cue dealers that depend on this for a livelihood and of course, all new cue orders do even more. But sending moola outside the US when so many greta cuemakers are available, it doesn't seem to mmake much sense but I suppose it doesn't have to since it's not mu dough being spent.
I'm sure you mean well, but it sounds as though you have no dog in this fight (i.e., you haven't been jerked around by Les). Your patriotic fervor works for you, but there are plenty of people frequenting the forum that choose to buy from countries other than the United States, for a variety of reasons, and you would do well to assume that there are those who disagree with your assertions. As I am sure you know, there are risks associated with any type of transaction of this sort, no matter the country. Being one of the unlucky ones who may have funded Les's most recent motorcycle purchase, I hope this whole mess is resolved soon, and to everyone's satisfaction. But, I'm not holding my breath.
How about..if i am a customer who eddie wheat ripped off in the past....so can i say i am not going to send my money again to some donkey in US...LOL
what a stupid comment....congratulations you already make a moron comment for the year:angry:
if you all don't have a good idea how to solve this issue...and you don't have a dog in this fight...please shut your mouth...just keep your thought about "overseas scam" on your mind...Because there are a scam too in US.
I'm not saying everyone overseas is a donkey. I was talking in particular about the seller in this case and from what I've read he has acted quite the donkey here. I'm pretty sure that everyone involved here believes this guy "Les" is an ASS, so why would you make THIS your point of contention.
My point was about the increased risk and the "buyer beware" nature of the transactions. I can prefer to purchase domestically all that I want, if you feel secure ordering overseas and/or would like to support cuemakers abroad rather than at home, that's your prerogative. You don't have to take it personally that others may not agree.
My point was about the increased risk and the "buyer beware" nature of the transactions. I can prefer to purchase domestically all that I want, if you feel secure ordering overseas and/or would like to support cuemakers abroad rather than at home, that's your prerogative. You don't have to take it personally that others may not agree.
Wow....If you are in Indonesia and you sent money to the US for a cue.....do I need to continue?? You sent your money overseas. Yup, to some donkey overseas, you got it.
Did I say don't send your money Indonesia? Or China? or the Phillipines? No. I used the terms "overseas" and "domestic" and for quite the specific reason that the problem isn't with a particular country, it's with the system of accountability when dealing internationally.
Got rip off by american cuemaker also.
It doesnt matter where you buy. I got rip off by an american cuemaker few months ago. He took my money and never heard from him. And he is well known azer and cuemaker.
It doesnt matter where you buy. I got rip off by an american cuemaker few months ago. He took my money and never heard from him. And he is well known azer and cuemaker.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you need to get the facts straight.
1. The "Pink Ivory" cue was listed on Bebot's website as belonging to LES.
2. Mervin contacted me and said that Bebot gave Les the go ahead to to send me the "Pink Ivory" in place of the cue I ordered.
I am one of the lucky ones here on AZ.
Please read your comment carrefully.....your comment was don't send money to donkey in ASIA..not Overseas.
Listen...everywhere there are scam..America..Asia..China..Europe ..almost everywhere.. I completly agree with you if you said..there a lot of scam in Asia. But not to trust Asian is very harsh comment. Indonesia same as Phillipine is maybe a third world. There are a lot of poverty problem, low education problem that push some people do wrong action. But many of us in thrid world country educated enough to not do such action.
yes its true mr murphy.
the story of that cue was les already made a decision sending that cue to you then right after that they only knew that it was already sent to you.
so definitely it will not be advisable for the cue maker to get it back because it is an ethical thing to do.
anyway , my point is simple there are a lot of scammers in the world and we cant tell when they are going to strike. because the way they do it is to build that trust first and if the timing is right they will hit you in the back of your head.
its the same thing when you gamble in billiards, they will not tell you if there going to hassle you. for example you'll play for 200 usd for race to 9. then after two sets he will get back at you by raising the stakes.
its the same thing.no matter where we go there will be people like les " the general " and so on and so forth.
we just have to be smart in dealing with cue makers , as much as possible go direct to the source of the cue.
just my two cents
good evening az members
the story of that cue was les already made a decision sending that cue to you then right after that they only knew that it was already sent to you.
so definitely it will not be advisable for the cue maker to get it back because it is an ethical thing to do.
anyway , my point is simple there are a lot of scammers in the world and we cant tell when they are going to strike. because the way they do it is to build that trust first and if the timing is right they will hit you in the back of your head.
its the same thing when you gamble in billiards, they will not tell you if there going to hassle you. for example you'll play for 200 usd for race to 9. then after two sets he will get back at you by raising the stakes.
its the same thing.no matter where we go there will be people like les " the general " and so on and so forth.
we just have to be smart in dealing with cue makers , as much as possible go direct to the source of the cue.
just my two cents
good evening az members
I don't think the comment was that stupid at all in my opinion.I live in Canada and if I were ripped off in Canada I would be visiting that person if I felt it was worth it just on principle alone but thats just me,I hate getting jolted for anything,but if the person is overseas its real tough to retrieve anything back.Just like that Case thread awhile back,how that guy never got confronted is beyond me.There's enough history on this site about most cuemakers who are timely,honest,fair and affordable.
Curious, what dog do you have in the fight? And why would someone from Ontario post about this particular post? What did it have to do with you?
Buying from an American cue maker (being in the US, puts you closer to the maker and the laws governing this particular country). Not to say there are not scam artists here, of course there is, but you are a lot closer to do something about it....
And I also agree, there are way to many cue makers here in ALL price ranges for me to even think of looking elsewhere...
Sir..did you read Laserbn comment carrefully....or you just jump to the topic without know what is the exactly happen here...
Please read his comment carefully...it's said not send money to some donkey in ASIA...not Europe...not Africa ...South America..and definetly not OVERSEAS.... get it.....
and i don't know what is wrong about overseas transaction...really...it's just the same transaction with local in my opinion..of course there are some additional shipping cost..custom tax but overall..it is just the same...You can get scam in your area too...
The other reason is :::
okay, Let's pretend that i'm an Indonesian and the are no cuemaker here in Indonesia...am i wrong to order Sugartree cue from Eric crisp.. just because US is overseas...
The dog I have in this fight is in regard to the money that I sent to Les Lacson for a cue made by the Bebots. I have received neither a refund, nor a cue. I'm not sure what my province of residence has to do with anything, but I'll reciprocate: why would someone from Virginia respond to my post? Does Lacson owe you money, too?
I assumed that Bavafongoul, being happy to support US-based cuemakers, was not on the list of 'owed cue or refund' folks that largely comprise the contributors to this thread. No one, who has handed over money and not received their due goods, wants to hear "Oh, you were ripped off by {insert foreign nation of choice}? That's why I only support {insert country of choice} cuemakers!" It does nothing to further discourse or rectify the problem.
I hope I've been clear.
lalackyums
Registered
update...
I would like to offer a glimmer of hope to all of those out there like me who purchased bebot cues from "the general" and who are still fighting for their cues or refunds. After more than 6 months of lies, excuses, broken promises, begging, pleading, and angry emails, I finally received a cue from "the general" this week. It is not the custom cue which I ordered, however at least it is something.
Here is a comparison between some of the specifications I requested and paid for, and what I actually received:
Ordered: tiger maple wrapless handle
Received: ashwood handle
Ordered: 0.9" ferrule
Received: standard ferrule
Ordered: 1x1 hard case
Received: soft case
Those are just a few examples. There are other differences as well between what was requested and what was actually delivered. In addition, there are some problems with the cue. The splicing for example does not appear to have been done correctly, as the cue is not smooth to the touch when you run your hand across it.
I don't think the cue is worth what was paid for it, but at this point, with everything that occurred, and considering that so many others have yet to receive anything, I am happy to have something and I am just relieved that this NIGHTMARE of an experience is finished. I am grateful that "the general" did finally take some responsibility, and did not completely disappear from the situation.
Over the many months of dealing with him, I heard every excuse in the book from "the general," including gems like: he could not issue me a refund because the money I sent for the cue had already been used to pay for his daughters' schooling.
I think the way all of us have been treated by both parties is unacceptable. For the most part, we have been bombarded by excuses and stories of victimization. I realize that there are several sides to the story, and I also realize that there are scams and shady characters in every country of the world, however, this experience has completely turned me off to making any more international purchases.
I just hope that "the general" and bebot do the right thing and I hope somehow that everyone who is STILL waiting will be compensated. I also wish the best to all the other AZ-ers who were victims too and hope this is a sign that you will be receiving something too.
I would like to offer a glimmer of hope to all of those out there like me who purchased bebot cues from "the general" and who are still fighting for their cues or refunds. After more than 6 months of lies, excuses, broken promises, begging, pleading, and angry emails, I finally received a cue from "the general" this week. It is not the custom cue which I ordered, however at least it is something.
Here is a comparison between some of the specifications I requested and paid for, and what I actually received:
Ordered: tiger maple wrapless handle
Received: ashwood handle
Ordered: 0.9" ferrule
Received: standard ferrule
Ordered: 1x1 hard case
Received: soft case
Those are just a few examples. There are other differences as well between what was requested and what was actually delivered. In addition, there are some problems with the cue. The splicing for example does not appear to have been done correctly, as the cue is not smooth to the touch when you run your hand across it.
I don't think the cue is worth what was paid for it, but at this point, with everything that occurred, and considering that so many others have yet to receive anything, I am happy to have something and I am just relieved that this NIGHTMARE of an experience is finished. I am grateful that "the general" did finally take some responsibility, and did not completely disappear from the situation.
Over the many months of dealing with him, I heard every excuse in the book from "the general," including gems like: he could not issue me a refund because the money I sent for the cue had already been used to pay for his daughters' schooling.
I think the way all of us have been treated by both parties is unacceptable. For the most part, we have been bombarded by excuses and stories of victimization. I realize that there are several sides to the story, and I also realize that there are scams and shady characters in every country of the world, however, this experience has completely turned me off to making any more international purchases.
I just hope that "the general" and bebot do the right thing and I hope somehow that everyone who is STILL waiting will be compensated. I also wish the best to all the other AZ-ers who were victims too and hope this is a sign that you will be receiving something too.