Bye, Bye, Ms. American Pool Pie!

[JimS]

My grandsons recently talked their folks and me into getting them a table. I was a little reluctant because I'm afraid they'll love the game and there is no future in loving pool. That's just the unpleasant reality. It leads nowhere and I'd prefer they put their time/effor/money... their LIFE into something that will have a better chance of providing them a full and happy life. Pool just aint likely to do that.

My attitude probably explains why kids aren't growing up wanting to be pool pros. There ain't no future in it. Now if we're talkin golf......

(but I sure love teaching them what I've learned about the game and spending quality recreational time with them.)

Doesn't that pretty much tell us about the mind set of most of the general public here in the US?

 

[1pocket]

Well, Hittman can blame the American players if he wants, but I blame the American industry, and their central organization, the BCA. I mean get real, they ARE organized -- their snub is an organized intentional snub! Name one other sport that snubs its top practitioners like pool! Of course there are exceptions, like Diamond. And notable personal player endorsements, but where oh where is the organized industry support of a top level tour, that could actually provide a decent living for players that wanted to take the high road???

Hitmann, and other "player blamers", here's another question for you... Pool is huge in the Philipines -- all agreed. By extension of your logic, you must also be saying that pool is thriving there because the Philipine player culture got their act together first to eliminate the "dumps a match, steals the money, hustles a newbie, etc"? Oh, really!

Of course I have never been to the Philipines, and I am in no way knocking them as a group or any individual players -- I have the utmost respect for them. Of course, I respect top money players for their ability to perform well under those conditions, and I enjoy the entertainment value their action brings to the game -- maybe you don't. Yet from all I have heard, the gambling culture is huge there, and I have also heard of one very promising player having died because of money-match related violence.

IMO the action side of pool is a huge part of its popularity -- not just here, but certainly also in the Philipines. Its just too bad the American Industry doesn't see it that way, although they are perfectly happy to sell all of the tables, equipment, cues, etc., etc knowing full well that is partly how the equipment is going to be used

Look at Poker -- what, did they first have to eliminate all of the cheating, sandbagging, dumping and 'business' from poker in order for it to be "clean" enough to become successful?

 

[Gerry]

No, I don't think thats the general consensus of the public. Most of them don't know anything about the game let alone if there are Pro's and how much they make!?

Why not introduce them to the game and let them decide on their own if they love it or not. Maybe you are taking the cue out of the next "Efrens" hands, or someone who could revolutionize/influence the game in some way.

I had a similar conversation with a friend who is trying to get his kid "away" from going into the trades. He wants him to be a "professional" whatever, the kid wants to work with his hands like I do, so he asked me about it....I'm a plumbing contractor.

Obviously very few of us make a living at the games we love whatever they are, but to steer kids away from because you don't think its best, is doing more harm than good IMO, not to mention teaching them nothing about life. I know you just want whats best, but re-read your post from another point of view maybe....its skewed.

Gerry

 

[JAM]

Well, Hittman can blame the American players if he wants, but I blame the American industry, and their central organization, the BCA. I mean get real, they ARE organized -- their snub is an organized intentional snub! Name one other sport that snubs its top practitioners like pool!....

You are right on the money [pun intended]!

Billiard Congress of America? Congress of what?

Here's the word meaning of "congress":

1. A formal assembly of representatives, as of various nations, to discuss problems.

2. The national legislative body of a nation, especially a republic.

3. The national legislative body of the United States, consisting of the Senate and the House of Representatives.

4. The act of coming together or meeting.

5. Sexual intercourse.

When it comes to the BCA, I choose No. 5 because the American pro players are getting screwed by this Billiard Congress of America.

JAM

 

[pooltchr]

The BCA has not done very much in recent times to promote professional pool. The $15,000 first-place prize once a year at the "invitational" BCA Open doesn't seem to me like a good payout. Heck, it has only recently been $15,000 in the past few years. It was only 3 or 4 years ago that the first-place prize paid out $10,000. The industry-member organization of the BCA is more interested in benefiting its members, and I think that is why they target league players, social shooters, bar bangers, and the like. I think the BCA could care less about pro players, whether they exist here in the States or not.



JAM

JAM, you know I respect your opinions, and appreciate the insight you offer the rest of us from your unique position in our sport. I would ask you to please remember that the BCA and the BCAPL are two completely different organizations. The BCA has separated itself from league play and the championship events held in Vegas each year. They are a trade organization, and as such, represent their members (industry businesses). They oversee the instructor program, the referee program, the BEF (Billiard Education Foundation) program for young players, etc.
That being said, I would like to see the BCA encourage their members to band together and support a legitimate pro tour. I don't think any one (or two) members can support one on their own, but as a group, I can see some potential for creating a pro tour.
I know old habits are hard to break, but for the sake of clear communication, if you would specify whether you are speaking of the BCA or the BCAPL, it would help others get a clearer understanding of which organization you are speaking about.
I'm in no way trying to come down on you, just asking a small favor.
Keep up the good work. I always enjoy your posts.
Thanks
Steve

 

[JAM]

JAM, you know I respect your opinions, and appreciate the insight you offer the rest of us from your unique position in our sport. I would ask you to please remember that the BCA and the BCAPL are two completely different organizations. The BCA has separated itself from league play and the championship events held in Vegas each year. They are a trade organization, and as such, represent their members (industry businesses). They oversee the instructor program, the referee program, the BEF (Billiard Education Foundation) program for young players, etc.
That being said, I would like to see the BCA encourage their members to band together and support a legitimate pro tour. I don't think any one (or two) members can support one on their own, but as a group, I can see some potential for creating a pro tour.
I know old habits are hard to break, but for the sake of clear communication, if you would specify whether you are speaking of the BCA or the BCAPL, it would help others get a clearer understanding of which organization you are speaking about.
I'm in no way trying to come down on you, just asking a small favor.
Keep up the good work. I always enjoy your posts.
Thanks
Steve

Steve, this is funny. I know about as much about the BCAPL as the American pool culture knows about American pro players!

I assume you are meaning the BCA pool league!

And you are correct that I need to make a distinction because it is an important one. I am not referring to a pool league.

I am referring to the same BCA who gave a newly formed men's organization with absolutely no track record the right to be the men's governing body of professional pool. Where is that men's organization today?

JAM

 

[cheesemouse]

JAM, you know I respect your opinions, and appreciate the insight you offer the rest of us from your unique position in our sport. I would ask you to please remember that the BCA and the BCAPL are two completely different organizations. The BCA has separated itself from league play and the championship events held in Vegas each year. They are a trade organization, and as such, represent their members (industry businesses). They oversee the instructor program, the referee program, the BEF (Billiard Education Foundation) program for young players, etc.
That being said, I would like to see the BCA encourage their members to band together and support a legitimate pro tour. I don't think any one (or two) members can support one on their own, but as a group, I can see some potential for creating a pro tour.
I know old habits are hard to break, but for the sake of clear communication, if you would specify whether you are speaking of the BCA or the BCAPL, it would help others get a clearer understanding of which organization you are speaking about.
I'm in no way trying to come down on you, just asking a small favor.
Keep up the good work. I always enjoy your posts.
Thanks
Steve

A thought that always floats around in the back of my mind when I think of the pool problem is: "where is the industry?" Hell, even the pig producers of American have an association that promotes the other white meat. Nearly every hog grower in the country pays a buck per hundred weight when they sell the pigs. The money goes to promote pork. The theory is that everyone will benefit in the long run. There is not an agency of a like kind in the pool industry. It is everyone for themselves and there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow; there is no rainbow. BCA....my a$$. What have they done? What is their mission statement? In my mind the BCA is an ivory tower organization that provides a good job to 10>15 people who can't run three balls....what is that?
Why was the pool world taken in by the hoopla of the IPT? Was it because nobody else was promoting the game and the door was wide open for a dream maker to walk right in with promises? We can beat this dog to death and it comes down to the same thing...the door is still open to someone to take advantage of the sleeping dog of pool. There is no 'good housekeeping seal of pool' that pool enthusiasts can look too to get the facts. If I wanted to support pool at the professional level with a hundred dollar donation I would have to track down a self professed pro and play him/her even to make sure they could play, then I would be somewhat sure my money was going towards the support of a pro pool player.
Would I be bothered if the leagues I play in gave a dollar or two towards of my fee's to an organization that promoted professional pool? No, I would like that. Would I support a table manufacturer, a cue maker, a stool maker, a chalk maker, a cloth maker, a case maker, a tip maker, a shirtmaker, a pool hall, a beer brewer, a car maker, or any other maker that supported the sport of professional pool? Well, yes I would....just show me the 'seal'.....
Sorry for the disjointed rant. I don't have the answers, I just have a disappointment in my heart of pool.......rant over......LOL....

 

[Bugz]

My grandsons recently talked their folks and me into getting them a table. I was a little reluctant because I'm afraid they'll love the game and there is no future in loving pool. That's just the unpleasant reality. It leads nowhere and I'd prefer they put their time/effor/money... their LIFE into something that will have a better chance of providing them a full and happy life. Pool just aint likely to do that.

My attitude probably explains why kids aren't growing up wanting to be pool pros. There ain't no future in it. Now if we're talkin golf......

(but I sure love teaching them what I've learned about the game and spending quality recreational time with them.)

Doesn't that pretty much tell us about the mind set of most of the general public here in the US?

My grandfather taught me how to play pool when i was 6/7 and i stood on a milk crate. Growing up, pool taught me alot about sportsmanship and thinking through a situation.

More importantly, pool kept my ass in the basement while i was growing up. I rewarded my grandfather last year, with my Top Gun trophy and Challenge of Champions Plaque. They were placed by the head of his coffin. I went to college and became an engineer. Shielding them, will only have you find them in pool halls.

 

[MrLucky]

First of all I think this is one of the best post over all to date that I have read here!....
in reading the thoughts expressed I agree that
1) Pool is not marketed in America properly , we are a media driven country if its on TV then its rea, legit and embraced!
2) As pointed out here in America there is so much to choose from and so many with the free time and ability to chose ! so when refering to the philipines and other countries, thoseof you that have been there will probably agree that economics and culture limit the choices these folks have so they tend to band together in support of the local pastimes! which are decidedly fewer than we have here!
3) and yes the APA / BCA / whoever else inability to work together for a common cause in promoting pool also to a point has hurt its profliferation here each with there own rules of play and conflicting formats hurts the game in its whole. the APA has done the most in the way of marketing its programs and the results show in its yearly membership roll count!

 

[MrLucky]

I agree totally

My grandfather taught me how to play pool when i was 6/7 and i stood on a milk crate. Growing up, pool taught me alot about sportsmanship and thinking through a situation.

More importantly, pool kept my ass in the basement while i was growing up. I rewarded my grandfather last year, with my Top Gun trophy and Challenge of Champions Plaque. They were placed by the head of his coffin. I went to college and became an engineer. Shielding them, will only have you find them in pool halls.

I was started by my late uncle when i was 9 ! I learned not only sportsmanship and competition but I firmly believe pool helped me immeasurably in learning and understanding geometry and physics which led to a Civil Engineering degree and even more so in how to think and use strategy which is so important in every day life!

 

[1pocket]

JAM, you know I respect your opinions, and appreciate the insight you offer the rest of us from your unique position in our sport. I would ask you to please remember that the BCA and the BCAPL are two completely different organizations. The BCA has separated itself from league play and the championship events held in Vegas each year. They are a trade organization, and as such, represent their members (industry businesses). They oversee the instructor program, the referee program, the BEF (Billiard Education Foundation) program for young players, etc.
That being said, I would like to see the BCA encourage their members to band together and support a legitimate pro tour. I don't think any one (or two) members can support one on their own, but as a group, I can see some potential for creating a pro tour.
I know old habits are hard to break, but for the sake of clear communication, if you would specify whether you are speaking of the BCA or the BCAPL, it would help others get a clearer understanding of which organization you are speaking about.
I'm in no way trying to come down on you, just asking a small favor.
Keep up the good work. I always enjoy your posts.
Thanks
Steve

??? JAM did make it clear -- she even spelled it out, "Billiard Congress of America".

Maybe I didn't in my post, but I did specifically refer to the industry organanization -- that should be pretty clear...

 

[IA8baller]

My grandsons recently talked their folks and me into getting them a table. I was a little reluctant because I'm afraid they'll love the game and there is no future in loving pool. That's just the unpleasant reality. It leads nowhere and I'd prefer they put their time/effor/money... their LIFE into something that will have a better chance of providing them a full and happy life. Pool just aint likely to do that.

My attitude probably explains why kids aren't growing up wanting to be pool pros. There ain't no future in it. Now if we're talkin golf......

(but I sure love teaching them what I've learned about the game and spending quality recreational time with them.)

Doesn't that pretty much tell us about the mind set of most of the general public here in the US?

I'd say you hit the nail squarely on the head with that post.

I have 3 sons, ages 15, 12, and 2 and my oldest is showing a desire for learning, and I mean LEARNING the game of pool and even though I know in all likeliehood that there is no real future in it for him, I have decided that his youthful passion and desire for the game is enough for me to spend the time and money to teach him this wonderful game to the best of my ability which includes me turning our garage into our "pool room" and I'm anxiously looking forward to many, many hours of play/practice with my sons over the next several years. To spend countless hours of quality time with my sons playing and teaching them a game I love so much can't be a waste of time and my long term goal is to become an instructor and teach this game to many youngsters over the next few decades.

That is my personal goal to promote this game, what is your's?

While my oldest is showing some very definite signs of potential/greatness in the game of golf and his probability of making an honest living with golf vs. pool is much, much more likely, in the back of my mind I'd like to see him become a great player in pool also even though in all probability there is no real future in it.

Trevor

 

[NittiFan]

I believe billiard industry leaders, Diamond, Olhausen, Brunswick, etc.. should join up with the Billiard Education Foundation and structure a program to put tables and equipment in high schools across the nation and tweak the interest of kids in school. This will perpetuate the sport and will foster some of the traits you've proffered in this post.

Get local talent to instruct the kids a few days a week and start filling the pews, so to speak.

Carnegie did it with libraries!?

JMO, Mike

 

[crosseyedjoe]

WOW, BCAPL is another acronym organization. Billiard Education Foundation is another group. Then I can really say, America is in the hole because the pool scene here is very splintered. You won't get anywhere if everybody wants to do his own thing.

 

[pooltchr]

Cheesemouse, I agree. The BCA does a fair job with the things that they do, but I think they could do much more. They manage to bring all the members together for their big trade show every year, but all that is designed for is to promote product sales to retailers. In my opinion, they are in the best position of anyone to actually do something to promote professional pool. After all, a successful professional tour would go a long way toward building sales for all the industry members. Right now, it seems their focus is in promoting their members to the other members.

I also agree with the other poster who suggested that the BEF work with the BCA members to promote pool in schools. I, for one, would be more than happy to get involved in teaching pool in the schools. I have contacted the BEF to get some ideas how to start such a program in my area. Still waiting to hear back from them. (??????)

Amateur leagues are doing well in this country. Regional tours seem to do pretty well, but that may simply be due to the fact that they offer the only opportunity for many of the better players to compete. But nobody is going to make a living playing on them. Why can't someone figure out a way to make professional pool a viable career choice? I don't have the answers, but it seems there should be a way to make it happen.
Steve

 

[JAM]

Cheesemouse, I agree. The BCA does a fair job with the things that they do, but I think they could do much more. They manage to bring all the members together for their big trade show every year, but all that is designed for is to promote product sales to retailers. In my opinion, they are in the best position of anyone to actually do something to promote professional pool. After all, a successful professional tour would go a long way toward building sales for all the industry members. Right now, it seems their focus is in promoting their members to the other members.

When I contacted the BCA several years ago about the BCA Open, I did get a reply from a BCA employee who told me they do not have anything to do with player selection for the BCA Open, their once-a-year pro tournament.

The BCA employee stated that the vendor who runs the tournament is who handles the selection of the participants for the BCA Open, i.e., "the waiting list."

I see the BCA Open has an office building with employees, but it serves its members and not pool players, IMHO. Maybe they should change their name to the "Billiard Industry of America."

I also agree with the other poster who suggested that the BEF work with the BCA members to promote pool in schools. I, for one, would be more than happy to get involved in teaching pool in the schools. I have contacted the BEF to get some ideas how to start such a program in my area. Still waiting to hear back from them. (??????)

Why does that not surprise me?!

Amateur leagues are doing well in this country. Regional tours seem to do pretty well, but that may simply be due to the fact that they offer the only opportunity for many of the better players to compete. But nobody is going to make a living playing on them. Why can't someone figure out a way to make professional pool a viable career choice? I don't have the answers, but it seems there should be a way to make it happen.

The answer that some American aspiring pros and pro players have come to is to abandon the "sport" altogether. This is a growing trend in America, which is the reason I initiated this thread.

JAM

 

[DawgAndy]

Some observations. Where I play, the leagues have killed the tournaments. Some guys have play in 2 or 3 leagues a week and don't come out for tournies. The league players don't follow pool. I listened while 2 guys tryed to figure out whose name was on a cuetech in the counter. Why am I down on leagues? I'm not really, there's just isn't any connecion between the ameture sector and the pro. No tour card (no tour) no qualifying for a pro tournament, nothing to strive for except a trip to Vegas at the end of the year. Regional tours are great but when the TD moves south and takes his tour with him...Plus without a pro tour the pros gobble up the top 3 places at many of these weekend deals. I heard recently that there aren't any pool halls in Cleveland anymore. Pool may need another TCOM but it needs an audience first. I went to Pittsburgh last year or the year before to watch a tournament and the was hardly any one there at all.

sorry, I don't have any answers for the pros. Is the only reason they don't model a tour after the WPBA is lack of sponsorship?

Andy

 

[Big Bad Bern]

JAM, I greatly respect your opinions and those of Keith. Keith is a great player and an insperation to many pool players my self included, I own a couple of accustat video's of his playing and i have learned alot from watching these.

I am a lowly amateur player with aspiration of playing at a pro level someday, my question would be what are keith and you doing to attract people to your cause. With the wealth of knowledge that Keith has he could do what my local BCA instructor does, he arranges to do trickshot demonstrations at local high schools for free to attract students [$$$]( I think Keith would make a great instructor), Keith could also promote challenge matches [$$$] between himself and other top players (Basavich, Mc Creesh, and others)while at these high schools, charging $5 or $10 addmissions at the door of the poolhalls.

In doing this he would be doing a great service to himself and to the future of pool by attracting more young people to the sport and passing on knowledge to help them play better and more enjoy the sport whether they are playing or watching it.

If parents will pay for their children to play sports, take music, dance,chess or other such lessons I am sure they could be persuaded to pay for pool lessons also.

It would be similar to martial arts training where you train under a master(school) and compete against other masters (schools) in competition.

I just get chills at the thought of Keiths school taking on Buddy Halls school or maybe Earl Stricklands school.

Just some thoughts

Bern

 

[JAM]

JAM, I greatly respect your opinions and those of Keith. Keith is a great player and an insperation to many pool players my self included, I own a couple of accustat video's of his playing and i have learned alot from watching these.

I am a lowly amateur player with aspiration of playing at a pro level someday, my question would be what are keith and you doing to attract people to your cause. With the wealth of knowledge that Keith has he could do what my local BCA instructor does, he arranges to do trickshot demonstrations at local high schools for free to attract students [$$$]( I think Keith would make a great instructor), Keith could also promote challenge matches [$$$] between himself and other top players (Basavich, Mc Creesh, and others)while at these high schools, charging $5 or $10 addmissions at the door of the poolhalls.

In doing this he would be doing a great service to himself and to the future of pool by attracting more young people to the sport and passing on knowledge to help them play better and more enjoy the sport whether they are playing or watching it.

If parents will pay for their children to play sports, take music, dance,chess or other such lessons I am sure they could be persuaded to pay for pool lessons also.

It would be similar to martial arts training where you train under a master(school) and compete against other masters (schools) in competition.

I just get chills at the thought of Keiths school taking on Buddy Halls school or maybe Earl Stricklands school.

Just some thoughts

I appreciate your thoughts and kind words about Keith.

I wish it was as easy as one person trying to make a difference as far as advancing pool in America, but it is a very complex situation, one which is filled with politics and greed and, quite frankly, a lack of interest.

In times gone by, Keith (and I) went through great efforts to promote pool in a positive light. We have mailed out numerous autographed color photographs to friends, fans, and pool enthusiasts at our own expense, never charging one penny.

Keith has gone to several charity events in our region, which is always fun for me.

Whenever we are present at tournaments, you will see Keith hanging out after his matches, mingling with the crowd. However, the majority of pros who attend the same events will immediately exit the premises when their matches conclude.

In particular, Keith has a fondness for children who show an interest in shooting pool. You will see him spending his time with any child who does show an interest, helping them hold their cue stick, showing them how to stroke, giving them praise when they make a shot.

At a recent trip to West Virginia, there were a group of children in the pool room hanging out. Keith set up some shots for them and said he'd pay each one of them one dollar if they could pocket the ball. By the time we left, we gave away about 25 bucks. You should have seen the excitement that getting one dollar generated. They were all trying their hardest to pocket balls. Of course, Keith helped the smaller children stroke a couple of them in and still gave them a buck for their efforts!

Every Christmas, we go to a nursing home in our area and hang out with the residents. This is one of the highlights of the year for me personally because I see how much joy it generates during the holiday season.

In my own small way, I have tried to promote pool in a positive light by sharing photographs of events I attend and posting up trip reports. Though some do seem to enjoy them and have complimented me for doing so, I have also experienced a great deal of sadness and heart ache from the words that have been written about me by people who do not even know me.

Today, I have retreated a bit. I am trying to sit back and enjoy the show more. I have been beaten up by pool, and I will be the first one to admit that it hurts.

JAM

 

[whitewolf]

I think what American pool needs is for someone to hit the $200,000,000 lottery.....someone who loves pool.

And, like I have always said, if billiards could be put in the same format as horse racing, where gigantic bets can take place on the outcome of pool events.

If and when pool ever does get on TV, then the old NCAA tree would get offices stirred up like nothing you have ever seen. Even poker couldn't duplicate this. NOTHING could! Okay, the Super Bowl goes on for one day, but if America could make bets and watch the matches on TV, then the office pools and interest would raise pool to another level.