C J Wylie controversy and TOI

[CJ Wiley]

Make sure to hit these shots an the "firmer" side

thanks CJ. I understand the TOI just get a little confused on balls on or near the rail with the cue ball up table. Say put the whitey on the middle spot used for breaking. Put the OB down table on or near rail on the right hand side. For this type of shot am I looking to hit the TOI on the right side or left side of the cue ball? Anyone?

Left side cutting to the left.....with cue ball on foot spot and OB on the right side of the table, you'd be cutting it to the left....you can aim to hit it slightly thicker than usual and the TOI will over cut it slightly and make the pocket "zone" bigger.

Make sure to hit these shots an the "firmer" side....pool is best played with an accelerating stroke, the TOI insures this, it's "built in".

 

[CJ Wiley]

the NO SPIN effect of TOI is best for running balls playing straight pool&one pocket

CJ, do you use TOI for one pocket, banks, straight pool? I really can't see myself using a TOI for playing one pocket.

TOI is VERY effective for one pocket(the cue ball NEVER gets away from you like with spin)....get the hang of it first playing rotation games, then you will see quickly how it applies to one pocket.

The "kill shot" ability will come up SO many times where you can get behind the balls and the NO SPIN effect of TOI is best for running balls playing straight pool or one pocket.

I gave Amarillo Slim 15/5 playing one pocket in Baton Rouge and beat him out of 30k playing one pocket using this system of play. If anyone was there I'm sure they'll agree, I ran 15 and out more times then anyone they've ever seen. This was the same spot he was taking from Efren, who runs balls in the same manner.

Remember, it was Efren that told me his secret was "NO SPIN," and the only way to get this effect is with a touch of inside to offset the spin created by the shot angle...center WILL NOT do it, it must be done with a "hair" of counter (TOI) spin. Just, let me remind you, DO NOT try to spin the TOI shot, hit it straight through the cue ball with no angle.

The first (and only) straight pool tournament I played in using TOI was the MAINE EVENT...I beat Efren in the winners and he came back and beat me in the finals. I ran over 90 balls two times in a row the day before the finals.

They ask me what I thought the toughest part of straight pool was and I said "staying awake!" I'm kidding, of course, straight pool is a beautiful Game using the TOI Technique. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[frankw]

Funny that you mentioned the sound CJ. I noticed that today, when I hit it right, there was a distinct sound made.

It's pretty amazing to see the long shots go straight in and I no longer fear really thin cut shots.

I was playing on a tighter table today and I rattled quite a few shots that didn't drop, but I don't think I was using the 3 pocket system properly.

All in all this has been really fun and improvement is coming quickly.

If I could make a request, I would love to see some more 9 ball, or 8 or 10 for that matter, runouts with commentary. Max Eberle does that on his site and I love to hear the thought processes and see how things are played.

 

[CJ Wiley]

play a completely different Game

Funny that you mentioned the sound CJ. I noticed that today, when I hit it right, there was a distinct sound made.

It's pretty amazing to see the long shots go straight in and I no longer fear really thin cut shots.

I was playing on a tighter table today and I rattled quite a few shots that didn't drop, but I don't think I was using the 3 pocket system properly.

All in all this has been really fun and improvement is coming quickly.

If I could make a request, I would love to see some more 9 ball, or 8 or 10 for that matter, runouts with commentary. Max Eberle does that on his site and I love to hear the thought processes and see how things are played.

Yes, there's several things about using the TOI that I didn't want to bring up until more players were experiencing it. It just sounds far out to say that a particular style of play would sound different, however, when you use the "Touch" of Inside Technique the shots sound "fuller". This is because when you use this style you can hit the object balls fuller and the TOI makes them cut more.

Soon I will start to talk in more advanced terms about the TOI experience. 'The TOI Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley

 

[One Pocket John]

The hardest adjustment for me has been only using 2 points on the OB (center and edge) and using the TOI to create the angle. (been playing off and on for over 50 years and have always used the "back of the ball aiming system)

This is going some time to get use to. I have watched your TOI PPV at least 4 times to help jog my memory.

I will say, from my brief experience with TOI, to me it seems a lot more simple to use than the way I have been shooting.

What I have noticed when using TOI is the tip adjustment on the cue ball kinda jumps out at you when your "on".

I have a table at home and I am retired, so plenty of time to practice. I'll post my advances using TOI the first part of March.

Thanks for all that you share CJ

John

 

[Fatboy]

I gave Amarillo Slim 15/5 playing one pocket in Baton Rouge and beat him out of 30k playing one pocket using this system of play. If anyone was there I'm sure they'll agree, I ran 15 and out more times then anyone they've ever seen. This was the same spot he was taking from Efren, who runs balls in the same manner.

Slim could play too, he was not a joke.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Once the become familiar with deflecting the cue ball intentionally this goes away

The hardest adjustment for me has been only using 2 points on the OB (center and edge) and using the TOI to create the angle. (been playing off and on for over 50 years and have always used the "back of the ball aiming system)

This is going some time to get use to. I have watched your TOI PPV at least 4 times to help jog my memory.

I will say, from my brief experience with TOI, to me it seems a lot more simple to use than the way I have been shooting.

What I have noticed when using TOI is the tip adjustment on the cue ball kinda jumps out at you when your "on".

I have a table at home and I am retired, so plenty of time to practice. I'll post my advances using TOI the first part of March.

Thanks for all that you share CJ

John

I'm going to give you some "inside information" to help your "tip target". When you cue the TOI to create the angle, think in terms of the "3Part Pocket System," and there's 3 "right" spots on the cue ball you can hit.

These spots on the cue ball are obviously very close together, however, this is really your direct margin of error. Since the cue ball is your target, not the object ball, the margin of error is on the cue ball. You may even want to set up a shot and experiment hitting it into the 3 parts of the pocket so you can FEEL the different spots that connect on the cue ball.

I like to feel like like I"m connecting to the angles and creating them. This is pretty advanced, however, I think, John, you are to the point of your TOI training that this will make sense.

The point I'm making is, when you use the TOI method of creating angles it's much easier than might think at first because you have about a sixteenth of an inch "margin of error" ON the cue ball that translates to the 3 parts of the pocket. As you know these are aligned to the center or edge of the object ball.

Anyone that's using the TOI will now understand why trying to hit the center of the cue ball is such a small target. If you're just slightly off either way you are going to create an angle (unintentionally) that translates to about a quarter diamond on a full table shot. Now does if make sense why you used to miss shots for no apparent reason and wonder why?

The top level players that I've worked with value this more than anything, even the best ones will miss shots and not know for sure if they accidently deflected the cue ball. Once the become familiar with deflecting the cue ball intentionally this uncertainty goes away.

Then, when they miss a shot they can quickly make the necessary adjustment and play perfect the rest of the match. This can only be done consistently if you know for sure what went wrong. This is also why it's such a huge advantage that the TOI method blends the shot speed, shot angle and cue ball target into one.

Think how many more calculations you have to make if you do all three of these thing separately.....and most players do. That's why this game is so difficult for short stop players. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[MOJOE]

CJ, this method of playing is eye opening.

As I've written in the couple of emails that I've shared with you, it's actually rekindled my love for the game.

I'm only 5 days into using TOI and my game is easily quite a bit better already. I'm not using TOI on every shot but I'm using it on at least 75% of my shots with great success.

I'm to the point where I'm using Center, Edge and 1/4 of the object ball now and it's making the game even simpler. I'm really enjoying the journey.

Peace and thanks for sharing the TOI concept!

 

[BillPorter]

Maybe this is what Dick Lane was talking about

CJ, I am sure you know Dick Lane. For those who don't, Dick was a VERY strong player, literally world championship level at straight pool and pro level at all pool games. I've known Dick for many years, although I haven't seen him since he dropped out of the pool world about 5 years ago.

Years ago I was talking with Dick and our mutual friend Mike Haines when Dick went on a rant about a "secret" that he was sure many top level players were using when addressing a shot on the pool table. Now Dick didn't claim to know this "secret," and in fact he seemed to feel that it was being kept from him for some reason. When I asked him to explain, as I recall he said he thought it had something to do with the manner in which they were addressing the cue ball. Dick was a really smart dude and a high level player, so I didn't dismiss his comments as just idle chatter.

I haven't bought your DVD or PPV, but reading some of your posts here on AZ about the TOI technique has led me to think about that many years ago conversation with Dick Lane.

So what do you think, CJ? Do you think the TOI technique might have been what Dick was thinking of as a "secret" aiming technique of some of the top players that Dick was competing against?

 

[Okie]

I watched the ppv yesterday and I have a question. CJ, are you using a high deflection shaft? I use a low deflection shaft and for me to get the needed deflection I have to hit really hard.

I have experienced the exact same thing. I have experimented with aim, shaft, cue tip contact point, and speed but I don't get anywhere near the deflection shown on the video when shooting from the head spot down the center of the table.

Ken

 

[MOJOE]

I have experienced the exact same thing. I have experimented with aim, shaft, cue tip contact point, and speed but I don't get anywhere near the deflection shown on the video when shooting from the head spot down the center of the table.

Ken

I think CJ talked about this in the video.. He said something about you are going to have to calibrate this to fit yourself. Every cue, how hard you hit it etc. is going to make the results vary per player.

It has caused me to be very deliberate and consistent on where I am striking the cue ball as well as ultra aware of my shot speed. This alone has helped me immensely.

 

[CJ Wiley]

somethings are better experienced, and enjoyed than understood.

CJ, I am sure you know Dick Lane. For those who don't, Dick was a VERY strong player, literally world championship level at straight pool and pro level at all pool games. I've known Dick for many years, although I haven't seen him since he dropped out of the pool world about 5 years ago.

Years ago I was talking with Dick and our mutual friend Mike Haines when Dick went on a rant about a "secret" that he was sure many top level players were using when addressing a shot on the pool table. Now Dick didn't claim to know this "secret," and in fact he seemed to feel that it was being kept from him for some reason. When I asked him to explain, as I recall he said he thought it had something to do with the manner in which they were addressing the cue ball. Dick was a really smart dude and a high level player, so I didn't dismiss his comments as just idle chatter.

I haven't bought your DVD or PPV, but reading some of your posts here on AZ about the TOI technique has led me to think about that many years ago conversation with Dick Lane.

So what do you think, CJ? Do you think the TOI technique might have been what Dick was thinking of as a "secret" aiming technique of some of the top players that Dick was competing against?

I know many players suspected I was doing something while addressing the cue ball {with my tip} that I wasn't sharing, Strong Arm John noticed it when I was playing Jimmy Wetch those big money matches, but he never ask specifically what I was doing.

We did mention the "Inside Knowledge" in passing, just few knew how profound the "TOI" really was.

I did share it with a few players and until they come forward I'll keep their identity to myself. It's amazing that something that seems so simple took me 90 minutes on video and thousands of posts on AZ to just communicate the basic structure of the system. That's why I tell everyone they must experience it on their own, somethings are better experienced, and enjoyed than understood.

I used to practice with Dick Lane for a short period of time at my pool hall in Dallas. I had the TOI technique "dialed in" to perfection on those tables and was VERY difficult to play against there. He decided that we couldn't play 9 Ball or 10 Ball, so we played 15 Ball rotation like it was 9 Ball, you had to make the 15 to win.

We played races to 11 and I don't think he got past 3, at least not on the second day of play. I was running racks playing rotation, and it's because with the TOI it opens up a new dimension, not so much in shot-making, but in position play. There's something about the NO SPIN game that makes all the angles align perfectly.

Spin spoils this effect somehow and the game just doesn't "open up" like it does using the "Touch" of INside.....I can beat the ghost playing rotation if I can take one ball off the table on the first shot....there is NO WAY I can do that if I don't use the TOI Technique. I'm getting a lot of request to do this on video and narrate it while I play....I think, because of the high demand of this request I'm going to demonstrate this as my next video project.

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Think of it as "expressing or creating" the angles....this is much more effective

I have experienced the exact same thing. I have experimented with aim, shaft, cue tip contact point, and speed but I don't get anywhere near the deflection shown on the video when shooting from the head spot down the center of the table.

Ken

You are relying on the deflection while not allowing your perception to change on the shot. As you move to the TOI Target your visual perception will also create more of an angle. Cue speed in important and must be consistent, without seeing you hit balls I cant advise you, just make sure you're hitting the cue ball with an accelerating stroke that's accurate and is precisely hitting the TOI cue ball target. The Cue Ball is the Target, not the object ball, it's the "secondary target".

When I see a player doing this it's usually because they're trying to "force it" somehow. Just relax and let it happen, pool's about touch and feel and if you get to "uptight" you will reduce this from naturally happening.

This isn't a "mechanical" method, think of your shot-making as expressing yourself by creating and then connecting to the shot angles....this is much more effective in getting in the right "zone" to play well. 'The Game is Our Teacher'

 

[Okie]

You are relying on the deflection while not allowing your perception to change on the shot. As you move to the TOI Target your visual perception will also create more of an angle. Cue speed in important and must be consistent, without seeing you hit balls I cant advise you, just make sure you're hitting the cue ball with an accelerating stroke that's accurate and is precisely hitting the TOI cue ball target. The Cue Ball is the Target, not the object ball, it's the "secondary target".

When I see a player doing this it's usually because they're trying to "force it" somehow. Just relax and let it happen, pool's about touch and feel and if you get to "uptight" you will reduce this from naturally happening.

This isn't a "mechanical" method, think of your shot-making as expressing yourself by creating and then connecting to the shot angles....this is much more effective in getting in the right "zone" to play well. 'The Game is Our Teacher'

I work very hard at pool. I have a full understanding of why pool must be played as if the shooter is painting a picture and not as if he/she is a robot.

I have had a lot of success utilizing a touch of inside while aiming a little fuller on a shot. I just have not been able to create an angle utilizing TOI.

So what about Luxury's question?

I watched the ppv yesterday and I have a question. CJ, are you using a high deflection shaft? I use a low deflection shaft and for me to get the needed deflection I have to hit really hard.

Ken

 

[CJ Wiley]

the "map," not the "territory".

I work very hard at pool. I have a full understanding of why pool must be played as if the shooter is painting a picture and not as if he/she is a robot.

I have had a lot of success utilizing a touch of inside while aiming a little fuller on a shot. I just have not been able to create an angle utilizing TOI.

So what about Luxury's question?



Ken

I play best with a shaft that has a low deflection. I don't use a LD shaft, like in a brand, I just do it with the tip size. Anything over a 12.5 mm deflects too much for me personally.

Remember, as you go Inside, your perception of the angle changes. This, again is something you have to experience, no one can tell you exactly how this will be done by you....in the end everyone must develop their own style and personality in their game. TOI is the "map," not the "territory".

 

[ENGLISH!]

You are relying on the deflection while not allowing your perception to change on the shot. As you move to the TOI Target your visual perception will also create more of an angle.... '

Hi CJ,

That highlighted statement sounds a bit like a rotation around to TOI & not a parallel shift.

You have stated several times to shoot the shots as though they are straight in. Can you elborate on what you mean by that? I'm just trying to get more of your insight.

If PJ was still around this would have popped up days ago.:wink:

I'm pocket balls fine, my combo play has improved, I'm still have trouble fine tuning position.

I can't put in the 3 weeks straight til my individual in house money league is over, but when it is, I will.

I'm a firm believer in TOI & I will be a 'total' believer when I get postion with it under control.

Best Regards to You &

 

[Tennesseejoe]

When will the videos be sent???

 

[sigep1967]

Hi CJ,

That highlighted statement sounds a bit like a rotation around to TOI & not a parallel shift.

You have stated several times to shoot the shots as though they are straight in. Can you elborate on what you mean by that? I'm just trying to get more of your insight.

If PJ was still around this would have popped up days ago.:wink:

I'm pocket balls fine, my combo play has improved, I'm still have trouble fine tuning position.

I can't put in the 3 weeks straight til my individual in house money league is over, but when it is, I will.

I'm a firm believer in TOI & I will be a 'total' believer when I get postion with it under control.

Best Regards to You &

English I am havring the opposite shape is easy but still missing some table length shots. I am amazed at how easy shapes are just by changing the vertical location of tip to change the angle off the OB. I still have trouble overcutting the long ones though still not calibrated in the brain yet I guess.

 

[ENGLISH!]

English I am havring the opposite shape is easy but still missing some table length shots. I am amazed at how easy shapes are just by changing the vertical location of tip to change the angle off the OB. I still have trouble overcutting the long ones though still not calibrated in the brain yet I guess.

I've been playing with english for 46 years, so I have been changing the normal rebound. With english I can all but guarantee that I will never be on the wrong side & I can hit much softer than is required with the TOI so I have more speed options.

I think it will come when I can devote a steady 2 to 3 weeks with it instead of bouncing back & forth from spin to TOI & back to spin again.

By long shots, do you mean long between CB & OB and are you mssing one way. That is one of the good things about TOI you should know why you mis unless your aim was just bad & I think that should be consistent.

Regards to You &

 

[sigep1967]

yeah long space between CB and OB usually overcut but I think it is that I am so used to backhand style english I just line up a bit wrong but man can put the cue ball seemingly anywhere after a shot. I am playing on a Diamond Pro 9ft with fairly tight pockets so I just got to get the deflection dialed in. Oh and one other thing is u have to commit to it and stroke it.