CA Pool Hall Sued Over Shooting Death

[TX Poolnut]

Pool hall sued over death
BY KAREN MAESHIRO, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/23/2007 08:30:24 PM PDT


PALMDALE - The parents of a 16-year-old Lancaster boy who was shot and killed while playing pool with family and friends have filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the pool hall and the suspect.

Alfredo Briano was shot Aug. 12, 2005, at Vaughn's Billiards in the 2000 block of East Palmdale Boulevard after he and his companions were confronted by suspected gang members who walked into the pool hall.

"This was a place that had a restriction on minors being in the place, and the victim was allowed in. They do let minors in on some days. This was not one of those days," said Joseph Lovretovich, attorney for Briano's parents. "My kid was just in the wrong place at the wrong time."

The lawsuit names as defendants Vaughn's Billiards and suspect Joseph Armondo Bonilla.

Bonilla was among four teenagers and two men who were charged in Briano's slaying. They have pleaded not guilty and are awaiting trial on murder charges.

Officials at Vaughn's had not seen the lawsuit and declined Friday to comment.

Sheriff's detectives said Briano and his companions had been playing pool and minding their own business when a group of six men and two women walked into the pool hall and challenged them about their gang association.

The boy and the others denied being gang members, investigators said. A fight broke out, and one of the assailants pulled out a gun and shot the boy.

After the shooting, witnesses told deputies, as many as five people got into a black sport utility vehicle and sped off. Deputies spotted an SUV matching the description and chased it until it stopped near Avenue Q and 4th Street East.

A gun believed to have been used in the slaying was found in weeds on a dirt road behind an apartment building, along the route the pursuit followed.

The lawsuit said Vaughn's "did not provide any security at their pool hall, despite their personal knowledge of gang activity, violence, shooting and other similar criminal activity occurring on the premises of the pool hall."

http://origin.dailynews.com/antelopevalley/ci_5508060

 

[gulfportdoc]

The lawsuit said Vaughn's "did not provide any security at their pool hall, despite their personal knowledge of gang activity, violence, shooting and other similar criminal activity occurring on the premises of the pool hall."

In my view the poolroom owner has no culpability. It's not up to him to provide for anybody's protection. If someone is shot at a car wash, should the car wash owner be at fault? If the poolroom was a known gang hangout or trouble spot, the city should have shut it down.

Doc

 

[Big Perm]

This law suit is exactly what is wrong with America and everytime I see one of these examples it makes me sick.

It's your kid - if he's in the pool hall, or a bar, or a crack house, it's either his or his parents fault. It's not up to law and society to play babysitter to the kids of the world. The owner of the pool/managers may have even known the kid was underage, but maybe they were trying to give him a safe place to do something constructive, keeping him off the street.

"My kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

And this is the owner's fault?

Sounds like another hard working American businessmen, just trying to make a living, being taken advantage of.....reminds me of a recent story about a good samaritan and a lost cue, but I can't quite place it

 

[TheHole]

i have to disagree....as a pool hall owner, it is my responsibility to provide a safe secure place for people to gather, since my business is a business people gather and stay for a long period of time(car wash is not, in and out in less than 30 minutes)......Every night I have 2 security guards on duty and they run a metal detector over you as you enter our pool hall.......noone has ever griped about being scanned or showing their ID as they enter.....sucks that is the world we live in but it is

 

[rhncue]

This law suit is exactly what is wrong with America and everytime I see one of these examples it makes me sick.

It's your kid - if he's in the pool hall, or a bar, or a crack house, it's either his or his parents fault. It's not up to law and society to play babysitter to the kids of the world. The owner of the pool/managers may have even known the kid was underage, but maybe they were trying to give him a safe place to do something constructive, keeping him off the street.

"My kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

And this is the owner's fault?

Sounds like another hard working American businessmen, just trying to make a living, being taken advantage of.....reminds me of a recent story about a good samaritan and a lost cue, but I can't quite place it

I don't know about the rest of the country but I do know that in Ohio, if you want a business, open to the public, then you MUST keep a safe environment or risk losing your license to be in business. If you knowingly allow trouble makers into your establishment then you are responsible for their conduct. If two strangers sit and argue for 15 minutes in your place and then one hurts the other then it was your responsibility even if you weren't there to have stopped the trouble before it got out of hand and you will pay. If two strangers come in and with little warning ones hurts the other then you are not responsible. If you want to allow trouble makers or criminal activity of others to occur in your place of business then expect to pay the price.

Dick

 

[smokeandapancak]

i have to disagree....as a pool hall owner, it is my responsibility to provide a safe secure place for people to gather, since my business is a business people gather and stay for a long period of time(car wash is not, in and out in less than 30 minutes)......Every night I have 2 security guards on duty and they run a metal detector over you as you enter our pool hall.......noone has ever griped about being scanned or showing their ID as they enter.....sucks that is the world we live in but it is

I visited the Hole's pool room when I was in Macon a month or so ago.... The place isnt on the "good side" of town...not the worst mind you... but not the best. Anyway as I was walking in the door I saw a sign on the front that set my mind at ease....it said something to the effect of "PULL UP YOUR PANTS>>NOBODY HERE WANTS TO SEE YOUR UNDERWEAR YOU WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE IF YOU FAIL TO COMPLY"... right there I knew that would like this joint!!!

Back to the thread... I think the owner has some liability do provide a safe place ..but the end of the day he cant be held responseabile for every patrons actions.

People are too sue happy nowadays...if something happens to you or yours alls you need to do is find a Lawyer and who knows you might just get something out of it...

 

[Deadon]

This law suit is exactly what is wrong with America and everytime I see one of these examples it makes me sick.

It's your kid - if he's in the pool hall, or a bar, or a crack house, it's either his or his parents fault. It's not up to law and society to play babysitter to the kids of the world. The owner of the pool/managers may have even known the kid was underage, but maybe they were trying to give him a safe place to do something constructive, keeping him off the street.

"My kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

And this is the owner's fault?

Sounds like another hard working American businessmen, just trying to make a living, being taken advantage of.....reminds me of a recent story about a good samaritan and a lost cue, but I can't quite place it

Its funny you thow a pool room in with bars and a crack house. Sort of like if your stupid enough to hang in there, well, your on your own. There is a logic to that, but pool rooms are places of business, like your grocery store, that as a group want to loose the "crack house" image you portray.

I dont know why you are so angry about this, but I assume you have something against lawsuits. Yes, there are bad ones. But as the other business owners, which I am betting your are not, have said, there is an obligation to keep your patrons safe, especially if you know that bad people frequent your business.

Think about it, you take your children to the local movie house. Drop them off and watch them go inside. One has been killed. Do you not ask the management, "why didnt you protect my child, I trusted you to take care of them." I would.

Mike

 

[smokeandapancak]

Its funny you thow a pool room in with bars and a crack house. Sort of like if you stupid enough to hang in there, well, your on your own. There is a logic to that, but pool rooms are places of business, like your grocery store, that as a group want to loose the "crack house" image you protray.

I dont know why you are so angry about this, but I assume you have something against lawsuits. Yes, there are bad ones. But as the other business owners, which I am betting your are not, have said, there is an obligation to keep your patrons safe, especially if you know that bad people frequent your business.

Think about it, you take your children to the local movie house. Drop them off and watch them go inside. One has been killed. Do you not ask the management, "why didnt you protect my child, I trusted you to take care of them." I would.

Mike

Eh....slow down there fella.....
I was with you for a little while there..but ya lost me ...
if some crack head rolls into a movie theater as starts letting rounds off..out of no where...and kills somebody.... you are saying that you would question the management of the place?.....I dunno 'bout that one ...

 

[breaktime2]

There won't be any pool playing places left in Palmdale after this. Of course I think anyone opening a business in California is nuts anyway

 

[Deadon]

Eh....slow down there fella.....
I was with you for a little while there..but ya lost me ...
if some crack head rolls into a movie theater as starts letting rounds off..out of no where...and kills somebody.... you are saying that you would question the management of the place?.....I dunno 'bout that one ...

Like the real story, if the management knew that gangs frequented the place, they would have the obligation to do something to prevent that type of incident. However random, spontaneous violence cannot usually be predicted, and no one would expect a normally safe place to be required to post security.

Your example is just such a random event. But consider, if the management knew that crack heads hung out there, used the phones to make deals, had a history of confrontations in the theatre. You and I as parents might not be aware of these things. Hell if we knew, we wouldnt let our kids go there. The key concept is whether the management knew or should have know that these people came in their place and presented a danger to other patrons. In the real life incident in the original post, that is exactly what they knew. Frankly, most of our rooms around here have some sort of security, at least at nights and weekends.

Hope your back on board.

Mike

 

[FLICKit]

PALMDALE - The parents of a 16-year-old Lancaster boy who was shot and killed while playing pool with family and friends have filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the pool hall and the suspect.
...
"This was a place that had a restriction on minors being in the place, and the victim was allowed in. They do let minors in on some days. This was not one of those days," said Joseph Lovretovich, attorney for Briano's parents. "My kid was just in the wrong place at the wrong time."

One aspect, I find odd about this, is the family suing the pool hall...

If the pool hall did something grossly negligent then that would be one thing. But if the pool hall did nothing outside of normal expected business, then the family should take responsibility for their choices.

If the family felt it was appropriate to bring their kid there, then I'd allow the family the benefit of the doubt to be the ultimate decision maker on what's best for their kid.

I'm sure technichally the law probably isn't written this way, but in my opinion it should be. Re-stated: The family should be the ultimate decision maker on what's best for their kid.

I've seen many a family who support their kid's pool playing hobby, and want to get them into places which will foster their kid's ability to further their skills. With the family's explicit consent, they should thus take the ultimate responsibility. This could thus aid in producing the next American pool champion, which would be the dream and desire of such kid and family.

 

[manwon]

Pool hall sued over death
BY KAREN MAESHIRO, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/23/2007 08:30:24 PM PDT


PALMDALE - The parents of a 16-year-old Lancaster boy who was shot and killed while playing pool with family and friends have filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the pool hall and the suspect.

Alfredo Briano was shot Aug. 12, 2005, at Vaughn's Billiards in the 2000 block of East Palmdale Boulevard after he and his companions were confronted by suspected gang members who walked into the pool hall.

"This was a place that had a restriction on minors being in the place, and the victim was allowed in. They do let minors in on some days. This was not one of those days," said Joseph Lovretovich, attorney for Briano's parents. "My kid was just in the wrong place at the wrong time."

The lawsuit names as defendants Vaughn's Billiards and suspect Joseph Armondo Bonilla.

Bonilla was among four teenagers and two men who were charged in Briano's slaying. They have pleaded not guilty and are awaiting trial on murder charges.

Officials at Vaughn's had not seen the lawsuit and declined Friday to comment.

Sheriff's detectives said Briano and his companions had been playing pool and minding their own business when a group of six men and two women walked into the pool hall and challenged them about their gang association.

The boy and the others denied being gang members, investigators said. A fight broke out, and one of the assailants pulled out a gun and shot the boy.

After the shooting, witnesses told deputies, as many as five people got into a black sport utility vehicle and sped off. Deputies spotted an SUV matching the description and chased it until it stopped near Avenue Q and 4th Street East.

A gun believed to have been used in the slaying was found in weeds on a dirt road behind an apartment building, along the route the pursuit followed.

The lawsuit said Vaughn's "did not provide any security at their pool hall, despite their personal knowledge of gang activity, violence, shooting and other similar criminal activity occurring on the premises of the pool hall."

http://origin.dailynews.com/antelopevalley/ci_5508060

I personally think that as the Owner of a Business, you are directly responsible for the actions of there Patrons, while on the premises. I own a pool room in Lakewood Washington, that I opened, remodeled and have since that time entirely rebuilt it reputation.

The location had been a pool room / game room since the late 1950's, I do not know exactly how many murders have taken place at this location since that time but, I do know of ten for certain. The business at this location before mine was operated by an Asian Gentleman who was involved with Prostitution, and he operated a Methamphetamine Lab in a back room. The DEA busted the location in 2001, the building was released after the Meth clean-up in 2004 when I took it over.

In the beginning, it was not an easy road. The old crowd tried to come back and take over my business like they had done in the past. However, I was prepared to take the necessary actions to resolve these problems. First of all, the Police are not the answer when dealing with these kind of people, and nether is any form of kindness, because they will take that for weakness. I was in the US. Army for 23 year's and I retired from service in 2003. While I am certain that many people may not agree with my approach to this problem, I handled these people on a personal basis myself on their level. I was aware what I would have to do to solve these issues before I opened this business and trust me it is the only way to gain the respect of these type of people and to so to speak put the word on the street that there is a new Sheriff in town.

Over the last two and half years since I opened this business, I have had no problems with the Police, and no disturbances after the first five months from individuals trying to test me. I also was granted a License to sell beer around eight months ago and City hall will if I ever require it give me any support I need. I have 7 BCA teams and 6 APA teams playing out of business, I have families coming in with their children, and my place is all ages even with the Beer.

I personally belief that as a business owner it is my responsibility to to ensure the safety of my customers. For those who assume this is not correct, you are wrong and if you open a business you will fail!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jay helfert]

Being a long time Californian, I have some knowledge of how pervasive the gang life style is out here. AND IT'S SCARY to say the least. "They" are everywhere and don't care where they take care of their business. Their badge is a gun, and every one of them has one.

We have gang killings here at restaurants, night clubs and concerts (of course), movie theaters, amusement parks, city parks, dances, private parties and anywhere on the street from South Central L.A. to Beverly Hills. And in ALL California communities!

You must be on your guard in our beautiful communities. If the thugs decide to cruise thru your neighborhood, better not piss them off, because guns will be a blazin'. They kill for any reason. Can be a driving error, a perceived insult or wearing the wrong color clothes!

Our state prisons are full of these gangsters, and more are being born to the "life style" every day. What happened at Vaughans could have easily happened in the liquor store next door or the 7-11 down the street. Trust me when I tell you, it is extremely hard to protect a business against crimes like these. These criminals have no boundaries.

I knew Vaughan, a damn good guy, who died young from a stroke a few years ago. I believe his ex was running the poolroom and now she will be out of business. Too bad.

 

[Fatboy]

When ever a case is filed in a situation like this the plaintiff names as many parties as possible, but as the case works it way through discovery most of the time alot of the defendants get tossed out of harms way, If the business owner was violating a civial code then it might stick, but if they are simpillay putting the key in the door everyday and opening up the business and have no ties to the gang then they will get dropped, I own alot of businesses and have 3-4 cases like this happen every year, i get named personally, the corporation does etc. never once has anything stuck.

now if the poolroom was involved with the gang activity or not enforcing a curfew law that is a civil code then there is a case and the pool room is in trouble, but if they are conducting their business abiding by all applicable laws they will be ok, getting named in a case dosent mean much in the earily stages.

 

[gulfportdoc]

i have to disagree....as a pool hall owner, it is my responsibility to provide a safe secure place for people to gather, since my business is a business people gather and stay for a long period of time(car wash is not, in and out in less than 30 minutes)......Every night I have 2 security guards on duty and they run a metal detector over you as you enter our pool hall.......noone has ever griped about being scanned or showing their ID as they enter.....sucks that is the world we live in but it is

Your decision to provide a safe, secure place is both logical and commendable. If I owned a room, I would likewise want to make my patrons feel secure. However it would be a business decision, not a legal one. Certainly the more safe a place is, the more people would want to patronize the establishment. However a business owner ought not be held legally liable for random harm that comes to one of his patrons. The one responsible is the perpetrator.

Doc

 

[TheHole]

Tell that to the lawyers we have elected to our individual state house's to represent us......the society we live in is what happens when you elect lawyers to make the laws of the land......in Ga. if you own a business where people "gather", it is the businesses responsibility to provide a safe enviroment for those people to gather. No different than WAL MART putting out a WET FLOOR sign....they are taking the responsible measures to ensure the safety of their customers.

I don't agree with the pool hall owner being sued (you can sue anyone, winning the lawsuit is what matters), but it is something you have to live with in the times of glorifying gansta's

 

[Gerry]

I don't see how this could be the business owners fault. If so, I guess we all should go out to the richest best insured business we can find, walk in, shoot eachother in the leg and sue everyone within shouting distance?!

no wonder my business liability insurance is so high.

Gerry

 

[Big Perm]

I re-read my post, I want to clear up a couple of items:

Yes, lawsuits do make me sick - they drive up prices, cause people to lose jobs, their businesses, and their livelihood.....so yeah, I get angry....people want something for nothing, and if they see an angle, they exploit it....

Second, the mother made it a point to state that he shouldn't be allowed in the pool hall at that time....ie, if he wasn't allowed in, he would still be alive......the world can't police a 16 year old....they can get fake ID's, some look older than 30, and the owner may have just been trying to help the kid get off the street.....if he shouldn't be there, then it's only his or his parent's fault - his sense of right or their teachings should keep him out of trouble.....or even if he was in a local bar, or as bad a place as a crack house....didn't mean to liken a pool hall or a bar to a crack house - just offering the last one as an extreme example.....the parents need to know where there kid is or taught him to avoid breaking the law....

Third, I don't know the place, but the level of security in a large majority of businesses in America couldn't stop me from walking in with a gun and taking out a few people.....most places don't expect this to happen and don't plan for it.....and gang members intimidate business owners as well.....if there is a history of violence here, I guess there is some ownership, but if there isn't, I just don't see putting this on the owner....

 

[td873]

However it would be a business decision, not a legal one.

I respectfully disagree. Business owners have a duty to under the law to provide a safe place for their patrons. They can be sued for breaching that civil duty. In addition, they may face criminal charges as well. It's like saying a bar shouldn't be fined for serving minors because they didn't know. Ignorance is no excuse. Or what about a business that leaves standing water on a tile floor. They are allowing a dangerous situation that their patrons shouldn't be responsible for. The owner has a duty to make their establishment safe.

However a business owner ought not be held legally liable for random harm that comes to one of his patrons. The one responsible is the perpetrator.

I believe that the criminal liability (perpetrator) and the civil liability (owner) are two different animals. The shooter should get time in jail, no doubt (and not the owner). But the owner derives a financial benefit from their business, and so, they have a responsibility to their clients. If they breach this duty, they are open to civil liability. If they are not 100% responsible, then the award will be reduced accordingly. But the owner should be allowed to turn a blind eye to dangerous situations. Allowing businesses to escape because they were busy playing ostrich is unreasonable.

The civil penalty (i.e., cash out of pocket) is used to encourage business owners to take steps to as part of their social contract. In turn, they pass this cost on to their consumers. That's how it's always been done...

As a practical matter, the insurance company is going to pay any sum to the parents anyway...

 

[gulfportdoc]

Business owners have a duty to under the law to provide a safe place for their patrons.

What law would that be? Can you quote a statute which would make a business owner responsible for a premeditated murder committed by a thug who simply walked into a place of business and shot another patron?

I don't know what kind of business you own, or to what extent you endeavor to protect people from premeditated murder on your premises. I own a business. I take steps to prevent people from slipping on wet floors, or tripping over debris. If a fight ever broke out, I'd probably call 911. After that, they're on their own.

Doc