CAD, CAM, CNC Control Software Discussion.

[Jr's Farm]

Hey guys,

Not sure if this is the right section for this or if the Machinery section would be better, but I figured this section would get a little more traffic, and it is still relevant IMO.

I recently started getting into some CNC on my own. It’s been awhile since I’ve done any CNC programming professionally, so I’m a little rusty. I thought it would make for good, relevant discussion to post a topic here instead of the CNCZone, where the uses are far-varying.

I’m looking for feedback for the CAM and Control portion of the CNC equation. For CAD I’m using AutoCad 2000LT, fwiw. I’d prefer to stay with that but I wouldn’t rule out a different CAD suite either.

The machine I’ll be using is a moving gantry setup running 4 axis via a Gecko G540 driver, so I’ll likely be using Mach3 for the machine control. Besides the obvious cue related inlay and such, I wouldn’t mind getting into some 3D stuff later on down the road, so expandability would be nice but not really required at this point.

After messing around with the Mach3 trial version and the beta LazyCam that comes with it, I’m pretty sure that I don’t want to use LazyCam. I don’t know enough about the programs yet to know any plusses and a minuses, other than LC is not very intuitive and doesn’t work like a good CAM should. Some of the professional CAM programs I’ve used in the past would allow you for layer naming in Autocad. Based on the naming nomenclature it would assign tool diameters, offsets, tool directions and other functions.
Do any of the less expensive CAM programs allow for that kind of function?

Anyway, with that being said, I was hoping to get an idea of what some of the cue makers here are using, as well as their experiences and learning curves. I’d like to not have to spend more than a few hundred for a basic 2D CAM, but would be willing to spend more for more function as well, it’s just not required to be full-tilt right now.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Mr Hoppe]

For controller sw, you really can't beat Mach 3 for the price. LazyCam, however, was an abandoned attempt at a CAM package, so there is not much future in that. Several here (including me) use BobCad, which is a pretty good CAD/CAM package for the money at about $500. If you know how to use it, it will do everything that you could want to do on a cue and then some. An added benefit is that if you get stuck on something, you can get some assistance here from others if you know who to ask.
Mr H

 

[fiolledapool]

For controller sw, you really can't beat Mach 3 for the price. LazyCam, however, was an abandoned attempt at a CAM package, so there is not much future in that. Several here (including me) use BobCad, which is a pretty good CAD/CAM package for the money at about $500. If you know how to use it, it will do everything that you could want to do on a cue and then some. An added benefit is that if you get stuck on something, you can get some assistance here from others if you know who to ask.
Mr H

I dont have experience with Bobcad so I ask, this program generate G-code? or you need other program for it

 

[scdiveteam]

G-Code

I dont have experience with Bobcad so I ask, this program generate G-code? or you need other program for it

Hi,

Bobcad generates the tool path & G-Code. After you have a G-Code file in Bobcad, you open it from Mach 3 and that program controls the CNC controller to mill the part.

Rick

 

[Mc2]

I dont have experience with Bobcad so I ask, this program generate G-code? or you need other program for it

I use bobcad 23 and will buy the next verstion when it comes out. I know that there may be better software out there however V23 is already way overkill for the type of work that we do. I upgraded to this ver. because it will work with the rotary axis. I have been able to do some interesting things with it. The training cd set covers every aspect of creating a part or pocket but is not spacific to inlays. You will have to know what you are doing or make alot of mistakes. You will not be able to pick up any cad cam and create good programs without experience. AS a side note, I have a couple diffent post that I use with bobcad for different applications. I haven't found one yet that bobcad has that I like. I don't use reference dogs on my machine and G54 screws me up too much as I forget to clear the work offsets.

Jim.

 

[fiolledapool]

I use bobcad 23 and will buy the next verstion when it comes out. I know that there may be better software out there however V23 is already way overkill for the type of work that we do. I upgraded to this ver. because it will work with the rotary axis. I have been able to do some interesting things with it. The training cd set covers every aspect of creating a part or pocket but is not spacific to inlays. You will have to know what you are doing or make alot of mistakes. You will not be able to pick up any cad cam and create good programs without experience. AS a side note, I have a couple diffent post that I use with bobcad for different applications. I haven't found one yet that bobcad has that I like. I don't use reference dogs on my machine and G54 screws me up too much as I forget to clear the work offsets.

Jim.

other stupid question, sorry......but Can I tapered butts and shaft with Bobcad?
Some Bobcad version or patch in Spanish?

 

[JoeyInCali]

other stupid question, sorry......but Can I tapered butts and shaft with Bobcad?
Some Bobcad version or patch in Spanish?

Tapering is cake.
Learn to do manual commands.
But, you can draw your butts and shafts and plot it .
Easiest way to taper imho is on mill mode ( not lathe mode ).
Center of the live and dead center are Y0.
Y10 (MM ) would be 20 MM round on my setup.
Make sure all your programs end with going away from the dead center.
I don't use the Z axis so I just end them all with 25MM away from center.

 

[Mc2]

other stupid question, sorry......but Can I tapered butts and shaft with Bobcad?
Some Bobcad version or patch in Spanish?

Joey is correct. Tapering is easy with g-code. Bobcad will also let you taper however the actual lathe portion of bobcad is an add on. You will want to ask for it if you want it. By the way. I just set up a taper profile in Mach 3. This is what the Mach3 loader is for. I still use the y axis for my diameter (different from conv. lathes), and I cut the steps per unit (inch in my case) in half. This allows me to set DRO to actual size. I am lazy and this is easier to me.


Jim.

 

[Jr's Farm]

The training cd set covers every aspect of creating a part or pocket but is not spacific to inlays. You will have to know what you are doing or make alot of mistakes.

Are you saying that the 10 disk, $395 training CD set isn't specific enough for inlays? For the money, are the training CD's worth the investment or would one be fine with the videos on the website?

AS a side note, I have a couple diffent post that I use with bobcad for different applications. I haven't found one yet that bobcad has that I like.
Jim.

What are issues with the posts? What is your controller and machine setup?

Regards,
Frank

 

[Mc2]

Are you saying that the 10 disk, $395 training CD set isn't specific enough for inlays? For the money, are the training CD's worth the investment or would one be fine with the videos on the website?




What are issues with the posts? What is your controller and machine setup?

Regards,
Frank

I picked up the cd set for $200. Are they worth the $? My answer would be yes. They answer most of the questions that you may have. They will show you how to draw simple and complex shapes. How to create a pocket and a profile. Then how to generate the g-code. What they do not show you is how to take a 1/32 tool bit and cut x number of passes x amount deep at x feedrate to rough out a pocket, then reverse direction an re-profile your pocket with a 1/64th bit without breaking any tools. The best information on this was from Precise Bit's web site. There is information there written by Josey and Joss. This is worth reading even though you should develope your own method. If there are any additonal sources for this please let me know.

I have a taig, storm, and the only lightning machine. None of them have any homing switches on them. There are no switches becasue when I assembled the machines I chose not to use them. I am happy just touching off my tools to set postions and not using offsets. Mach3 allows you to change the DROs on the fly. What I didn't like about the post that came with Bobcad is that they generate a G54 calling a work offset. If you forget to clear the work offsets out Mach3 will use the work offset and my spindle plunges into my hard work. So I modified the post so that the g-code does not include work offsets. I also created a post call raw g-code that only outputs just the move commands so I can drop the program into a sub-program that I created. I can quickly index the same pocket as an example. By the way, I want to rough out all pockets befor I profile with the smaller mits. I am lazy. I only want to change the bit once. Touch off the tool and reset z zero and go.

Jim.

 

[Jr's Farm]

What they do not show you is how to take a 1/32 tool bit and cut x number of passes x amount deep at x feedrate to rough out a pocket, then reverse direction an re-profile your pocket with a 1/64th bit without breaking any tools.

Is this process difficult to achieve in Bob? Are you able to use the same code, just pick a different diameter of tool and specify conventional milling, or do you have to re-import into CAM and generate all new G-code?
In short, how difficult is it to rough a pocket/profile and then subsequently do a clean-up?

Forgive me if these are silly questions. Without having my machine yet (another 3 weeks) and having been along time (5 years) since I've been involved with this, I may get confused rather easily.

I am happy just touching off my tools to set postions and not using offsets. Mach3 allows you to change the DROs on the fly. What I didn't like about the post that came with Bobcad is that they generate a G54 calling a work offset. If you forget to clear the work offsets out Mach3 will use the work offset and my spindle plunges into my hard work.

If I'm getting the picture, work offsets are different than tool offsets. Correct?

Are the work offsets just a way of locating your workpiece in real space then? I'm guessing that you're jogging to a reference point to 'zero in' then?

I'm sure this will make more sense in a couple weeks after I've messed with the software some, I'm just trying to get a head-start before the machine shows up.

Thanks for the input guys!
Frank

 

[Jr's Farm]

Also, what benefits would there be if I got Mach3 through Bobcad?
I just saw another thread (thanks Jim) mentioning that option.
Seeing that I don't have Mach3 yet, would it be worth paying the full $200 for that ability?

Also, anyone here using Bobart or the lathe package? Can the lathe package be used with the 4th axis on the mill or is that just another silly question?

 

[JoeyInCali]

If I'm getting the picture, work offsets are different than tool offsets. Correct?

Yes.
Work offset usually is where you set you zero's after edgefinding it.
The machine moves according to the work offset number.

 

[Mc2]

Also, what benefits would there be if I got Mach3 through Bobcad?
I just saw another thread (thanks Jim) mentioning that option.
Seeing that I don't have Mach3 yet, would it be worth paying the full $200 for that ability?

Also, anyone here using Bobart or the lathe package? Can the lathe package be used with the 4th axis on the mill or is that just another silly question?

Yup, you are getting the general idea of the work offsets. I like to keep my life simple. Well I am at least making it simpler if I can. I would hold off on my purchase of Mach3 until I knew my purchase would carry to the next ver. comming out. On Mach's forum I have read some news about Mach3 will no longer be updated and a new ver. is in the works. I believe that it will not be free to current customers. May want to ask questions. You should be able to just buy Mach3 direct or from a dealer at any time for around $165 or less.

Anyways on your prev. questions. Yes bobcad can do the pocket and the profile in the directions that you want, however the training cd set does not go into detail on the senario that a cue maker use. Even this will be different from cue builder to cue builder. You will have to bring that informatin together yourself though it is broken up in the training cd set.

Jim.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Jim is right, I wouldn't buy Mach3 through BobCad for $200, as I think you can get it through Lee (Brianna186) for $150 or less. It can be had straight from Artsoft for $175. BobCad has said that their next version will have some Mach3 integration.

I thought that I had read previously that a license was good for all versions of the sw, past/present/future. But in looking to confirm that belief, I could only find these statements:

"ArtSoft software has been developed with an active community of volunteers, testers, and helpful experts who have guided its development over a period of years. In appreciation to this community, a registered user is permitted to use all versions of Mach software with one license."

"In the past 4 years, Artsoft has freely updated all previous versions of Mach for its customers. This policy still remains today. Any current version of Mach will be free to update for the duration of its development."

Maybe I misinterpreted. Regardless, start with the free un-registered version and get your feet wet. It's only limitation is on the number of lines of g-code that it will run in one program. The free version is limited to 500 lines . . . 10,000,000 after you purchase. Read all about it here: http://www.machsupport.com/
Mr H

 

[Jr's Farm]

I was just wondering if the integrated Mach3 feature was worth the difference in price. If it's simply a matter of opening another program and hitting a button or two then obviously I'll stick with the cheaper option.

Anybody here that was using Mach2 when Mach3 was released? If so, what happened then, did you have to pay for an upgrade?

Any idea when the next Mach is rumored to be available?

Frank

(edit) Oh yeah, anybody have any idea if and when nesting will be available in Bob v23?

 

[Kenny]

I was told just yesterday by the head of BobCad sales that nesting for V23 would be out in 2 weeks. I'll just hold my breath!

Kenny Murrell

 

[Mc2]

I was told just yesterday by the head of BobCad sales that nesting for V23 would be out in 2 weeks. I'll just hold my breath!

Kenny Murrell

Thanks for the heads up Kenny. They will call me for sure. They always do when they have something new to sell. I will get them to put lathe mode and bobart trainging cds into the deal.

Jim.

 

[dchristal]

I've been trying to figure out how to get them to add lathe mode too. What do you figure it's worth?

 

[Mc2]

I've been trying to figure out how to get them to add lathe mode too. What do you figure it's worth?

I cheat. I just tell them that I work for FANUC. They want me to advertise to my customers. I would get them to through it in with something else that they want to sell. I would say get them to through in the training cd set, or nesting that may be comming out soon all for $200. If ou go for the training cd set, make sur they include the ones for bobart. They gave me the lathe ones for free I think because I don't have that option turned on. It has to be worth it to the sales person as they work on comition.

Jim.