Can a pool tournament be played with handicap draw

[naji]

I was thinking, could a tournament be run such as all none pro players draw from a bucket of handicap tickets? similar to US Open seeded draw, but instead of drawing just players, they have on the tickets the handicap. an example, of a ticket, SVB- the 6, SVB, the 8, or DAZ, the 5, or DAZ even, or Efren - the break, and 2 balls...

I know it is silly, but this could entice lower level players to participate , based on their luck of the draw! but could detract pros!!

Just asking. Thanks

 

[Black-Balled]

A: all can never be none.

2- handicapped events happen all the time. Drink your damn coffee and wake up.

 

[naji]

A: all can never be none.

2- handicapped events happen all the time. Drink your damn coffee and wake up.

BB seriously, Handicap tournaments that i know, have pre-selected handyicaps for players, based on previous tournaments events, i am talking about luck of the draw for the handicap..

 

[336Robin]

I was thinking, could a tournament be run such as all none pro players draw from a bucket of handicap tickets? similar to US Open seeded draw, but instead of drawing just players, they have on the tickets the handicap. an example, of a ticket, SVB- the 6, SVB, the 8, or DAZ, the 5, or DAZ even, or Efren - the break, and 2 balls...

I know it is silly, but this could entice lower level players to participate , based on their luck of the draw! but could detract pros!!

Just asking. Thanks

I don't see that happening on any large scale. The minute a 3 draws a 5 or 6 and starts complaining its over. The only person that might benefit is the better players. Who wouldn't want a 3 handicap from a 3 who was rated a 6? That's sort of a lock.

 

[naji]

I don't see that happening on any large scale. The minute a 3 draws a 5 or 6 and starts complaining its over. The only person that might benefit is the better players. Who wouldn't want a 3 handicap from a 3 who was rated a 6? That's sort of a lock.

Thanks, 336Robin, my thought is to seed all pros or top players, and have lower skilled players draw their handicap! this way it could take the argument that why this guy get the 6 or that is playing with the 7..etc.

 

[Black-Balled]

You mean handicaps would be based on luck instead of skill level?

For instance, each player would draw a card that indicated a particular handicap and then the matches would be played accordingly to the handicaps drawn, not the actual ability of the player(s)?

If so, that is ridiculous and you should be ashamed to have set that idea to e-paper. I understand the desire to come up with new ideas for the forum and sport in general, but come on.

Would you really play an event regularly where you had an equal chance of gettin and givin a spot to one (or more than one) who plays WORLDS better than you?

If you allege yes, then you would be real open to excuses to skip it after week 1.

 

[naji]

You mean handicaps would be based on luck instead of skill level?

For instance, each player would draw a card that indicated a particular handicap and then the matches would be played accordingly to the handicaps drawn, not the actual ability of the player(s)?

If so, that is ridiculous and you should be ashamed to have set that idea to e-paper. I understand the desire to come up with new ideas for the forum and sport in general, but come on.

Would you really play an event regularly where you had an equal chance of gettin and givin a spot to one (or more than one) who plays WORLDS better than you?

If you allege yes, then you would be real open to excuses to skip it after week 1.

Thanks for the input BB, the idea is, it is hard to know the true skill of a player, rather than picking it from the air and everyone complains, why not draw it, this way if it is weekly tourney the luck could rotate and accept their fate..again just an idea..

 

[Black-Balled]

Thanks for the input BB, the idea is, it is hard to know the true skill of a player, rather than picking it from the air and everyone complains, why not draw it, this way if it is weekly tourney the luck could rotate and accept their fate..again just an idea..

Handicaps are not picked from the air and successful tournaments are generally those that have high numbers of players,

High numbers of players almost always means may repeat customers.

Repeat customers' skill levels are evident in results, both individual matches and overall finishes.

Handicaps are thusly, basically not 'pulled from air'.

 

[336Robin]

The concept

Thanks for the input BB, the idea is, it is hard to know the true skill of a player, rather than picking it from the air and everyone complains, why not draw it, this way if it is weekly tourney the luck could rotate and accept their fate..again just an idea..

Naji,
I think I understand what youre trying to say and do but this idea doesn't get it there. Whenever people are parting with money they want equal chances to win. That's the reason that handicap tournaments exist and you don't see people who play handicap events rushing to play events where you play even with the whole field.

I think if you stick with ideas for tournaments where fun is the main attraction that's a great way to attract amateur players but when their money is involved I don't see diluting their chances is going to work. I wouldn't be interested. I would just find someone to play and make my own game. I would get a lot more chances and a lot more opportunity to play.

Money has a way of mucking things up on the amateur level when you start giving it out to better players. They might as well just play it even and not many want to do that.

 

[naji]

Naji,
I think I understand what youre trying to say and do but this idea doesn't get it there. Whenever people are parting with money they want equal chances to win. That's the reason that handicap tournaments exist and you don't see people who play handicap events rushing to play events where you play even with the whole field.

I think if you stick with ideas for tournaments where fun is the main attraction that's a great way to attract amateur players but when their money is involved I don't see diluting their chances is going to work. I wouldn't be interested. I would just find someone to play and make my own game. I would get a lot more chances and a lot more opportunity to play.

Money has a way of mucking things up on the amateur level when you start giving it out to better players. They might as well just play it even and not many want to do that.

I hear you, but at one of our local tournaments a while back, many lower skill players do not want to play because they had no chance of wining, and they object to the handicap given to them? how can you make them join?

 

[takeitdown]

Here's an idea

Just handicap top pros and second tier pros so advanced players would be willing to pay bug entry for a decent chance at bigger payouts? I think the top 30 players in the US can give anybody 11 games to 9 and still win. We could have big events like poker and get some ridiculous payouts. Imagine the good that could come from Joe Schmo from Paduk winning like $55,000 for third place. It would just snowball.

It's gotten to the point that nearly every pro event has just 3-5 guys who are supposed to win and event the #10 guy in the field is lucky to place.

Handicapping can be done at any level. We all know who the real players are in the country...very few surprises.

 

[takeitdown]

I hear you, but at one of our local tournaments a while back, many lower skill players do not want to play because they had no chance of wining, and they object to the handicap given to them? how can you make them join?

Make it A and up on one side and B+ and down on the other. Then when there are 2 players from each skill level left, have them play each other. It ensures 2 payouts to the weaker players. Doesn't encourage improvement, but that's another issue.

 

[naji]

Make it A and up on one side and B+ and down on the other. Then when there are 2 players from each skill level left, have them play each other. It ensures 2 payouts to the weaker players. Doesn't encourage improvement, but that's another issue.

Thanks. Yet again some players always ***** and moan, and wants lower handicap than assigned to them; whether bargaining for better or serious!

 

[336Robin]

Thanks. Yet again some players always ***** and moan, and wants lower handicap than assigned to them; whether bargaining for better or serious!

That's almost an argument for having tournament for separate skill levels. Like have A's and above and B's and below tournaments.

That would also depend on your intent. If you are doing this mainly for fun you might get some B's and below but if its done for money you are going to have to scratch some up for the A's and above bracket most likely and your handicap of them will really matter.

 

[Black-Balled]

That's almost an argument for having tournament for separate skill levels. Like have A's and above and B's and below tournaments.

That would also depend on your intent. If you are doing this mainly for fun you might get some B's and below but if its done for money you are going to have to scratch some up for the A's and above bracket most likely and your handicap of them will really matter.

Which...IMO, reduces the potential entrant pool and is therefore a poor idea.

 

[scttybee]

naji,
tournaments arent about fun for the people you are trying to handicap,they are some form of job or way to get in the cash.i know not everyone thinks this but ask any A player or above if he or she stays out on a tuesday till 3am for fun or fairness..sorry bud but the mass amount should say no.not trying to crush your idea but i notice by your posts you want to even things up a little too much.Its competition and should be treated as such

 

[iusedtoberich]

An interesting out of the box idea to randomize handicap levels.

What I see happening, however, is it will always benefit the best players, always worsen the weakest players, and the middle players will be equally benefited and non-beneffited, over the long term.

Lets say on the in-house weekly $10 9 ball tournament, you have players that "today" are rated on the in-house tournament from a scale of 1-10, 1 being best, 10 being worst.

Now, if you randomize the handicaps, the level 1 player (best) has an equal chance of being rated 1 through 10. 9 out of 10 of these ratings are favorable to him. So his chance of winning the tournament has significantly improved.

The level 10 player (the worst) will have an equal chance of being rated 1 through 10. 9 out of 10 of these ratings are non-favorable to him. So his chance of winning the tournament has significantly decreased.

The level 5 player, has an equal chance of being rated higher or lower.

 

[naji]

An interesting out of the box idea to randomize handicap levels.

What I see happening, however, is it will always benefit the best players, always worsen the weakest players, and the middle players will be equally benefited and non-beneffited, over the long term.

Lets say on the in-house weekly $10 9 ball tournament, you have players that "today" are rated on the in-house tournament from a scale of 1-10, 1 being best, 10 being worst.

Now, if you randomize the handicaps, the level 1 player (best) has an equal chance of being rated 1 through 10. 9 out of 10 of these ratings are favorable to him. So his chance of winning the tournament has significantly improved.

The level 10 player (the worst) will have an equal chance of being rated 1 through 10. 9 out of 10 of these ratings are non-favorable to him. So his chance of winning the tournament has significantly decreased.

The level 5 player, has an equal chance of being rated higher or lower.

Thanks for reply, the main point is to seed good known players in the bracket (not mix them with low level players), and just have lower level players draw with random handicap tickets against these seeded players. I add maintain the handicap through out the tourney !! maybe!! if they play seeded players at any round!!

 

[Black-Balled]

Thanks for reply, the main point is to seed good known players in the bracket (not mix them with low level players), and just have lower level players draw with random handicap tickets against these seeded players. I add maintain the handicap through out the tourney !! maybe!! if they play seeded players at any round!!

Here you go again, defending a bad idea.

Iusedtoberich just spent a bunch of letters illustrating why it is a bad idea: the people who require the biggest handicaps are only going to get less. Why would you want that to happen?

 

[naji]

Here you go again, defending a bad idea.

Iusedtoberich just spent a bunch of letters illustrating why it is a bad idea: the people who require the biggest handicaps are only going to get less. Why would you want that to happen?

Thanks BB, you are one of about 6000 AZBers world wide , lets hear what others say. I am not faulting you, but lets sit back and relax and enjoy the good and the bad.