I think Allison can and will do very well... she's spent her whole life being told her skill is lesser than any man in whatever billiard sport she's played in, it seems no matter how well she does... So, knowing her drive and mental attitude, I believe she'll do great. She learns quickly from prior mistakes and doesn't let them bother her...she'll give a good fight.
Can Allison Fisher Make Sports History At Ipt??
- Thread starter 8-ball bernie
- Start date
Rickw said:
I said the same .But i do feel she will do very well..But alot of men hate to lose to a lady..And there will be a lot of men that will lose to her ..
she has no shot to win. In a round robin format she might do well and beat a few men. But she will be playing 8 ball on slow cloth. Watching her recently get out of line all the time playing on simonis with the women made me doubt whether she can beat most of the men on any consistent basis. Sure, maybe she takes a match once in a while. But I think her supporters should hope she puts on a good show, because there also isn't a guarantee it won't be ugly. I wissh her well, but if I were betting, I can't imagine putting my cash on her over a male pro less than 55 whom I have heard of.
But you know what? The great thing in the IPT is that all our speculation doesn't matter a bit. Allison stepped up to play and she will get a chance. Her cue will do the talking. I am not sure of people will like the results, but that's why they are playing the event. Which is nice that everybody can see exactly how she will do.
But you know what? The great thing in the IPT is that all our speculation doesn't matter a bit. Allison stepped up to play and she will get a chance. Her cue will do the talking. I am not sure of people will like the results, but that's why they are playing the event. Which is nice that everybody can see exactly how she will do.
8-ball bernie said:
I'm worried about you Bernie. The truth is Allison is a terrific player and she is capable of upsetting any one of the top male pros. The problem for her (or anyone male or female of her caliber) is she will be playing in a tournament where even if she gets a good draw and wins early when it comes down closer to the end she will have to upset many top players one after the other and for most mere mortals this is not possible. She is a very, very good player but if you think she could beat Reyes, Archer, Strickland etc one after the other (which is the caliber of players at the end) then you probably have not played against any of them and are not aware of how good they are. If Alison was as good as Earl Strickland she would have about a 5% chance of winning the King of the Hill. If Vegas was handicapping it (and it was played legitimate) she would probably be at least 200-1.
Wayne
we shall see, shallen't we?
Deanna Michelle said:
No matter how well she does "against women". She has had plenty of opportunity to play against the top men in tournaments like the Sands or DCC and prove everyone wrong, she chooses not to. If people are out there telling her she is not as good as the men she has done NOTHING to prove them wrong, she can dominate the WPBA all she wants but that does nothing to prove those telling her she is not at the top mens calibre wrong.
Now comes the IPT, now we finally get to see if she has what it takes. Maybe she does, she definately shoots a strong game of pool. But ATM as far as world class pool at the top male professional level she has done nothing to prove she can play at the level of the top 20 men in the world.
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Great thread. I'll address the three main points I've seen in numerous posts separately:
1) Allison's break, which is weak by men's standard, will really hurt her chances
I strongly agree. To spread the balls really well on a nine foot table in eight ball requires quite a bit of power.
2) Allison's stroke will hold her back on slow, nappy cloth
I strongly disagree. Even by men's standards, Allison's stroke is very powerful. I don't think the slow, nappy cloth will prove a problem at all.
3) Allison's lack of eight ball exeprience will haunt her
I strongly disagree. At the 2000 US Open 14.1 Championships, Allison showed how quickly she can adapt to a game requiring self-designed patterns and difficult safety play.
Finally, there's an intangible not being considered here. Allison is a champion with a history of being able to play her best when the stakes are highest. Two years running (2002 and 2003) she faced a one rack playoff in the Challenge of Champions at Mohegan Sun, a winner take all event for 25,000 and each time she ran the rack to claim the prize. At the Amway Cup in Taiwan, where the top prize is 20,000, Allison has consistently found her highest level to win the event numerous times. Allison's ability to find her best game under maximum pressure is to be taken seriously.
Still, while I can imagine a high finish for Fisher, I cannot imagine a win. Then again, I'd be very happy to be wrong on this occasion.
1) Allison's break, which is weak by men's standard, will really hurt her chances
I strongly agree. To spread the balls really well on a nine foot table in eight ball requires quite a bit of power.
2) Allison's stroke will hold her back on slow, nappy cloth
I strongly disagree. Even by men's standards, Allison's stroke is very powerful. I don't think the slow, nappy cloth will prove a problem at all.
3) Allison's lack of eight ball exeprience will haunt her
I strongly disagree. At the 2000 US Open 14.1 Championships, Allison showed how quickly she can adapt to a game requiring self-designed patterns and difficult safety play.
Finally, there's an intangible not being considered here. Allison is a champion with a history of being able to play her best when the stakes are highest. Two years running (2002 and 2003) she faced a one rack playoff in the Challenge of Champions at Mohegan Sun, a winner take all event for 25,000 and each time she ran the rack to claim the prize. At the Amway Cup in Taiwan, where the top prize is 20,000, Allison has consistently found her highest level to win the event numerous times. Allison's ability to find her best game under maximum pressure is to be taken seriously.
Still, while I can imagine a high finish for Fisher, I cannot imagine a win. Then again, I'd be very happy to be wrong on this occasion.
Nostroke said:
While Allison's break was once weak relative to the women, I would agree that, by women's professional standards, Allison now has a strong break.
I just feel that her break will prove well below average on the IPT. Who knows? Maybe she'll prove me wrong, but that's my best guess.
Schwinn said:
Alex Pagulayan
Johnny Archer
Thorsten Hohmann
Efren Reyes
Francisco Bustamente
Corey Deuel
Chin Shun Yang
Chia Chang Wu
Fong Pang Chao
Ralf Souquet
Niels Feijen
Earl Strickland
Marlon Manalo
Mika Immonen
Po Cheng Kuo
Gabe Owen
Rodney Morris
Mike Sigel
Nick Van de Berg
Jeremy Jones
Evgeny Stalev
Shannon Daulton
Shawn Putnam
Tony Robles
Marcus Chamat
There is a list of 25 great male players (by no means complete with names like Orttman, Drago, Schmidt, Alcano, Luat, Orcullo, Nevel, Parica, ect... not even on the list). I would be really interested in knowing which 15 of those male players on the list you rank Allison ahead of in skill such that she makes the top 10 of pool players today, let alone any one of those men you would actually venture to say honestly that Allison shoots better then and that you would back her in a set against for significant money in a 9 ahead set.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
sjm said:
The break in eight ball is not all about power. I don't know how much eight ball any of you have really played. If you have played much at all then you know that sometimes a hard break is what does the job and sometimes a medium break works better. At the LJJ/SIGEL match Mike wasn't killing the rack and Loree Jon's break was certainly less than Mike's but both of them made balls and had runnable tables after the break. You'll see what I mean when the match airs. If Loree Jon can break the balls and get good layouts then so can Allison, Karen, Kelly, Monica, Gerda, Sarah, Tammy, Ewa, and Linda, but most especially, Allison, Karen and Kelly.
I think that most of you have the break overrated in terms of how much power you think is needed. One thing you fail to reallize is that with a super hard break the balls go flying around the table and do what........ they cluster up.
The only reason Allison and the others will have a hard time winning is because they will face tough competition and lots of it. I for one am excited to see it finally happen that the best women can compete with the best men. I hope that it will encourage more women to take up the game AND that it will encourage more women to participate in tougher tournaments.
John
Interesting observation John.onepocketchump said:
As you saw the game, how would you rate the speed of the cloth?
From the short video on the website it looked plenty fast enough for me. Similar to most club tables I play on, but appreciably slower than the super slick new simonis cloths.
Maybe... We'll just have to see how she performs against the great male players. There is the intangible of added pressure on the men to beat her though, and that most certainly will work in her favor, whether she wants it to or not.
If Allison's break is a handicap she can always break safe ala' straight pool/snooker. The side rail break - hitting the ball below the head ball - can create a nice spread w/o requiring power, and making balls in addition to the 8 ball in the side pocket is a very good possibility. Mike Sigel used the same break @ an '80's 8 ball tournament... he made the 8 three times in a row against Mizerak!
Simonis wasn't used then either so all this slow nappy cloth/big breakers vs. Allison's weak break may not be as big a factor many seem to think. There's a lot of strategy and defense in 8 ball too which bodes well for Allison and her chances. She is very familiar with the game and knows it well. That being said, her ability to out wit, run out and string racks is key.
I hope Allison makes a great showing and proves she can beat the top male players the way Jean Balukus did. In any event, none of the guys who play her have to like it or will consider her a bye IMO!
If Allison's break is a handicap she can always break safe ala' straight pool/snooker. The side rail break - hitting the ball below the head ball - can create a nice spread w/o requiring power, and making balls in addition to the 8 ball in the side pocket is a very good possibility. Mike Sigel used the same break @ an '80's 8 ball tournament... he made the 8 three times in a row against Mizerak!
Simonis wasn't used then either so all this slow nappy cloth/big breakers vs. Allison's weak break may not be as big a factor many seem to think. There's a lot of strategy and defense in 8 ball too which bodes well for Allison and her chances. She is very familiar with the game and knows it well. That being said, her ability to out wit, run out and string racks is key.
I hope Allison makes a great showing and proves she can beat the top male players the way Jean Balukus did. In any event, none of the guys who play her have to like it or will consider her a bye IMO!
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