Can someone fill me in on the quality of pool videos

PanicKJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So in this day and age where I can take a high definition video with my cell phone can someone explain why all pool vidoes are of crappy quality? I would love to be able to watch some high definition pool on my 56" television however most of the videos don't even hold up well on my computer screen.

Is this due to the streaming process/youtube limitations? Are these videos being compressed and losing quality??

No disrespect meant to todays streamers as I enjoy the videos, I just would like to know what it would take to get HD quality pool videos in the home.
 
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I've spent a lot of money (not going to say how much) to improve the look and quality of my live stream and I hope you enjoy it.

my live stream is www.ustream.tv/channel/povpool

some of my work goes to YouTube which, a lot of the old stuff is as bad as you were describing, but has changed since I made the upgrades - Such as this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfRx5w-D3fE

There are several issues which affect picture quality which do not always boil down to having a great camera.

Bandwidth
Processor
Camera
Lighting

My rule of thumb now is to have a least 3 out of 4 of those things before I even consider doing a show at a venue.
 
I watched your stream from Hard Times last night and definitely enjoyed it. I would love to know what the video looked like if you hooked your camera directly up to a HD TV and played. How much quality do we loose in the process of streaming the video. Even though I have fiber optic internet I have to have a decent size buffer to watch a HD movie. So I have to assume that some of the quality is lost in a stream feed??

Thanks for your reply POV and thanks for the great videos. Great commentating as well on your vids.
 
So in this day and age where I can take a high definition video with my cell phone can someone explain why all pool vidoes are of crappy quality? I would love to be able to watch some high definition pool on my 56" television however most of the videos don't even hold up well on my computer screen.

Is this due to the streaming process/youtube limitations? Are these videos being compressed and losing quality??

No disrespect meant to todays streamers as I enjoy the videos, I just would like to know what it would take to get HD quality pool videos in the home.

I think ALL is a bit of a stretch. www.theactionreport.com www.insidepool.tv Ultimate 10 ball on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/ultimate10balltv?feature=g-high-rch are just some of the places where you can find some very a ton of good recorded quality matches.

Most of the lower quality streams are usually from the location bandwidth issues, some use cheap webcams for their streams. I'd say MOST of the stuff now is in HD or close to it, at least from the known streamers. I wish star billiards had a better streaming setup, they tend to have some high quality matches with several cameras but the video quality is not good.
 
You are correct, I shouldn't have said all videos, some are definitely better than others. I watch a lot of TAR videos, and just recently since joining AZ I have been watching POV pool videos. But even these which have the best quality are not the same as what you would see on television. For example if you look at the edges of the pool table you can see stair stepping. Is this a product of the internet, compressing the video for streaming? Or do the HD cameras used for televised sports using higher megapixels?

I guess I am mainly asking, is the quality diminished from the streaming process?

Again I am super appreciative of the videos that are out there. I spend many many hours a week watching them!
 
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So in this day and age where I can take a high definition video with my cell phone can someone explain why all pool vidoes are of crappy quality? I would love to be able to watch some high definition pool on my 56" television however most of the videos don't even hold up well on my computer screen.

Is this due to the streaming process/youtube limitations? Are these videos being compressed and losing quality??

No disrespect meant to todays streamers as I enjoy the videos, I just would like to know what it would take to get HD quality pool videos in the home.

There is a lot of bandwidth constraints today, and a large number of factors render streams good and some bad. Hang-The-9 is most certainly correct that streamed video from locations can vary based on the connection which will dictate 'live' quality, but not necessarily watching a replay on YouTube. Most streamers locally record and then upload the higher quality content after the fact to some form of on demand service. #1 choice, obviously, YouTube. #2 Vimeo.

Daniel @ POV did a tremendous job upgrading his equipment and his streams are as good as what the streaming networks will allow, and obviously, what the local bandwidth will allow as well.

YouTube (the masters at on the fly trans-coding) can now offer up superb quality options as of recent from uploaded local recordings at many resolutions and bit rates from just 1 high quality video stored on their network. This allows the video to adapt to bandwidth constraints or size of the screen of the viewer, which is great saving bandwidth ON BOTH ENDS!. (Mind you, YouTube is owned by Google and is why they succeed at everything they buy and touch.)

Everything we watch today on the internet is compressed with the h264 codec for the most part. Mind you, we also watch mpeg4 h264 on our televisions through the cable and satellites now too! This gives everyone who is involved with delivering video over any digital network flexibility.

The fuzz or stairs effect you see on some videos stems from the incompatibility of the camera ACVHD and the capturing device. I've noticed this with cheaper cameras. There are a few cameras on the market that output uncompressed AVCHD through HDMI or SDI which offer superb loss-less video before it is captured and encoded to h264 for Computers. Most affordable capture devices, $200 range, will only do 1080i (interlaced) which also degrades the quality before it hits the broadcasting software, and then it is re-encoded again in h264 at a specific resolution and bit rate to succeed over the current bandwidth from a venue or location. The Broadcasting software can also stream in VBR mode to combat fluctuations in the bandwidth path to the streaming CDN. This adds another affect on images viewed pixelating and actually seeing artifacts and ghosts intermittently because of this adaptation.

I could go for hours, and obviously sell out many secrets. :)

Hope that helps.

Zach.
 
For me now, it is bandwidth and cameras. Now that viewers can enjoy the hair on players arms with processing and lighting, :smile: POV really needs more camera angles and venues with decent bandwidth. :thumbup:

But alas! There is always something to be done! :p

And... venues still have issues. Not all of them are ready for the quality of what can be produced these days. :( Wireless devices from cellular providers can be costly and many places have inadequate lighting. :frown:
 
A lot of quality issues come down to data rate. Comparing YouTube videos to live streams is unfair.

My cameras capture HD footage at 21,000 Kbps or 21 Mbps.

HD videos on YouTube are uploaded at 5000-8000 Kbps.

Most streams are 400-800 Kbps.

Its possible to get a good looking stream at 600 Kbps or so if all the other variables are taken care of. Our HD stream is 1.5 Mbps (1500 Kbps) with a 1280x720 viewer.

As mentioned previously there are a lot of variables in live streaming. The big boys like UFC and NBC still have issues sometimes. The easiest way for most streamers to improve their quality is simply more light.
 
I think ALL is a bit of a stretch. www.theactionreport.com www.insidepool.tv Ultimate 10 ball on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/ultimate10balltv?feature=g-high-rch are just some of the places where you can find some very a ton of good recorded quality matches.

Most of the lower quality streams are usually from the location bandwidth issues, some use cheap webcams for their streams. I'd say MOST of the stuff now is in HD or close to it, at least from the known streamers. I wish star billiards had a better streaming setup, they tend to have some high quality matches with several cameras but the video quality is not good.

Glad you liked the videos from Ultimate 10 Ball. I thought the lady's matches looked a tad better. They were recording using the latest technology. I record all of my videos in much higher quality than the live stream. Accu-stats has been doing it for years and so does Justin w/TAR.

The only way to enjoy the full quality of the recording is to own the digital quality on a hard drive, which I offer of everything I stream.

Here's my Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CueNaPromotions

Ray
 
Glad you liked the videos from Ultimate 10 Ball. I thought the lady's matches looked a tad better. They were recording using the latest technology. I record all of my videos in much higher quality than the live stream. Accu-stats has been doing it for years and so does Justin w/TAR.

The only way to enjoy the full quality of the recording is to own the digital quality on a hard drive, which I offer of everything I stream.

Here's my Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CueNaPromotions

Ray

Hi, I tried to find the girls matches you mentioned on the youtube channel you listed. I sorted from newest to oldest but went back 1 year and didn't see them. Is there a link? Thanks ...
 
Take the streaming and downloading out of the equation and buy some recent matches from Accu-stats. They have amazing stream quality, as do others who have posted here, and offer their DVDs for sale. If you want to watch serious HD pool matches on your large screen TV, just pop in a DVD, no internet streaming lag or issues at all.
 
Hi, I tried to find the girls matches you mentioned on the youtube channel you listed. I sorted from newest to oldest but went back 1 year and didn't see them. Is there a link? Thanks ...

We setup a channel just for the Ultimate 10 Ball Group.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ultimate10balltv/videos

Lots of good stuff. Most of the commentary was from Jay Helfert, Mark Wilson, Danny Diliberto and JoeyA. with a few cameo appearances from yours truly and a select few Top Pros including visits from Mike Dechaine, Karen Corr, CJ Wiley, Danny Harriman, Denise Reeve and more.

Ray
 
The big boys like UFC and NBC still have issues sometimes. The easiest way for most streamers to improve their quality is simply more light.

This is so true. Last weekend my buddy bought a ppv from Big Ten Network to watch the live stream of Hoosier Hysteria (formerly midnight madness) from Assembly Hall in Bloomington, IN. Holy crap the stream was horrendous. Every TAR stream could give the Big Ten Network one the 3 out and the breaks. I was just thinking that if a pool streamer was as terrible as this was people would be ripping them up and down, and refunds would be handed out almost immediately because all the streamers I support have great customer service. However, BTN doesn't give even one shit.
 
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