Can that killer instinct be learned?

catscradle

catscradle

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It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge. I don't really care about winning anymore and become content just to play or just to have it over with. However, if I wind up winning I still feel pleased and bummed if I wind up losing. It is like I do care about the results, but I don't care about the process. It is very much like just getting bored, but I never get bored playing just for fun; I can play all night long.
For instance, for several weeks in APA as a 5 I've been beating people 4-0. This week I go up to a 6, I'm up 4-0 on a 4 and wind up losing 4-3. I suppose my mistake was beating those other people 4-0 and going up, but that would be another thread. I just kind of lost interest after 3 games.
Any suggestions?
 
catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge. I don't really care about winning anymore and become content just to play or just to have it over with. However, if I wind up winning I still feel pleased and bummed if I wind up losing. It is like I do care about the results, but I don't care about the process. It is very much like just getting bored, but I never get bored playing just for fun; I can play all night long.
For instance, for several weeks in APA as a 5 I've been beating people 4-0. This week I go up to a 6, I'm up 4-0 on a 4 and wind up losing 4-3. I suppose my mistake was beating those other people 4-0 and going up, but that would be another thread. I just kind of lost interest after 3 games.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Have you tried the game of golf? Maybe you just need a different venue. Try some other activitiy and see if you get the same results
 
catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge. I don't really care about winning anymore and become content just to play or just to have it over with. However, if I wind up winning I still feel pleased and bummed if I wind up losing. It is like I do care about the results, but I don't care about the process. It is very much like just getting bored, but I never get bored playing just for fun; I can play all night long.
For instance, for several weeks in APA as a 5 I've been beating people 4-0. This week I go up to a 6, I'm up 4-0 on a 4 and wind up losing 4-3. I suppose my mistake was beating those other people 4-0 and going up, but that would be another thread. I just kind of lost interest after 3 games.
Any suggestions?
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Some people won’t like what I’m about to say, but what else is new.

It might bore me if the result of the match could be, me 4 – opponent 3, I lose. It just doesn’t show who played the best pool. At the APA 5 or 6 level your starting to play pool well. Try a non-handicap league where you know you have to shoot your best absolutely every game. Every game counts for the entire team rather than the results of a series of games.
 
Catscradle,

It could just be burnout. Take a night or longer off from the league situation and see if you miss it. I find that I usually come back ready to kick butt.

Another thing could be the lack of competition. Capt Jr nailed it. Maybe the opponent's just aren't strong enough to keep your interest. I play as a 7 in APA and TAP and there are many a night where I know that even giving certain players weight isn't going to make a difference. I'm a better player than they are and I'll still beat them. It can make it tough to stay motivated. Try a non-handicapped league or play more "open" tournaments where your game is tested every game/match.

One other thing you said caught my attention. Don't ever consider it a mistake to play your best even if you do go up. That's how the system is supposed to work. You play better, you move up, then you have to play better to keep winning. All bagging does is hurt your game.

Good Luck!
 
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catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge.
Click to expand...


If you don't have true killer instinct naturally, then you aren't going to learn it or be able to manufacture something at will. It's either there or it's not. Just go with what God gave you and make the most of it.
 
catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge. I don't really care about winning anymore and become content just to play or just to have it over with. However, if I wind up winning I still feel pleased and bummed if I wind up losing. It is like I do care about the results, but I don't care about the process. It is very much like just getting bored, but I never get bored playing just for fun; I can play all night long.
For instance, for several weeks in APA as a 5 I've been beating people 4-0. This week I go up to a 6, I'm up 4-0 on a 4 and wind up losing 4-3. I suppose my mistake was beating those other people 4-0 and going up, but that would be another thread. I just kind of lost interest after 3 games.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Nearly happened to me the other night too. I'm a 7 and went up 4-0 on a 4 (race 5-2) and then let him win a game to put us both on the hill. I got lucky on the last game though and pulled it out :)
 
I found it hard to remain in high gear in APA matches after a couple shutouts of lower ranked players. You become lulled into a false sense of superiority and become lacksadaisical about your own game. It only takes one or two errors or bad rolls for a lower ranked player to get a couple games on you if they are shooting good. Before you know it you are toast!

Better to play in local unranked tournaments where your clock could be cleaned at any time on any missed shot. Although it can be frustrating because depending on who you draw you could be going home quickly, the quality of the lessons you learn is very high compared to what you get from an APA match. Your mistakes are blatantly clear, your weaknesses in your game usually show up under the pressure and you now know what to practice before the next weeks tournament!

That being said the way I tried to stay focused in APA matches was to inform the captain that I did not want to know the skill level of my opponent or the race handicap or the score during the match. This way I could play scared from the very beginning and just tried to keep winning games until my opponent came to shake hands when HE knew the match was over. The other thing I did was to concentrate on playing for myself. Could I run more tables than I did last session, could I improve on my record, etc. That's the only advice I have for your dilemna. Jim





catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct. After playing a while I find I loss the competitive edge. I don't really care about winning anymore and become content just to play or just to have it over with. However, if I wind up winning I still feel pleased and bummed if I wind up losing. It is like I do care about the results, but I don't care about the process. It is very much like just getting bored, but I never get bored playing just for fun; I can play all night long.
For instance, for several weeks in APA as a 5 I've been beating people 4-0. This week I go up to a 6, I'm up 4-0 on a 4 and wind up losing 4-3. I suppose my mistake was beating those other people 4-0 and going up, but that would be another thread. I just kind of lost interest after 3 games.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
 
whitewolf said:
I agree with you somewhat, but my strong contension is that anger can be the seed of a killer instinct. There are quite a few players whom I have talked to who have the same problem.

Just maybe one day drivermaker you will say something that will piss the other player off, then you might find out what I am talking about. Instead of a pussy cat you may have a tiger by the tail.

One can acutally induce anger ("that guy is arrogant and I am going to crush him"). Just act real arrogant and see what kind of game you will get from your opponent. You may get his best after all LOL.
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Anger could be the seed at times but it goes beyond that. Anger has a short lifespan and can also cause one to make mistakes because they're not thinking clearly. Hatred is pretty good too. I've known many a player (some great) that didn't want to befriend or like their opponent out of concern that it would make them ease up, therefore they remained aloof and uncommunicative. I think just hating to lose is what's important. If you get to where losing doesn't bother you and you take it with a grain of salt, you won't or don't have killer instinct.

Tell me WW, do I piss you off and make you angry? :D I hope so...I wouldn't want you to give me anything but your best.
 
A "Guide To Killer Instinct" !!!

Start playing pool at a very young age.
Learn to play for money when you get good enough.
Get beat out of all your money quite often.
Get better & better because of your determination & desire.
Get good enough that you can't get a game.
Go "On The Road".
Get tired of losing your cash & hungry for a good meal because you missed a certain shot.
Figure out what it is going to take to acquire the skills to win. These are;
The Three C's - Concentration, Confidence & Consistency.
Develop these skills and succeed.

Hey, It Worked For Me !!!

TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
Start playing pool at a very young age.
Learn to play for money when you get good enough.
Get beat out of all your money quite often.
Get better & better because of your determination & desire.
Get good enough that you can't get a game.
Go "On The Road".
Get tired of losing your cash & hungry for a good meal because you missed a certain shot.
Figure out what it is going to take to acquire the skills to win. These are;
The Three C's - Concentration, Confidence & Consistency.
Develop these skills and succeed.

Hey, It Worked For Me !!!

TY & GL
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thats funny, i know an older player who uses the 3 c's as well, except his are concentration, consistency, and control.
 
whitewolf said:
Just maybe one day drivermaker you will say something that will piss the other player off...
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No way! He'd never piss someone off!!

-pigi
 
drivermaker said:
If you don't have true killer instinct naturally, then you aren't going to learn it or be able to manufacture something at will. It's either there or it's not. Just go with what God gave you and make the most of it.
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That's the nuttiest thing I've read from you, Driver. That doesn't even sound like you...is your wife posting here or something? I count on you for your thinking processes, man...don't start letting me down!

Instinct is very, very limited. About the only instinct humans have is to suckle. How far that gets one on a pool table is debateble.

To say that pool shooting is an " instinct" is to disregard the tremendous efforts of those who have worked to play very well. That's not real or nice, imho.

I know you didn't mean it this way, but when I hear people say a player is good because of " instinct," it makes me think the opinion maker is too lazy to work at it and therefore, to make himself feel better, he attributes others' skills to "instinct," instead of hard hard work.

Just read what Mark Tadd said he did to get good. It had NOTHING to do with instinct; it had everything to do with work.

Perhaps it is just a language misunderstanding (ergo, a THINKING misunderstanding, btw) by those using the word "instinct." If so, I'd recommend a better term: "consciously over-learned subconsious play." This term integrates the efforts required to play by---as the word is misused here---"instinct."

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
That's the nuttiest thing I've read from you, Driver. That doesn't even sound like you...

To say that pool shooting is an " instinct" is to disregard the tremendous efforts of those who have worked to play very well. That's not real or nice, imho.

I know you didn't mean it this way, but when I hear people say a player is good because of " instinct," it makes me think the opinion maker is too lazy to work at it and therefore, to make himself feel better, he attributes others' skills to "instinct," instead of hard hard work.

Just read what Mark Tadd said he did to get good. It had NOTHING to do with instinct; it had everything to do with work.

Perhaps it is just a language misunderstanding (ergo, a THINKING misunderstanding, btw) by those using the word "instinct." If so, I'd recommend a better term: "consciously over-learned subconsious play." This term integrates the efforts required to play by---as the word is misused here---"instinct."

Jeff Livingston
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Have you been nipping early on to many Xmas libations? I don't think neither I nor anyone else mentioned anything about "instinct" having a thing to do with actually playing the game more proficiently. I really don't know what the hell you're talking about. "Killer instinct" is discussed in many different sports by players, ex-players, writers, and announcers and it has to do with the desire of an individual to want to win so badly that nothing else matters and to bury the opponent while doing it. It isn't about "how you play the game" or "enjoying the moment", or "having fun"...it's winning at all costs and not losing sight or focus of that goal until the competition is over.
BTW, it still doesn't mean that someone with a lesser amount of "killer instinct" can't win over someone with it. It takes a great amount of skill, focus, and concentration either way.
 
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When you have the knife in...

I read Willie Mosconi's autobiography "Willies Game" a few months ago. When he started on his (adult) pro career he went on national exhibition tour, playing in small rooms against the best local players. At first he'd make a show of it, let them get some points before winning. Then he found when he came out of the exhibition tour to play in the championship tournaments he'd consistenly finished out of the top places.

Finally a promotor (Who's name escapes me right now) told him to stop easing up on the locals in the exhibition games, to concentrate solely on not just beating them but beating them flat. "When you have the knife in" he told him, "Twist it". Mosconi took the advice to heart, determining to flatten anyone of any level he played against, and spent the rest of his career doing just that. Of course there's a flip side to this, which was he could get into a terrible temper at himself for a failure to execute in anything other than a perfect fashion, even in a casual game.

However I have personally found this advice useful, especially in short-race matches. When you are 3-0 up in a race to 4 try concentrating on the pure goal of making it 4-0. Forget your opponent's strengths or lack of them. Forget hating or liking your opponent, or the other team, or your team, or their handicap or your handicap. Just focus on 4-0. Focus on every shot as a step on the ladder up to 4-0.

HTH, YMMV.
 
I'll go with Drivermaker and OHB.

When I was young and boxing was popular the old saying then was in order to be good at boxing you had to be hungry. You did what you had to to win because every match came down to life and death (So to speak). Eat or go hungry.

Pissing off or making an opponent angry (mad) just makes it easier for you to win. Isn't it great when they start slamming in the balls and looking at you everytime they make one? Until they miss. LOL

Killer instinct: When you see the opening, you grab it and drive him into the ground. Knowing that if you don't do it to him first he surely will do it to you.

I surely believe it can be a learned trait, as I am working on it, but I am too soft hearted, and too old to change, and really not all that hungry. But for best results you have to be hungry and start young like OHB. And never give a sucker an even break.

And when you are playing try to ignore your opponent and just concentrate on the table. I seem to have the best results that way. Otherwise I feel sorry for him and manage to self destruct.

But APA is mostly for fun anyway. Enter local tournaments and play with the local big dogs.

Of course there is also the point that when given the opportunity to put the game away you just miss the shot because you didn't practice it enough. When that happens make sure you practice it 100 times or until you know you will never miss it again. You do need skill to go along with "Killer Instinct".

Jake
 
drivermaker said:
If you don't have true killer instinct naturally, then you aren't going to learn it or be able to manufacture something at will. It's either there or it's not. Just go with what God gave you and make the most of it.
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It really depends on the situation though. As people have said in this thread, maybe the whole APA handicapped crappy players thing is just boring him. I myself dont tend to really try all that much in league play, BCA masters league in Calgary and I really dont get interested in the week to week regular season and the killer instinct just aint there. I may get 10-20 ERO's in 100-120 games. On the other hand playing in the Alberta 8-ball chamionships I got 5 ERO's against one guy, 4 against the next, and 6 against the next. Two of those matches were 7-0 and 7-1, the killer instinct was there.

It happens to me when I am playing for fun too, just hitting balls for no money against a friend or even someone I dont know, I simply dont care if I win, it means nothing if the guy beats me. Of course put some money on the match and I tend to suddenly shoot alot better and now care about winning. It is not a hustle, it is simply that I need some sort of motivation, and the more on the line and the more I want to win the more of my killer instinct will come out and the better I will shoot.

Can it be learned? I would say yes, but it takes putting yourself into situations where you really want to win, not for the win but for the cash or the trip you are trying to win or the tournament you are trying to place high in. If the win itself is not enough to get the killer instinct then you need to get the fire going via the reward, the cash, the trip, whatever. Once you start putting the money up and losing alot even the practice games where you used to not care about winning become a little more important as that is where you now own people in order to build your confidence and prove to yourself that you are alot better then the other person. While I tend to play better for the cash and get more killer instinct going when something is on the line I have been getting more and more fire even in practice now because I dont want to chop up against a guy and let him see weakness, I want to beat the guy bad and make him fear me so when he plays me in a tournament he shakes like a leaf and knows if he misses he loses. Intimidation is VERY important in pool, it is a large part of what keeps the top players at the top.
 
From what I've been told, the killer instinct in pool is given to you as you develop alot of heart. You get heart from not being afraid to play anyone, even if you get busted. Do that long enough and you're gonna get the killer instinct because you're sick of these people walking out with your money.
 
AuntyDan said:
Finally a promotor (Who's name escapes me right now) told him to stop easing up on the locals in the exhibition games, to concentrate solely on not just beating them but beating them flat. "When you have the knife in" he told him, "Twist it". Mosconi took the advice to heart, determining to flatten anyone of any level he played against, and spent the rest of his career doing just that.
Click to expand...

It's quite possible you are referring to Charlie Ursitti, a promoter than went on to become Willie's business manager. Charlie was the brain behind the Fats vs Mosconi Challenge on ABC Wide World of Sports in the mid 1970's.
 
catscradle said:
It seems like I just don't have that killer instinct...Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I think the killer instinct can be learned, although I must admit that I've heard World one-pocket champion John Ervolino make the exact same point as OldHasBeen --- that experiencing desperation is key to developing the greatest killer instinct.

Still, I think keeping company with those having a killer instinct helps the cause. Surely, Irving Crane helped Mike Sigel to develop a killer instinct and Jeremy Jones helped Gabe Owen in the same way. Pete Fusco helped make Karen Corr tough as nails.

Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Fong Pang Chao and Jeanette Lee define killer instinct to me. When these players have you down, they try to rip you apart.
 
drivermaker said:
Have you been nipping early on to many Xmas libations? I don't think neither I nor anyone else mentioned anything about "instinct" having a thing to do with actually playing the game more proficiently. I really don't know what the hell you're talking about. "Killer instinct" is discussed in many different sports by players, ex-players, writers, and announcers and it has to do with the desire of an individual to want to win so badly that nothing else matters and to bury the opponent while doing it. It isn't about "how you play the game" or "enjoying the moment", or "having fun"...it's winning at all costs and not losing sight or focus of that goal until the competition is over.
BTW, it still doesn't mean that someone with a lesser amount of "killer instinct" can't win over someone with it. It takes a great amount of skill, focus, and concentration either way.
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You said killer instinct comes naturally and cannot be learned....I say it does not come naturally and it must be learned....therefore the term "instinct" is invalid and, for thinking players such as yourself, requires a new one.

Jeff, sober as a judge, Livingston
 
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