Captain v. Coach for Team USA (Mosconi Cup)

JAM

JAM

I am the storm
Silver Member
The term "coach" has been discussed in reference to Team USA, but it is really a captain position and not a coach.

What are the functions of this position? Is the primary function to be a trainer, or is the primary function to be the selecting party for the upcoming matches?

There are some entities who have stated they would devote resources as well as time to this endeavor of captain/coach, e.g., Mark Griffin, Jay Helfert, just to name a few.

Would a retired player or Hall of Famer be a better choice, someone who been out there in the heat of the battle, so to speak, such as Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, John Schmidt? And Keith McCready would be upset with me if I did not mention his name, so there. :grin-square:

Would a current player be a good choice such as, say, Shannon Daulton, Jeremy Jones, Tony Robles, or Tommy Kennedy?

I'm still wondering if a European pool personality is eligible to work with Team USA as its captain. What are the rules about the captain being an American? I do not know of any. Names that come to mind are Ralph Eckert and Alex Lely.

I bring up this thread as merely food for thought. What is the role of this position? Since the players change each and every year, it is darn near impossible to prepare if you only get a few weeks to do so. Nobody knows who the team is going to be until that time, basically.

This position takes a combination of skills, and who has all of the above-referenced traits is what is needed.

This topic will get stale soon. We've got a whole year to figure it out, I guess, but it would be nice to get it right. I don't think anyone can blame the failure of Team USA on its captain. Mark Wilson did everything humanly possible to create a good team within the time allotted to him, which was 3 years.

Is the selection criteria by Matchroom flawed for Team USA selection? They seem to change it each and every year to accommodate Team USA since we have such a flawed professional pool system here in the States.

That said, maybe the emphasis needs to be put on the selection criteria Matchroom uses for Team USA rather than the captain. Since most Americans cannot afford to attend overseas events, it's hard for some to accumulate points due to cost. Some Team Europe members are sponsored, which helps. Not so much with American players. After all, we have no governing body of professional pool anymore. The BCA, for all intents and purposes, is a dead fish in the water.

In sum, it may be the member selection criteria that needs to be examined.
 
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I'm beginning to think the best possible captain for our group is "financial incentive."

Let them split the captain's cut and see how that turns-out.

Matchroom can hire somebody to wear a $100 bill costume and sit in the stands with the players.
 
Mosconi

If I had any input, My suggestions would be:

Players would get a base pay (say $2k) - balance paid by performance.
Captain would take most of his pay and use as bonus compensation to the players as incentives.
Have several team building experiences during the year, as possible players are being determined.
Bring the players to vegas a week prior to Mosconi cup for bonding, to get to practice double chemistry, and similar.
Too provide 3 hours (or so) breaking practice per player per day
Get a Rasson table available while in vegas-to adjust to nuances of table
Provide a facility that would subject the players to uncomfortable and noisy environment.


All of these would help the players. We have the technical ability to win. It's mostly focus, passion, and discipline. The players know what they lack - the coach needs to identify and concentrate on these areas.

I've got more thoughts on this. I would also get a LOT of loud support for USA.

Mark griffin
 
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Mark Griffin said:
If I had any input, My suggestions would be:

Players would get a base pay (say $2k) - balance paid by performance.
Captain would take most of his pay and use as bonus compensation to the players as incentives.
Have several team building experiences during the year, as possible players are being determined.
Bring the players to vegas a week prior to Mosconi cup for bonding, to get to practice double chemistry, and similar.
Too provide 3 hours (or so) breaking practice per player per day
Get a Rasson table available while in vegas-to adjust to nuances of table
Provide a facility that would subject the players to uncomfortable and noisy environment.


All of these would help the players. We have the technical ability to win. It's mostly focus, passion, and discipline. The players know what they lack - the coach needs to identify and concentrate on these areas.

I've got more thoughts on this. I would also get a LOT of loud support for USA.

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

Is team Europe doing any of this?
 
Cutting the players pay will make sure we don't get the very top 5 players. Not many top players are going to jump through rings for 2k and MAYBE more. Johnnyt
 
Mark Griffin said:
If I had any input, My suggestions would be:

Players would get a base pay (say $2k) - balance paid by performance.
Captain would take most of his pay and use as bonus compensation to the players as incentives.
Have several team building experiences during the year, as possible players are being determined.
Bring the players to vegas a week prior to Mosconi cup for bonding, to get to practice double chemistry, and similar.
Too provide 3 hours (or so) breaking practice per player per day
Get a Rasson table available while in vegas-to adjust to nuances of table
Provide a facility that would subject the players to uncomfortable and noisy environment.


All of these would help the players. We have the technical ability to win. It's mostly focus, passion, and discipline. The players know what they lack - the coach needs to identify and concentrate on these areas.

I've got more thoughts on this. I would also get a LOT of loud support for USA.

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

What about a "Make it Happen" event or two where 10 US players get voted onto two teams and play the full version of the format?
 
Mosconi cup

I don't see what you are saying. In all honesty, I don't know what they do. The two teams have different components. This was my opinion. Not saying to copy anyone - just do better preparation for what you can control.

Sorry if you disagree - but what's new?

Have a Merry Christmas



BeiberLvr said:
Is team Europe doing any of this?
Click to expand...
 
Mosconi cup

Johnnyt
You misunderstood. No one is cutting the money, it's just being allocated differently.

My suggestion was to pay each player for Mosconi point won (or games won). Each player plays a singles match. And there are doubles, and team events.

Currently Mosconi pays $10K per player (double to the winning team). Give each player $2,000 guaranteed. The remaining $8,000 will obviously be paid out to the players - BUT it would be disbursed according to their performance. I haven't done the math because there are a lot if variables but it seems American players are more motivated by money. So pro-rate by performance.

The total money will be the same. The player that wins his single and doubles would get more than a player that only won singles. Give incentives.

Hope this helps explain. It all comes down to motivation.

Mark griffin

Johnnyt said:
Cutting the players pay will make sure we don't get the very top 5 players. Not many top players are going to jump through rings for 2k and MAYBE more. Johnnyt
Click to expand...
 
if you alter the way you distribute the money, isn't there a chance that players are hoping their team mates don't do as well as them cuz it means more money......imo not good for team spirit
 
Team work and bonding. Mr. Griffin makes a very good point, except that bonding and team work come over a season and I don't think it can be achieved over the course of a week.

It happens over a season in most sports. I'd hope the Mosconi Team could be picked by May or June at the latest and it would be good if they already had a relationship among them that wasn't mostly adversarial.

The Mosconi Cup team for the last several years has always been the guys that have the highest point total throughout the Mosconi qualifying events in the calendar year.

That's a valid way to go about this, but not always the best way. Team work and the responsibility of being on a team has several elements that I think are overlooked in the MC team selection.

I think you really want the 5 guys that play best together, that may or may not include the 5 players with the highest point total.
If the team is picked months ahead of time they get a chance to spend some time together, play together, develop some as a team, and to build a solid team relationship, and to play some Mosconi Type events and build some National hype, some excitement for the event and the team.

Let the public know there is an American team to support so Euro ticket sales are held to a minimum.

What they've been doing lately hasn't been working. I've been on several teams, you aren't a team until you become one. Throwing the same shirt on 5 guys and calling them a team isn't usually the way it works.

I think it all starts with the right "coach" that isn't just a face for the team, it should be someone that can be an actual coach.
So the players need to be receptive and open to instruction and suggestion. Even the very best player can benefit from a different perspective and good idea or two.
 
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I think Johnny Archer would make an awesome coach , with Johnny you have someone who knows the pressure of playing in the mosconi cup. Also still has that competitive drive to rally a team together . Plus if it was up to me I would make the game 10 ball on a 10 foot table, 9 balls ok good for TV but shit too many chances to just hit a bunch of balls and make a 9. Also allow Canadian players to participate , Europe gets to choose from England and all of Europe, why not make it north America vs Europe .
 
Mark Griffin said:
I don't see what you are saying. In all honesty, I don't know what they do. The two teams have different components. This was my opinion. Not saying to copy anyone - just do better preparation for what you can control.

Sorry if you disagree - but what's new?

Have a Merry Christmas
Click to expand...

Our fundamentals are lacking in comparison and we make far too many unforced errors.

We don't need gimmicks to fix those issues.


Merry Christmas to you as well.
 
Mosconi cup

You are right, there is a fear of hoping their teammate fails-----but there are ways to incentivize around that. It is important the team all pulls together.

Reward excellence!!!!!!

Mark Griffin


GB Basher said:
if you alter the way you distribute the money, isn't there a chance that players are hoping their team mates don't do as well as them cuz it means more money......imo not good for team spirit
Click to expand...
 
Mosconi cup

We all know bonding takes awhile. And knowing the teammates in advance would be nice BUT the selection process is what it is.

Just like the suggestions of playing 10-ball and longer races-----that is not an option.
So we gotta do the best we can do. Our players have the skills to win. The area that can get the biggest improvements over the shortest time is serious breaking practice - every day for each player. Bonding of the players as they become 'in the running' - and a lot after selection. Bonding means spending 3-7 days together on several occasions. Going everywhere as a team. Eating together, movies together, staying in one location in fairly close quarters.

I see a single house-on staff cook who knows nutrition. Access to a gym - not heavy body building but treadmills and stuff---just a good lifestyle. Old fashioned cheering your teammate where it means something.

It's a bonding experience. Get some motivational speakers and get everyone really excited about it. Could be fun!!!

Mark griffin

Celophanewrap said:
Team work and bonding. Mr. Griffin makes a very good point, except that bonding and team work come over a season and I don't think it can be achieved over the course of a week.

It happens over a season in most sports. I'd hope the Mosconi Team could be picked by May or June at the latest and it would be good if they already had a relationship among them that wasn't mostly adversarial.

The Mosconi Cup team for the last several years has always been the guys that have the highest point total throughout the Mosconi qualifying events in the calendar year.

That's a valid way to go about this, but not always the best way. Team work and the responsibility of being on a team has several elements that I think are overlooked in the MC team selection.

I think you really want the 5 guys that play best together, that may or may not include the 5 players with the highest point total.
If the team is picked months ahead of time they get a chance to spend some time together, play together, develop some as a team, and to build a solid team relationship, and to play some Mosconi Type events and build some National hype, some excitement for the event and the team.

Let the public know there is an American team to support so Euro ticket sales are held to a minimum.

What they've been doing lately hasn't been working. I've been on several teams, you aren't a team until you become one. Throwing the same shirt on 5 guys and calling them a team isn't usually the way it works.

I think it all starts with the right "coach" that isn't just a face for the team, it should be someone that can be an actual coach.
So the players need to be receptive and open to instruction and suggestion. Even the very best player can benefit from a different perspective and good idea or two.
Click to expand...
 
HI Mark - In my opinion, the coach and the short-term training can only do so much. The US needs to improve its pool infrastructure - competitive tournaments and leagues to feed them. You have done more for top-notch leagues than anyone else. Thanks for doing the Jay Swanson, and please consider having more pro events on standard-size tables.
 
Mosconi cup

BRussell,
I totally agree the US needs better structure in it pool programs. But that's outside the scope of a MC coach.

CSI is primarily an amateur association. We do have lots of discussions on how to do mor 9' events.

Now that I have a room in Vegas (www.griffslv.com) we can do some events. We've got 8 of the 9' diamonds available. We'll be doing the US OPEN ONE POCKET there. Hopefully maybe some others.

Appreciate your response.

Mark Griffin

BRussell said:
HI Mark - In my opinion, the coach and the short-term training can only do so much. The US needs to improve its pool infrastructure - competitive tournaments and leagues to feed them. You have done more for top-notch leagues than anyone else. Thanks for doing the Jay Swanson, and please consider having more pro events on standard-size tables.
Click to expand...
 
Mark Griffin said:
Johnnyt
You misunderstood. No one is cutting the money, it's just being allocated differently.

My suggestion was to pay each player for Mosconi point won (or games won). Each player plays a singles match. And there are doubles, and team events.

Currently Mosconi pays $10K per player (double to the winning team). Give each player $2,000 guaranteed. The remaining $8,000 will obviously be paid out to the players - BUT it would be disbursed according to their performance. I haven't done the math because there are a lot if variables but it seems American players are more motivated by money. So pro-rate by performance.

The total money will be the same. The player that wins his single and doubles would get more than a player that only won singles. Give incentives.

Hope this helps explain. It all comes down to motivation.

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

I like what Justin and I were talking about in the other thread. The payout will be even among the same team players with winners getting $27,500 each and loses getting $2500 each. That should be a great incentive to produce and it would foster a team spirit - is known or swim together !
 
Mark Griffin said:
If I had any input, My suggestions would be:

Players would get a base pay (say $2k) - balance paid by performance.
Captain would take most of his pay and use as bonus compensation to the players as incentives.
Have several team building experiences during the year, as possible players are being determined.
Bring the players to vegas a week prior to Mosconi cup for bonding, to get to practice double chemistry, and similar.
Too provide 3 hours (or so) breaking practice per player per day
Get a Rasson table available while in vegas-to adjust to nuances of table
Provide a facility that would subject the players to uncomfortable and noisy environment.


All of these would help the players. We have the technical ability to win. It's mostly focus, passion, and discipline. The players know what they lack - the coach needs to identify and concentrate on these areas.

I've got more thoughts on this. I would also get a LOT of loud support for USA.

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

The elephant in the room is technical ability. You do not have the technical ability to win. Things will not change until you do, whoever the coach.

Coaches in general need to be liked and respected, but it is better to be feared than respected if you cannot be both.
 
Mark Griffin said:
If I had any input, My suggestions would be:

Players would get a base pay (say $2k) - balance paid by performance.
Captain would take most of his pay and use as bonus compensation to the players as incentives.
Have several team building experiences during the year, as possible players are being determined.
Bring the players to vegas a week prior to Mosconi cup for bonding, to get to practice double chemistry, and similar.
Too provide 3 hours (or so) breaking practice per player per day
Get a Rasson table available while in vegas-to adjust to nuances of table
Provide a facility that would subject the players to uncomfortable and noisy environment.


All of these would help the players. We have the technical ability to win. It's mostly focus, passion, and discipline. The players know what they lack - the coach needs to identify and concentrate on these areas.

I've got more thoughts on this. I would also get a LOT of loud support for USA.

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan. I like it. :)
 
BmoreMoney said:
I like what Justin and I were talking about in the other thread. The payout will be even among the same team players with winners getting $27,500 each and loses getting $2500 each. That should be a great incentive to produce and it would foster a team spirit - is known or swim together !
Click to expand...

Justin who, and which thread? We have a lot of members named Justin. :-p I can't find the thread. Post a link. ;)
 
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