Carbide sanding mandrels

C

carguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At long last, these are the photos of the sanding mandrels I received from Bassel.

First, notice that these mandrels are not tapered. Bassel had said from the beginning they would be tapered...that's what made them desirable and set them apart from some others. In a post in another thread, Bassel lied to another member and me about whether they were to be tapered or not in the first place (this, months after we ordered). Bassel said no, but guess what he currently has for sale? Tapered mandrels that did not turn out right! Where did THEY come from?

Next, please notice the huge chip in one face and several small chips in the other. How could someone send these out?

Also, in the side view, hard to see but visible, the "facets", the small flats which make up the outside diameter. You know, where we sand. This is supposed to be round. That's why we use sanding mandrels. That's the whole point.
Also visible in that view, the chip.

Less important but perhaps pertinent and telling none the less is the fact that the mandrels were filthy dirty and even rusty when I received them. Not signs of caring craftsmanship.

I am less upset about the quality (terrible, but he has said he would refund me) than the lack of honesty.

I was a supporter of Bassel's from the start. You know, the new guy, the underdog. He seemed like a winner. I liked his lathe designs and I liked his attitude and told him so; I complimented him for his initiative every step of the way and wished him well.

But sending out known-bad items I think is beyond the pale. Ya just cant do that.

I have returned these mandrels to Bassel for a refund and he has received them.
 

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carguy said:
At long last, these are the photos of the sanding mandrels I received from Bassel.

First, notice that these mandrels are not tapered. Bassel had said from the beginning they would be tapered...that's what made them desirable and set them apart from some others. In a post in another thread, Bassel lied to another member and me about whether they were to be tapered or not in the first place (this, months after we ordered). Bassel said no, but guess what he currently has for sale? Tapered mandrels that did not turn out right! Where did THEY come from?

Next, please notice the huge chip in one face and several small chips in the other. How could someone send these out?

Also, in the side view, hard to see but visible, the "facets", the small flats which make up the outside diameter. You know, where we sand. This is supposed to be round. That's why we use sanding mandrels. That's the whole point.
Also visible in that view, the chip.

Less important but perhaps pertinent and telling none the less is the fact that the mandrels were filthy dirty and even rusty when I received them. Not signs of caring craftsmanship.

I am less upset about the quality (terrible, but he has said he would refund me) than the lack of honesty.

I was a supporter of Bassel's from the start. You know, the new guy, the underdog. He seemed like a winner. I liked his lathe designs and I liked his attitude and told him so; I complimented him for his initiative every step of the way and wished him well.

But sending out known-bad items I think is beyond the pale. Ya just cant do that.

I have returned these mandrels to Bassel for a refund and he has received them.
Click to expand...

Wow!!

Character is what you do when no one is looking. Let's see what happens on an open forum.

Leopards spots don't usually change. Good luck getting the money back.

You know what you getting and the customer support when you deal with Chris Hightower.

Rick
 
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wow i expected better.

if those were a cue uhg........

i think bassel should stick with lathes for a while not bagging on him or anything but these are a example of using the buyer as the test subject instead of your own pocket book.

hopefully he gets better in the future, seems like he really wants to make a diffrence.

hope you get your money back and spend a little extra with one of the guys on here known to do a really good job on these
 
carguy said:
At long last, these are the photos of the sanding mandrels I received from Bassel.

First, notice that these mandrels are not tapered. Bassel had said from the beginning they would be tapered...that's what made them desirable and set them apart from some others. In a post in another thread, Bassel lied to another member and me about whether they were to be tapered or not in the first place (this, months after we ordered). Bassel said no, but guess what he currently has for sale? Tapered mandrels that did not turn out right! Where did THEY come from?

Next, please notice the huge chip in one face and several small chips in the other. How could someone send these out?

Also, in the side view, hard to see but visible, the "facets", the small flats which make up the outside diameter. You know, where we sand. This is supposed to be round. That's why we use sanding mandrels. That's the whole point.
Also visible in that view, the chip.

Less important but perhaps pertinent and telling none the less is the fact that the mandrels were filthy dirty and even rusty when I received them. Not signs of caring craftsmanship.

I am less upset about the quality (terrible, but he has said he would refund me) than the lack of honesty.

I was a supporter of Bassel's from the start. You know, the new guy, the underdog. He seemed like a winner. I liked his lathe designs and I liked his attitude and told him so; I complimented him for his initiative every step of the way and wished him well.

But sending out known-bad items I think is beyond the pale. Ya just cant do that.

I have returned these mandrels to Bassel for a refund and he has received them.
Click to expand...
Robin
Out of respect to other fellow AZrs I retracted my post, and your money is on it's way.
Just for the record I would have refunded your money regardless.
 
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customcuelathe said:
Robin
Now that I got my set back yesterday, and as soon as I receive you paypal address, I will refund your money. Oh and one more thing, when I shipped your set, there was no chip on the carbide face, I would have never shipped a set with a chip on the face like that. I will not take place in you pathetic parade. For you to go as far as chipping the carbide just to make me look bad, is very very sad, and FYI, I announced to everyone that the new batch was not going to be tapered, you should go back and read my thread.
I just amazed that a grown up man like you don't have anything better to do with his time.
Last thing, I don't force anyone to buy my parts.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure accusing Robyn of being a liar and saboteur is a step in the right direction.
 
This is one of the funniest posts I have ever read on AZ.

I chipped them to make you look bad???
Someone else previously complained of chips also. Don't you think anyone remembers that?
Did they chip theirs also to make you look bad, or are you full of something smelly.

Did I re-grind the OD to make you look bad too?
You sir, are a lier.

Your lame excuses make you look ridiculous; why not just suck it up and do the right thing?

I think you got in over your head with this and they turned out poorly and you did not respond in an honorable manner. I think everyone saw it all unfold.

You don't force anyone to buy anything from you? Is that really what you offer in defense? That excuses sending out bad products?

Don't forget, you already admitted that you saw they were not right before you sent them. Remember that?

What a tangled web we weave......

Unbelievable.
Robin Snyder
 
Thanks

To Rick, Trent and others who have spoken up in support. THANK YOU!

See, I already have 4 sets of carbide mandrels which I got from Tom Migliori years ago. The quality is fantastic!

As I've said before, I just wanted to try tapered ones! < My only goal!!

All the feedback I've heard says John Rocker is the man for tapered mandrels, but that mad scientist Neil has a plan.....I'm such a sucker for novel engineering! This and a sick sick sick insatiable curiosity.

Neil baby, whip it on me!

Robin Snyder
 
That might be the worse looking product I have seen sold from this particular forum.

Kelly
 
Mandrels

Robin,
It was me that said in a previous post that my mandrels had a chip in the face. It looked just like the pic you posted here. It went right through the outer edge just like yours. Yours weren't by chance 3/8x11 @ .850 were they? Anyway I sent them back to Bassel and supposedly he had them fixed. They should be in the mail coming back to me now. I will let you know how they come out.
Marc
carguy said:
This is one of the funniest posts I have ever read on AZ.

I chipped them to make you look bad???
Someone else previously complained of chips also. Don't you think anyone remembers that?
Did they chip theirs also to make you look bad, or are you full of something smelly.

Did I re-grind the OD to make you look bad too?
You sir, are a lier.

Your lame excuses make you look ridiculous; why not just suck it up and do the right thing?

I think you got in over your head with this and they turned out poorly and you did not respond in an honorable manner. I think everyone saw it all unfold.

You don't force anyone to buy anything from you? Is that really what you offer in defense? That excuses sending out bad products?

Don't forget, you already admitted that you saw they were not right before you sent them. Remember that?

What a tangled web we weave......

Unbelievable.
Robin Snyder
Click to expand...
 
I've watched for quite awhile on a few threads recently concerning Bassel and his products, and his people skills, and I have to say, "not impressed". I have to agree with Kelly that these mandrels pictured have to be the worst product I have ever seen here. Rust on the shaft???? And what is the crap between the carbide and the steel? Everyone else's is pressed on, By a QUALIFIED machinist, no need for brazing, no out of round, no flat spots, no lips, or poorly inserted pins, etc. I have seen carbide mandrels before and never seen anything like these. They look sloppy and of poor quality.
Yes I know that I have no dog in this hunt, but when someone posts such crap as he, as a salesperson, on a public forum, EVERYONE has a voice. We are ALL potential customers, until the seller convinces us not to buy from them. IMO, he should be reported to his state's better business bureau so that others may be aware. When charging as much as he did for these, he implies they were as good as the other's on the market, but at a better price. Maybe he should have bought a set from Rocket and Tom before selling these pieces of sh$t so he would know what he was competing with.
If I spend $$$$ for this kind of tool, it damn sure better be correct when I get it, no sending it back multipule times and hope the provider finally gets it right, and the LAST thing he should do is to blame the customer for expecting a quality product right out of the box. That's why we pay what we do for these items. They should not be blamed for not realizing that the provider (Bassel) is uncapable of providing that quality product that he advertises.
He has even stated, after being called out, that he knew the items were not up to snuff, but he sent them anyways, and then tries to justify it, and then blame the customer of trying to make him look bad. Personally, I think Bassel has done a good enough job of that all on his own. Items like this should not have to be returned/refunded. Build it right the first time, then all goes well.
It's too bad Marc...aka, stratshutr, didn't take a picture of his set before returning them, so we could see if, in fact, Bassel may have taken Marc's bad ones and then just sent them to Robin.........
Dave
 
I'm kinda the same way,,,,,,and I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I'm not a cue maker. I do however have one of this guys lathes, and I do my own basic work, so I know something of what you guys do, as well as how Chris Hightowers book says to do it. The lathe is "ok" for doing basic cue repair, but I just could not imagine trying to actually build a cue with it. The one I have is just pieced together, especially the lower framework, with what looks to be leftover pieces of various extrusions. Another thing, I am a machinist by trade, for almost 38 years and counting, and I've made parts and tooling for everything from lawnmowers, heavy equipment, high speed packaging machinery, neutron microscopes, military aircraft, submarines, and more stuff I can't even remember anymore and I've never seen anyone try to market a product with this low level of craftsmanship. I don't know this guy Bassel, or his background, but I'm pretty sure it's not machining or engineering!
 
Folks, you can't skimp on machinery & tools. Just like the shafts recently, when a deal seems too good to be true, it isn't true. If you need a desk top machine, buy it from the companies that have a solid reputation & history of providing what it is you want. If you are going to try saving money buying from an unproven source, at least do some research first & see if there's any negatives that you should be aware of BEFORE ordering. Saving a few bucks up front will inevitably cost you much more in the long run. Get the good stuff right away & don't worry about it. 9 out 10 businesses fail in the first year. Why would billiard related businesses be any different?

Fact is that if a guy supplied machines that were actually better than any of the others, at lower cost, and offered better support, then all the other machines would be dropping in price or going out of business. If somebody offered carbide mandrels of superior quality & low price, then all carbide mandrels would drop in price or else go out of business. It's not rocket science. Businesses come in offering lower prices for one of two reasons. First is that they have a superior & competitive product and need to establish themselves in the industry and THEN can raise price to competitive levels. Or they have inferior products & know it and are targeting cheap skates as their market, hoping to compete with the quality businesses by picking up the folks who are too cheap to pay for the good stuff. That's pretty much it. High quality & low price doesn't fit. Never has, never will. Cutting cost means cutting quality somewhere. Anybody building cues should know that because you all have a choice to use the best materials (expensive) or the cheap stuff, to use time consuming & exacting machining practices (time expensive) or else you toss things together the easiest you can. And naturally, those of you who use cheap stuff & poor machining practices will put some type of spin on why your product is superior, while the guy who is actually producing the true quality product doesn't say a word because the product speaks for itself. So this logic isn't anything nobody can grasp or should be surprised about. What kind of person are you? Do you invest in good stuff or do you cheap out on junk with intentions of spinning it as something special? Point is that Bassel is correct. He doesn't force anybody top buy his products. He sells them cheap & the cheap skates come to buy it. So who is at fault? You get what you pay for.

Wasn't long ago I was chiming in to defend a buyer that was duped into a machine. Apparently it was claimed that the machine was capable of doing much more than it actually was. Worse yet, the guy couldn't get acceptable support. So he brought his frustrations public to the forums & was made to look like an idiot, called a liar, etc. I thought it was pretty foul that a guy would use this forum to advertise his products, screw somebody, then turn it around on them to make them look like the idiot when it didn't work out. So I spoke up & holy crap I caught three shades of hell, was called a liar, and even accused of being on somebody's side in ruining the new machine dealer. Seriously it was like that. So I deleted my posts in that thread, after much controversy & name calling, tons of PM's & even phone calls. Now here it is again, dejavu. Who's the liar now?
 
cut-rate stuff

Boy oh boy Eric, ain't it the truth.

As I've said before, my plan with these mandrels was never to save money, that had nothing to do with it; it was to give the new guy a shot.

This whole thing is a disaster for Bassel but really not that big a deal and mainly just inconvenient for me because I'll just go and get them from John Rocker who I knew all along makes wonderful mandrels, and custom tapered ones at that, which was my only reason for buying them...the taper!!!, which Bassel unilaterally decided had no importance.

I have mandrels coming out my ears!!! which I got from Tom Migliori years ago. (Am I constantly misspelling Tom's last name?) They are literally like new. Hundreds of years from from now some cuemaker will be sanding his finish with these things unless it all goes Neil's way and they all use metal cues. :)

I've been purchasing tools for REALLY a long time and I can't say I ever went for a "bargain". I learned long ago that top quality doesn't cost, it pays.

My boxes of Snap Ons and Stahlwilles (German) are as good now as they were 50 years ago when I started collecting them and they're guaranteed forever. No questions. Forever.
They cost me a lot, but they made me some money too, and they are a pleasure to use. When you have them in your hands all day, every day for decades, you come to appreciate them.

Off-topic for a second...I notice the design of Snap-On ratchets, a design award winning classic, has been knocked off by everyone and their cousin. Know what? Those buyers have no clue what they're missing. None.

I'm not really a tool freak, I just use 'em to do the job I'm doing. I don't have many I don't use. It's just a practical matter. It's not love, it's need.

Also, I try to be thrifty, and buying cheap crap is the opposite of that, I mean, I'm not rich, so I try to play a cool hand with my money, which means making good decisions and buying good stuff that will hold up.

Same thing goes with these mandrels. I knew it was a crap shoot (pardon the awful pun) from the get-go but I was rooting for Bassel all the way. I mean, give the guy a shot and see what he can do, right? The quality was not really in the ballpark but then the guy LIED ABOUT IT AND SLANDERED ME !!! which really pisses me right off.

That he took that one offending post down was a matter of survival for him because the time has not yet come that I will allow someone to make statements like that about me on a public forum like this and just let it pass. If he wants to rumble, I'm his boy, but this does not seem the case, an excellent decision on his part.
I'm hardly a pushy guy,.. lol, however I defend myself "vigorously" when necessary.

Incidently, I've received a message that Bassel has refunded me for these mandrels, for which I thank him.

Robin Snyder

PS- It occurs to me that Bassel caught many people's eye just by vigorously marketing his products on this forum. I don't think people were shopping price, it was just that all of a sudden, here's this guy offering these things right here, right now, come and get it, hot off the press, the latest and the greatest, get it here now!!!
Although many people, including me, have known of other sources for mandrels for years, many did not. In any case they were not as vigorously marketed as Bassel's and I think he just caught people's eye.
I think Bassel attracted as many people as he did just by offering it for sale. I'm not sure people were necessarily looking for a bargain. It was certainly the last thing on my mind.
 
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carguy said:
Boy oh boy Eric, ain't it the truth.

As I've said before, my plan with these mandrels was never to save money, that had nothing to do with it; it was to give the new guy a shot.

This whole thing is a disaster for Bassel but really not that big a deal and mainly just inconvenient for me because I'll just go and get them from John Rocker who I knew all along makes wonderful mandrels, and custom tapered ones at that, which was my only reason for buying them...the taper!!!, which Bassel unilaterally decided had no importance.

I have mandrels coming out my ears!!! which I got from Tom Migliori years ago. (Am I constantly misspelling Tom's last name?) They are literally like new. Hundreds of years from from now some cuemaker will be sanding his finish with these things unless it all goes Neil's way and they all use metal cues. :)

I've been purchasing tools for REALLY a long time and I can't say I ever went for a "bargain". I learned long ago that top quality doesn't cost, it pays.

My boxes of Snap Ons and Stahlwilles (German) are as good now as they were 50 years ago when I started collecting them and they're guaranteed forever. No questions. Forever.
They cost me a lot, but they made me some money too, and they are a pleasure to use. When you have them in your hands all day, every day for decades, you come to appreciate them.

Off-topic for a second...I notice the design of Snap-On ratchets, a design award winning classic, has been knocked off by everyone and their cousin. Know what? Those buyers have no clue what they're missing. None.

I'm not really a tool freak, I just use 'em to do the job I'm doing. I don't have many I don't use. It's just a practical matter. It's not love, it's need.

Also, I try to be thrifty, and buying cheap crap is the opposite of that, I mean, I'm not rich, so I try to play a cool hand with my money, which means making good decisions and buying good stuff that will hold up.

Same thing goes with these mandrels. I knew it was a crap shoot (pardon the awful pun) from the get-go but I was rooting for Bassel all the way. I mean, give the guy a shot and see what he can do, right? The quality was not really in the ballpark but then the guy LIED ABOUT IT AND SLANDERED ME !!! which really pisses me right off.

That he took that one offending post down was a matter of survival for him because the time has not yet come that I will allow someone to make statements like that about me on a public forum like this and just let it pass. If he wants to rumble, I'm his boy, but this does not seem the case, an excellent decision on his part.
I'm hardly a pushy guy,.. lol, however I defend myself "vigorously" when necessary.

Incidently, I've received a message that Bassel has refunded me for these mandrels, for which I thank him.

Robin Snyder

PS- It occurs to me that Bassel caught many people's eye just by vigorously marketing his products on this forum. I don't think people were shopping price, it was just that all of a sudden, here's this guy offering these things right here, right now, come and get it, hot off the press, the latest and the greatest, get it here now!!!
Although many people, including me, have known of other sources for mandrels for years, many did not. In any case they were not as vigorously marketed as Bassel's and I think he just caught people's eye.
I think Bassel attracted as many people as he did just by offering it for sale. I'm not sure people were necessarily looking for a bargain. It was certainly the last thing on my mind.
Click to expand...

He lost me as a cutomer.......forever.
 
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