Carom Cue for Pocket Billiards?

feedtheworm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone use one for this? Any advice on advantages, disadvantages or differences?

I like the idea of something slightly longer and a somewhat smaller diameter tip. Generally I play with a 12mm but I'm considering going a little (maybe .5mm) smaller.
The joint is my main concern. A wood pin from the shaft that attaches to the female joint in the forearm is new to me.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Johnny
 
Carom cues have a straight taper shaft. This results in a much shorter cue than a normal pool cue (2 to 3 inches at least.) Most pool players do not like the straight taper because it feels strange in a closed bridge. As you stroke, the shaft will have varying diameters traveling through your bridge fingers as opposed to a pool which is the same diameter for the last 12 inches or so from the tip. I used to play with a carom cue in college. It had a wooden pin joint and it felt like a one piece house cue when you hit the balls. This cue was made by Helmstetter. It had a pool shaft and a carom shaft.After several years of experimenting, I decided that I liked the pool shaft for pool and the carom shaft for 3 cushion billiards. This is a personal preference. You can only determine this by trying for yourself, I think.
 
Carom cues have a straight taper shaft. This results in a much shorter cue than a normal pool cue (2 to 3 inches at least.) Most pool players do not like the straight taper because it feels strange in a closed bridge. As you stroke, the shaft will have varying diameters traveling through your bridge fingers as opposed to a pool which is the same diameter for the last 12 inches or so from the tip. I used to play with a carom cue in college. It had a wooden pin joint and it felt like a one piece house cue when you hit the balls. This cue was made by Helmstetter. It had a pool shaft and a carom shaft.After several years of experimenting, I decided that I liked the pool shaft for pool and the carom shaft for 3 cushion billiards. This is a personal preference. You can only determine this by trying for yourself, I think.



Thanks for the input.
 
I use a modified carom taper for pool - the taper is Schuler Cue's European taper, which is a conical taper with some "relief for the fingers" (as Ray Schuler described it) in the first few inches. He designed this taper for Raymond Ceulemans, the great billiard champion. I don't know how long Ceulemans used this taper, but he did use it for a while at least. The tip diameter is 12mm.

In other respects, my cue diverges from what billiard cue purists would consider a billiard cue. It's 57" long (too long), 19.25 ounces (too heavy), and it doesn't have the wood screw. It's perfectly fine to play billiards with, though.

The carom taper hits very solid and I prefer it, but then I'm used to it. When another pool player hits with it they notice the difference immediately and generally they don't like it. As far as I'm concerned you can play pool with this type of taper just as well as with the near universal "pro taper", but others will disagree. Earl Strickland, for example, saw it and said "you shoot pool with that thing?" He did admit, though, that it hits very solid.

For pool you don't want a short cue like billiard players use. They seldom have to stretch for a shot because they have to hit it hard enough to hit three or more rails and stretching makes this difficult, but pool players often stretch for short soft shots. I recommend at least 57", 58" is probably better.

The "relief for the fingers" (a somewhat slower taper) in the first few inches is important to me. I also have a purely conical taper and I don't like it for pool. Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I see no good reason to try to get used to it.
 
... The joint is my main concern.

A wood pin from the shaft that attaches to the female joint in the forearm is new to me.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Johnny
Pin in the shaft to female in butt is the standard for carom cues, no?

And why is the joint a concern anyway? In a blind taste test, virtually NO ONE could tell the difference between joints.

That said, I have been playing only billiards for a while and that pool shaft feels so whippy to me now (when I play pool w/ it). I would like to have a couple of shafts that weren't pro-tapered for the pool cue...
 
Does anyone use one for this? Any advice on advantages, disadvantages or differences?

I like the idea of something slightly longer and a somewhat smaller diameter tip. Generally I play with a 12mm but I'm considering going a little (maybe .5mm) smaller.
The joint is my main concern. A wood pin from the shaft that attaches to the female joint in the forearm is new to me.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Johnny
Ron Kilby is a cue maker you may be interested in. He's known for carom cues, but also makes pool cues that incorporate a number of design elements common to carom cues. Here is a link to his the design philosophy page on his website. I have a Kilby pool cue that I like a lot--it's different from other "regular" kinds of pool cues. Check him out.
 
I use a modified carom taper for pool - the taper is Schuler Cue's European taper, which is a conical taper with some "relief for the fingers" (as Ray Schuler described it) in the first few inches. He designed this taper for Raymond Ceulemans, the great billiard champion. I don't know how long Ceulemans used this taper, but he did use it for a while at least. The tip diameter is 12mm.

In other respects, my cue diverges from what billiard cue purists would consider a billiard cue. It's 57" long (too long), 19.25 ounces (too heavy), and it doesn't have the wood screw. It's perfectly fine to play billiards with, though.

The carom taper hits very solid and I prefer it, but then I'm used to it. When another pool player hits with it they notice the difference immediately and generally they don't like it. As far as I'm concerned you can play pool with this type of taper just as well as with the near universal "pro taper", but others will disagree. Earl Strickland, for example, saw it and said "you shoot pool with that thing?" He did admit, though, that it hits very solid.

For pool you don't want a short cue like billiard players use. They seldom have to stretch for a shot because they have to hit it hard enough to hit three or more rails and stretching makes this difficult, but pool players often stretch for short soft shots. I recommend at least 57", 58" is probably better.

The "relief for the fingers" (a somewhat slower taper) in the first few inches is important to me. I also have a purely conical taper and I don't like it for pool. Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I see no good reason to try to get used to it.
Good explanation.

My carom cue also has a modified carom taper. Just a tad less stiff than traditional carom shafts but considerably stiffer than a pro taper pool shaft.

There's nothing wrong with non-wood pin carom cues. I think a lot of it comes from tradition for one and a preferred rearward balance point for carom. Generally pool cues are forward balanced so metal in the joint helps move the balance point up.

Several weeks ago I hit a couple of 3C shots with one of the popular LD shafts. It hit pretty good for a pool shaft. You might consider one of these if you can get one in 11.5mm.
 
Ron Kilby is a cue maker you may be interested in. He's known for carom cues, but also makes pool cues that incorporate a number of design elements common to carom cues. Here is a link to his the design philosophy page on his website. I have a Kilby pool cue that I like a lot--it's different from other "regular" kinds of pool cues. Check him out.


Thanks for all of the great info to everyone who has responded.

There is a Kilby for sale on here that is what caught my attention. It seems like more of a pool cue with some carom cue features.
 
I use a modified carom taper for pool - the taper is Schuler Cue's European taper, which is a conical taper with some "relief for the fingers" (as Ray Schuler described it) in the first few inches. He designed this taper for Raymond Ceulemans, the great billiard champion. I don't know how long Ceulemans used this taper, but he did use it for a while at least. The tip diameter is 12mm.

.

That's what i use.It's rare to hear of someone using a cue i could borrow.
When i first met Efren 20 years ago he was using the same taper.
Mike Lebron's is similar but a half milimeter smaller.
...We're in pretty good company
 
Just another viewpoint...I've been playing carom billiards, off and on, for more than 25 years...always with my pool cue. Although I'm a banger, by most carom standards (my HR is only 7), I can play a little (have played with Wei Chao several times in NYC), and you CAN play billiards with a pool cue, the same as you can play snooker with a pool cue...just as you can play pool with a carom cue. They all have a leather tip, and are made of wood...the necessities.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
carom cues

i build a pool cue with the wood pin in the butt, and the shaft has a constant taper.


i was always interested in the stiffness of carom cue, so i decided to try to build a pool cue with the characteristics of a carom cue.


i still make it 12 1/2 to 13 mm at the tip and this makes for a larger, heavier shaft, stiffer shaft. i do not think it would make a very good billiard cue but i happen to think it makes a great pool cue.

you can find examples of the cues i build on the for sale section, under the heading of chuck starkey.


chuck
 
i build a pool cue with the wood pin in the butt, and the shaft has a constant taper.


i was always interested in the stiffness of carom cue, so i decided to try to build a pool cue with the characteristics of a carom cue.


i still make it 12 1/2 to 13 mm at the tip and this makes for a larger, heavier shaft, stiffer shaft. i do not think it would make a very good billiard cue but i happen to think it makes a great pool cue.

you can find examples of the cues i build on the for sale section, under the heading of chuck starkey.


chuck

Just checked out a bunch of them. Nice looking unique cues.
 
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