CB hit-heavy or light?

[3RAILKICK]

I'm not sure I can properly describe the CB 'hit' I'm asking about.

Lets say (playing 9ball) that the 8 and 9 are each on the opposite long rails at the head spot end-each at about the second to third diamond from the corners-about 1/2 ball off the rails.

The shooter is nearly straight in on the 8 with the CB about 2 diamonds away toward the other end of the table and CB is about one ball width to the inside toward the center of the table.

The shooter makes the 8 in the corner w/a little top/ inside and the CB travels primarily forward- spins off the long rail-spins off the bottom rail and comes up near the side pocket (or past it) on the opposite side near the 9 and pockets the 9 in the corner at the same end of the table that the 8 went.

I like the shot. I have trouble with it.

Those that I see hit it well seem to hit a "light-active-free running" CB to get the action needed for the shot. Mine is a "heavy-lethargic-non moving CB"

1) Does this make sense? (either the ball layout or the description of the lively CB?)

2) If so: any suggestions as how to hit this shot? For me-too hard kills the CB action-too much side doesnt get me to the bottom rail-too much top keeps me on the 8 ball side and I don't get on the 9.

A useful and pretty shot-I wish I could hit it.

Thanks- for any suggestions or constructive criticisms.

3railkick

 

[3andstop]

If I'm picturing your shot correctly, the stroke would need to be made with high and a touch of running english with a very level cue and a smooth complete follow through. Punching or stabbing at the shot will make it much harder to execute.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm not sure I can properly describe the CB 'hit' I'm asking about.

Lets say (playing 9ball) that the 8 and 9 are each on the opposite long rails at the head spot end-each at about the second to third diamond from the corners-about 1/2 ball off the rails.

The shooter is nearly straight in on the 8 with the CB about 2 diamonds away toward the other end of the table and CB is about one ball width to the inside toward the center of the table.

The shooter makes the 8 in the corner w/a little top/ inside and the CB travels primarily forward- spins off the long rail-spins off the bottom rail and comes up near the side pocket (or past it) on the opposite side near the 9 and pockets the 9 in the corner at the same end of the table that the 8 went.

I like the shot. I have trouble with it.

Those that I see hit it well seem to hit a "light-active-free running" CB to get the action needed for the shot. Mine is a "heavy-lethargic-non moving CB"

This shot, right?

CueTable Help

You probably need to hit farther from center on the CB. All the CB's forward momentum is killed when it hits the OB nearly straight on, so all the travel after that is due to whatever spin you put on it (follow and sidespin), so you have to put a lot on it. When you hit this shot hard (as you must) your tip/CB accuracy goes down - you just need to practice it.

Use a numbered ball as your cue ball with the number right side up and facing you, the center of the number at dead centerball. Try to make the shot by hitting this "cue ball" right on the circle (around the number) at 1:30 o'clock. Look at the chalk mark on the ball afterward to check your tip/CB accuracy. If you hit the circle (or just inside it), you'll get this shape. But just a little outside the circle and you'll miscue, so you probably already "instinctively" hit closer to center.

When you can hit near the circle pretty consistently, try hitting different spots on it (between 12 o'clock & 3 o'clock) to vary the amounts of topspin vs. sidespin on this shot. You can get OK shape with no sidespin, but you have to hit it pretty hard and it leaves a sharper cut on the 9. It doesn't take much sidespin to get the CB pretty far across the table - with maximum sidespin (3 o'clock) the CB can hit the 9 ball.

pj
chgo

 

[3RAILKICK]

That's it

:thumbup:

This shot, right?

CueTable Help

Yes-that's exactly the shot. Thanks for the cue table visual(something else I can't do). Those are good suggestions that I will try.

It does seem like I have to hit the CB harder than I am comfortable doing-so the accuracy must suffer too. I seem to tense up- and grip tighter on the cue trying to become more accurate but then the CB action just seems to die. And the CB seems to squirt a bit- making this just one of those 'inside english' shots that drive me nuts. I don't miss them consistently-I just consistently miss them when I'm trying to travel the CB after hitting the OB.

Ain't this game fun!!

Thanks for your helpful comments

3railkick

 

[eezbank]

Try shooting the shot with just your thumb and index finger. It sounds like you are killing the action on the CB by gripping tight as you try to put more power into the shot. Shots like this it's better to use more of a wrist snap than to try to slam your stroke in for more power.

 

[CreeDo]

Not to be a jerk but forget the wrist snap stuff. The cue ball doesn't care if you stroked it with or without a wrist snap, it just cares about the speed, angle, and contact point.

What PJ said is a good point... alot of people hit force follow shots too low. The sweet spot is about halfway between the top of the CB and the center... just like with draw.

I have seen people shoot the shot 2 ways, and get nearly the same position. Some guys drill forward, putting serious follow on it, so that you actually see a slight hook or bending action on the CB just before it dives into the bottom rail. This is an example of hitting very high (near the miscue point) and pretty forcefully. The shot looks (and feels) quite ... forced is the best word. I've seen guys hit it with a fast, almost stabby stroke. Not saying you should stab a the ball, that's just what it looks like to a spectator. I see this kind of stroke used on slow cloth or on bad rails where the ball wants to die too easily.

I have also seen the shot done with a smooth, powerful level stroke where you don't hit quite as high on the cue ball. Because you're hitting closer to center, the CB will stun sideways a bit further (like hitting at the first diamond instead of hitting at the point in the diagram). Because this carries 'sideways' more, you don't need as much inside english. You could get away with almost none. Even though this stroke probably needs just as much force, it seems like people hit it more 'smoothly'... maybe because the tip is not so close to the upper miscue limit, so they can stroke more confidently.

Pay extra attention also to how fat you hit the ball. If you cheat the pocket here towards the thin side of the pocket, a little bit more energy stays with the cue ball. You'll find it going more 'sideways' than forward since you're cutting it more. If getting enough travel distance out of the shot is the problem... hit it higher, harder, and a smidge thinner.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Thanks for the cue table visual(something else I can't do).

There's a "sticky" thread with instructions.

It does seem like I have to hit the CB harder than I am comfortable doing-so the accuracy must suffer too. I seem to tense up- and grip tighter on the cue trying to become more accurate but then the CB action just seems to die.

Accuracy in where you hit the CB is the important thing. You'll find you need less power when you get more spin.

And the CB seems to squirt a bit- making this just one of those 'inside english' shots that drive me nuts. I don't miss them consistently-I just consistently miss them when I'm trying to travel the CB after hitting the OB.

That's to be expected - you get more squirt when you hit hard (actually less "swerve", but the effect is the same). Practice, practice, practice...

Ain't this game fun!!

Only on days with a "y" in them.

Thanks for your helpful comments

Glad to help.

pj
chgo