Cenntennial, Anniversary, Gold Crown 1, 2, and 3 frames, how flat do think they are

[ElCorazonFrio]

I'm sorry, but could you put that in thousandths of an inch increments please? Because that's the measurements I use when leveling slates!

This argument is so not worth it.

I'll simply say that you could learn a lot if you didn't let your gigantic ego get in the way.

Edit to add: Yes, I could put that into thousandths of an inch if I were given the model of level, the material of the measuring tube and the change in temperature.

 

[realkingcobra]

This argument is so not worth it.

I'll simply say that you could learn a lot if you didn't let your gigantic ego get in the way.

Edit to add: Yes, I could put that into thousandths of an inch if I were given the model of level, the material of the measuring tube and the change in temperature.

Hose levels like that are designed for laying the grade of cement and such flat, not pool table slate....god damn you're beyond help, all you want to do is argue with me about something you know NOTHING about!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

I'l l si mply say that you could learn a lot if you didn't let your gigantic ego get in the way.

It's YOUR ego that is in question buddy, it has to be, because like it to not, I'm at the TOP of the food chain when it comes to working on pool tables! Unlike any other pool table mechanic you could ever possibly name, I have built over 500 home style pool tables from scratch, designed and built my own line of coin operated pool tables in 8 and 9ft sizes, 128 to be exact, owned 3 different pool halls, was instrumental In the design and development of the Diamond smart tables....what in the hell do I still have to learn about how to level god damn pool table slates??????? I've been working on pool tables since 1983....how long have you been working on them Einstein????

 

[fastone371]

Well for your information MR. Bond, some of us don't happen to care to follow behind that classic 57' Chevy, when the oil smoke coming out of the exhaust chokes you out, matter of fact, the state don't care to much for it either when the Chevy won't pass the emissions test...and therefore won't reissue a new registration so on that note, like Mark and I say all the time, just because a table is old, and it's a classic, that don't mean it has to play old, and like shit compared to today's pool tables

That is the reason so many people put late model drive trains in the tri-5s and other classic/muscle cars, you keep the classic look but have the nice driveability with fuel injection, overdrive transmission, and etc...
I would kind of compare that to doing sub-rails, cushions, and Simonis on a GC, you get your classic look and get a current playing type table.

As far as you asking pdcue about the 70 Camaro I guess that was because the 70 was a late model year production. People may call them a 701/2 but your title calls the car a 1970. They were never actually titled as a 1970 1/2.

 

[West Point 1987]

That is the reason so many people put late model drive trains in the tri-5s and other classic/muscle cars, you keep the classic look but have the nice driveability with fuel injection, overdrive transmission, and etc...
I would kind of compare that to doing sub-rails, cushions, and Simonis on a GC, you get your classic look and get a current playing type table.

As far as you asking pdcue about the 70 Camaro I guess that was because the 70 was a late model year production. People may call them a 701/2 but your title calls the car a 1970. They were never actually titled as a 1970 1/2.

Completely agree...I get the nostalgia of the '70s muscle cars...recently went to visit a buddy and drove his '70 Plymouth Roadrunner. Great car, but it handled like a boat on a bad sea. We forget how bad the suspension on cars used to be. I also got to drive his '63 Stingray (with twin turbos, 700+ hp!) and his '56 Chevy. The Corvette was nuts, no explanation needed. The Chevy was surprising, by the time I hit 55mph, I felt like I was doing 75. Modern cars have tighter suspension and very quiet interiors; the older cars are crazy loud and float all over the place. My tiny little Honda Civic Hybrid will creep up to 85 before I know it, but I felt EVERY mph that Chevy did.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

It's YOUR ego that is in question buddy, it has to be, because like it to not, I'm at the TOP of the food chain when it comes to working on pool tables! Unlike any other pool table mechanic you could ever possibly name, I have built over 500 home style pool tables from scratch, designed and built my own line of coin operated pool tables in 8 and 9ft sizes, 128 to be exact, owned 3 different pool halls, was instrumental In the design and development of the Diamond smart tables....what in the hell do I still have to learn about how to level god damn pool table slates??????? I've been working on pool tables since 1983....how long have you been working on them Einstein????

Relax. You asked a question and I answered it. The question was about thermal growth.

I know more about thermal growth, measuring, tolerances, accuracy of instruments, and leveling than you will ever know.

I'm done with you. You may be decent at furniture repair, but if you listened you might find methods that could make your work easier.

 

[pdcue]

Lucky?...how about not really knowing what you're doing, so it's perfect...if you say it is....got any pictures of that work you did?

How about I DO really know what I'm doing...

For what conceivable reason would I have taken pictures?

And while we're at it - how can you presume to know anything about what I know
or am capable of? esp when you can't even figure out we are talking about two DIFFERENT cloths from Stevens?

Just sayin...

Dale

 

[realkingcobra]

You may be decent at furniture repair, but if you listened you might find methods that could make your work easier.

How utterly stupid, to actually think I work on furniture repair, and for you to actually think you, who don't work on pool tables for a living as I do, could teach me a thing or two about leveling slates.....your EGO is getting the best of you, either that or you're smoking some serious dope!!!

 

[mm4pool]

RKC, i found your router rig quite inventive. question tho, if you use a belt sander to remove router marks how do you insure belt sander doesnt "undo" what router rig did for flatness?

Mike

 

[book collector]

I bought a GC 3.
I tried the table out before I bought it , shot several 3, 4 and 5 rail kicks and slow rolled the ball toward each of the pockets.
Did everything I could think of to make sure the table was as good as I wanted it to be before I bought it.
Everything was fine.
I got it home and started trying to level it and found that the 2 long rail frames seemed twisted.
WE marked all the pieces when we took it apart and when I got it home I found that several pieces had unmatched markings 2 seemed like they were stamped at the factory and it had H and F on both ends lol
I think the table had been moved several times and they had put it together wrong at least one of them and marked the parts incorrectly ,
. I did a lot of Sherlock Holmesing , putting things together and looking at marks and things to finally give it my best shot as to how it originally started out.
The bottom line is, even with all that going on , once I got the table as level as I could , it plays great for home use .
I don't know if it would stay level very long in a pool room setting though , but do any of them?

 

[realkingcobra]

RKC, i found your router rig quite inventive. question tho, if you use a belt sander to remove router marks how do you insure belt sander doesnt "undo" what router rig did for flatness?

Mike

By using a 120 grit 3"×21" belt sander, you'd need to spend some time in one spot to make a change in the flatness, so it's only lightly used. If you magic marker the wood, sand it smooth, and can still see the magic maker lines, nothing was really take down, just smoothed out is all.

 

[realkingcobra]

I bought a GC 3.
I tried the table out before I bought it , shot several 3, 4 and 5 rail kicks and slow rolled the ball toward each of the pockets.
Did everything I could think of to make sure the table was as good as I wanted it to be before I bought it.
Everything was fine.
I got it home and started trying to level it and found that the 2 long rail frames seemed twisted.
WE marked all the pieces when we took it apart and when I got it home I found that several pieces had unmatched markings 2 seemed like they were stamped at the factory and it had H and F on both ends lol
I think the table had been moved several times and they had put it together wrong at least one of them and marked the parts incorrectly ,
. I did a lot of Sherlock Holmesing , putting things together and looking at marks and things to finally give it my best shot as to how it originally started out.
The bottom line is, even with all that going on , once I got the table as level as I could , it plays great for home use .
I don't know if it would stay level very long in a pool room setting though , but do any of them?

I can't even begin to remember how many mismatched GC frames I've had to deal with in the past, the most recent being made up from 7 different frames. All 4 outside frame members came from 4 different frames and we're off by as much as an 1/8" on the surface from matching up with the end frame members, along with mismatched slates, mismatched rails....what a nightmare. But, the frame cut dead flat just like it was made to fit that way in the first place. And you're right about the leveling changing. Just because a set of slates can be leveled at the beginning when a table is initially set up, that don't mean it's going to stay that way forever. Wedges are pressure points creating lift between the frame and the slate, in which over time, the frame will relax that lift right at the point of the wedge due to the movement of the frame adapting to that additional weight placed right at that spot on the frame, so until a frame balances out so to speak, it's going to continue to change until there's no more movement. But the best way to make them leveling adjustments is with a built in leveling system which does not require the disassembling of the table, which is what I designed, as well as Diamond.

 

[realkingcobra]

How about I DO really know what I'm doing...

For what conceivable reason would I have taken pictures?

And while we're at it - how can you presume to know anything about what I know
or am capable of? esp when you can't even figure out we are talking about two DIFFERENT cloths from Stevens?

Just sayin...

Dale

Ok, what ever buddy, I only installed 1,000's upon 1, 000 ' s of yards of Stevens cloth, but had no idea what I was installing, and to think, I was always under the impression that my invoices that I always received with each of order of cloth read " Stevens 22oz, Super Weave, 80% wool, 20% nylon

 

[realkingcobra]

The cloth used in such places was Stevens 100% wool - or an equiv -faster than 860 and effectively just as thin.

And this part of a statement you made is just pure bs, cloths back then played slow as shit, which is what the IPT' tried to recreate when they had Granito' make their special cloth, thick and slow, because they wanted to try and promote how pool tables back in the day played, Simonis 860 by far is not a thin cloth, 760 is much thinner, and there's no way in hell a thick weaved cloth back in the day played as fast as Simonis 860 does today, not even if the cloth is worn out....you're remembering things that are just wrong, just ask Jay Helfert, Billy Incardona, or anyone else that was playing back then, and see if you can get them to agree with you....wow, you're on social security I'm guessing

 

[realkingcobra]

I bought a GC 3.
I tried the table out before I bought it , shot several 3, 4 and 5 rail kicks and slow rolled the ball toward each of the pockets.
Did everything I could think of to make sure the table was as good as I wanted it to be before I bought it.
Everything was fine.
I got it home and started trying to level it and found that the 2 long rail frames seemed twiste
WE marked all the pieces when we took it apart and when I got it home I found that several pieces had unmatched markings 2 seemed like they were stamped at the factory and it had H and F on both ends lol
I think the table had been moved several times and they had put it together wrong at least one of them and marked the parts incorrectly ,
. I did a lot of Sherlock Holmesing , putting things together and looking at marks and things to finally give it my best shot as to how it originally started out.
The bottom line is, even with all that going on , once I got the table as level as I could , it plays great for home use .
I don't know if it would stay level very long in a pool room setting though , but do any of them?

Ya know what, I once went to work on a GC3 that the customer wasn't happy with the last so called pool table mechanic that worked on, because the balls started hopping off the rails again. I got to the guys house, took the table apart, stripped the bed cloth off the slate so I'd have a work surface to rebuild the rails on....and guess what I found out? The last mechanic put the wrong cushions on, the nose was low, and rather than go back and fix the rails right, he decided it would be less work if he took a belt sander...and sand down the outside edges of the slate at an angle to lower the back of the rails as a fix for the cushion's being to low. I told the owner, sorry, but unless you have a new slate laying around somewhere, there's nothing I can do. I packed up my tools, and left. He later sold the table...slates and all, and bought an Olhausen.

 

[book collector]

Hose levels like that are designed for laying the grade of cement and such flat, not pool table slate....god damn you're beyond help, all you want to do is argue with me about something you know NOTHING about!!!

I'm sure Dr. Dave or Bob Jewett could answer this question more reliably but I believe the accuracy of a water tube level over a 10 foot span is .20944 inches, a Starrett level is accurate to .005 inches.
The water hose level is an inexpensive great way to measure over long distances or as RKC said , leveling a sidewalk or a deck , but not so good for a pool table.

 

[realkingcobra]

Wanna know what the morel of the story is....that's right, you get what you pay for

 

[pdcue]

Ok, what ever buddy, I only installed 1,000's upon 1, 000 ' s of yards of Stevens cloth, but had no idea what I was installing, and to think, I was always under the impression that my invoices that I always received with each of order of cloth read " Stevens 22oz, Super Weave, 80% wool, 20% nylon

Many people are aware Stevens made 80/20 cloth.

Many people, other than you, are also aware they made 100% wool cloth.

It's not Rocket Science.

Do you need it explained in shorter words?

Dale(Math Major at large)

 

[BmoreMoney]

Ya know what, I once went to work on a GC3 that the customer wasn't happy with the last so called pool table mechanic that worked on, because the balls started hopping off the rails again. I got to the guys house, took the table apart, stripped the bed cloth off the slate so I'd have a work surface to rebuild the rails on....and guess what I found out? The last mechanic put the wrong cushions on, the nose was low, and rather than go back and fix the rails right, he decided it would be less work if he took a belt sander...and sand down the outside edges of the slate at an angle to lower the back of the rails as a fix for the cushion's being to low. I told the owner, sorry, but unless you have a new slate laying around somewhere, there's nothing I can do. I packed up my tools, and left. He later sold the table...slates and all, and bought an Olhausen.

Why couldn't you just build them back up with Bondo or JBweld or something? ( if owner wanted to pay )

 

[realkingcobra]

Why couldn't you just build them back up with Bondo or JBweld or something? ( if owner wanted to pay )

The time frame to do that, the mess....isn't worth it, besides that, once you open that can of worms, you own it! Next person that works on the pool table gets told RKC worked on it last....gets to ask the question like, "why didn't he just replace the slate....that's what I would have done"

Nope, I'd fix it right, or pass....so, I passed. With no replacement slate already there, there was no point in waiting around until one could be located, then shipped, or delivered.