Center ball

[SpiderWebComm]

If you want to hit a "center ball" shot, where do you hit the CB?

I know this has been discussed before; however, I'd like to see the % of what people do and how they play (generally speaking). I'm interested in those who do not hit center CB on PURPOSE - not those who know they don't hit it and try to.

 

[Scott Lee]

Truthfully, you cannot hit center on the CB...because centerball is the CORE of the CB. You can, however, aim at the core, and strike the outside edge of the circumferance, at a very close approximation of where center is. MOST poolplayers aim higher than where the correct approximation is, due to perceptual errors in "seeing" where center is on the outside of the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[cowboyup200560]

Interesting Idea Scott. I never thought of it that way but I guess for the most part I agree. I am maybe a average C player on most days and I aim for as close to "center ball" as my stroke is capable of. I would like to see more people comment on this.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Truthfully, you cannot hit center on the CB...because centerball is the CORE of the CB. You can, however, aim at the core, and strike the outside edge of the circumferance, at a very close approximation of where center is. MOST poolplayers aim higher than where the correct approximation is, due to perceptual errors in "seeing" where center is on the outside of the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott-

I like how you capitalized CORE. That's crucial and what I wanted to get at in the thread. Based on what you just said, however, no one would achieve center ball on your description unless they stroked straight -- which hardly anyone really does. Meaning, if you hitch slightly one way or another, wouldn't you have to make a slight adjustment left/right?

I have to give credit to Danny Harriman in pointing this out to me. I went to a snooker table to really test this. It's really hard to stun a shot dead with no movement at all with center. True center ball for me is about 1/4 (maybe slightly less) of a tip right of center because I have a slight hitch to the left (using a regular sized 2.25" ball).

Your thoughts?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Scott-

I like how you capitalized CORE. That's crucial and what I wanted to get at in the thread. Based on what you just said, however, no one would achieve center ball on your description unless they stroked straight -- which hardly anyone really does. Meaning, if you hitch slightly one way or another, wouldn't you have to make a slight adjustment left/right?

I have to give credit to Danny Harriman in pointing this out to me. I went to a snooker table to really test this. It's really hard to stun a shot dead with no movement at all with center. True center ball for me is about 1/4 (maybe slightly less) of a tip right of center because I have a slight hitch to the left (using a regular sized 2.25" ball).

Your thoughts?

I think we're getting just a WEE bit too technical here. When I hit "centre ball", the ball stops, with little transference of siding or over or bottom spin. When I stun the ball, I am getting the cueball to slide along the tangent line. That, to me, means I am hitting the cueball EXACTLY where I am aiming, because that was my desired effect that I was looking for. I could care less if I have .1mm of offset from dead center. I hit "centre", and got the result that a centre ball hit should. I don't conpensate by using any other counter-acting tip placement.

 

[Cornerman]

I don't see the choice of "I never want to hit centerball."

Did you mean "stun shot?"

Fred

 

[cowboyup200560]

"In theory" correct me if im wrong. If you adjust left or right becaouse of your stroke imperfections, wouldn't you also be changing your sighting line as well???? Thats the way I read it but like I said I'm no pro. Just looking to pick up some info and maybe improve my game. Thanks

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think we're getting just a WEE bit too technical here. When I hit "centre ball", the ball stops, with little transference of siding or over or bottom spin. When I stun the ball, I am getting the cueball to slide along the tangent line. That, to me, means I am hitting the cueball EXACTLY where I am aiming, because that was my desired effect that I was looking for. I could care less if I have .1mm of offset from dead center. I hit "centre", and got the result that a centre ball hit should. I don't conpensate by using any other counter-acting tip placement.

I dont think it's too technical. If you strike perceived center and you're shooting at an OB that's 3 or 4 feet away, it's not proving anything. Shoot an object ball that's 7 or 8 feet away -- do it 10x and pay notice to your CB movement. If you hit center ball and your CB doesn't move a hair, your stroke is pretty good Shawn.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

"In theory" correct me if im wrong. If you adjust left or right becaouse of your stroke imperfections, wouldn't you also be changing your sighting line as well???? Thats the way I read it but like I said I'm no pro. Just looking to pick up some info and maybe improve my game. Thanks

No, sight line remains unchanged.

 

[Derek]

This is where the measle ball shines. It amazes me on how many "straight" shots I make that has a ton of sidespin on. Goes to show you how important "center" ball hits are. Center ball drills are part of Scott's teaching curriculum and should be a part of everyone's practice session. I think I recall one of Jim Wych's telecasts that snooker players will practice center ball hits for hours without performing any other drills.

Center ball hits and stop shots will put you well on your way to being a good player.

 

[cowboyup200560]

One thing that I have found that helped my stroke was when playing 9 ball at home i will use and striped ball as a cue ball as I dont have a measles ball. I think the Striped ball also "shows" the english better than a measles ball. JMO

 

[steev]

well, it's a matter of semantics here for me. a 'center ball shot' often translates to 'stun shot', as in, the effect at impact should be that of center ball. in that case, i often hit other than center when shooting 'center ball shots'.

-s

 

[Flettir]

Center Ball

If you want to hit a "center ball" shot, where do you hit the CB?

I know this has been discussed before; however, I'd like to see the % of what people do and how they play (generally speaking). I'm interested in those who do not hit center CB on PURPOSE - not those who know they don't hit it and try to.

I would consider myself to be a B or B+ player. I know that when I want centerball action on the hit, I.E. stop shot or stun shot I do not aim at the center of the cue ball. Depending on the distince to the OB and speed with which I intend to hit the CB, I hit the CB about 1/4 tip below center. This way when it gets to the OB it has no top or bottom spin on it.

My $0.02 worth. Flettir

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I should have been more specific in my poll / thread. I'm not referring to hitting low. I'm referring to hitting left/right of center. Sorry, my bad.

 

[hang-the-9]

If you want to hit a "center ball" shot, where do you hit the CB?

I know this has been discussed before; however, I'd like to see the % of what people do and how they play (generally speaking). I'm interested in those who do not hit center CB on PURPOSE - not those who know they don't hit it and try to.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean here.

Do you mean hit a "stun shot", or aim for the center and don't actually accomplish it, or never try to use center ball in shooting?

EDIT - just read your last responce. I do use that center ball hit with left or right spin and try to stay as close to the center line of the ball as possible

(---) <-- if this is what you mean by center ball, striking anywhere along the equator, instead of ( x ) <-- where you try to hit dead center mass.

I almost never hit center ball exactly, but that is due to comfort level in stroking and position play. I try to play most of my shots to use stop shots or top or bottom with very little english. The few times I do need to hit the ball dead center is to roll it a tiny bit forward for shape or hit it hard for a dead angle reflection.

 

[jsp]

.True center ball for me is about 1/4 (maybe slightly less) of a tip right of center because I have a slight hitch to the left...

Maybe that's where you think or perceive you're hitting the CB, based on your 2D perspective.

But if you really do hit a "true center ball" shot, such that the CB results in zero sidespin, then you really did hit "center ball".

When trying to define what "center ball" is, we shouldn't be thinking of a point in three-dimensional space, but rather a vector. Center ball is achieved when the direction of this vector (this vector representing the magnitude and direction of the cue tip hitting the CB) is pointing completely at the vertical axis of the the CB.

So if you did execute a perfect stun-shot with zero sidespin, then on impact you did strike straight through the vertical axis of the CB. From your two-dimensional perspective, however, it may appear to look like you're hitting a bit off center. But if the results show you hit center ball, then you actually stroked through center ball.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Maybe that's where you think or perceive you're hitting the CB, based on your setup and sighting.

But if you really do hit a "true center ball" shot, such that the CB results in zero sidespin, then you really did hit "center ball".

When trying to define what "center ball" is, we shouldn't be thinking of a point in three-dimensional space, but rather as a vector. Center ball is achieved when the direction of this vector (this vector representing the magnitude and direction of the cue tip hitting the CB) is pointing completely at the vertical axis of the the CB.

So if you did execute a perfect stun-shot with zero sidespin, then on impact you did stroke straight through the vertical axis of the CB. From your two dimensional perspective, however, it may appear to look like you're hitting a bit off center. But if the results show you hit center ball, then you actually stroked through center ball.

You just made my point. In order for me to stroke through the core, i can't hit the center of the CB fact. It's not perception, it's fact (w/ me). I was curious how many other players know and play this.

I'm sure some people probably think, "Of course I hit the center of the CB face to hit center, DUHH!!" ..... but, I'm willing to be people don't stroke as straight as they want to believe and they really don't get true center results.

I'm not talking about stun... I'm talking zero squirt.... so center-axis.

 

[jsp]

In order for me to stroke through the core, i can't hit the center of the CB...

I understand the point you're trying to make.

I just wanted to point out that when you say "center of the CB", you're really just referring to the shooter's two-dimensional perspective of the CB. It's a relative term, dependent on the shooter's viewing perspective.

You say that you have to aim slightly to the right of "center ball" to perfectly achieve a center ball hit. From your sighting perspective, it might not appear that you're hitting center ball. However, if you keep the exact same stroke and tip placement of the CB but just move your head slightly to the right, then it would appear that you are hitting "center ball".

 

[Solartje]

I dont think it's too technical. If you strike perceived center and you're shooting at an OB that's 3 or 4 feet away, it's not proving anything. Shoot an object ball that's 7 or 8 feet away -- do it 10x and pay notice to your CB movement. If you hit center ball and your CB doesn't move a hair, your stroke is pretty good Shawn.

I use BHE on all my shots.

It doesnt matter where i hit the cb, on the real center or what my eyes think is the real center. My cb will always be going in a straight line. And if my stroke isnt perfectly horizontal (wich it always is), the 0.002" swerve movement to the left or to the right because of a very slight elevated cue wont make me miss a pot, because the pockets are in most of the times 200% the size of a ball, wich gives +- 5? angle error so i can aford to have 0.002" swerve. as long as my deflection = 0?, i dont care for a 1/4th of a tip right or left for real center movement.

or am i wrong?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I use BHE on all my shots.

It doesnt matter where i hit the cb, on the real center or what my eyes think is the real center. My cb will always be going in a straight line. And if my stroke isnt perfectly horizontal (wich it always is), the 0.002" swerve movement to the left or to the right because of a very slight elevated cue wont make me miss a pot, because the pockets are in most of the times 200% the size of a ball, wich gives +- 5? angle error so i can aford to have 0.002" swerve. as long as my deflection = 0?, i dont care for a 1/4th of a tip right or left for real center movement.

or am i wrong?

I use BHE all the time as well. In order for me to deliver the CB a long distance with no sidespin, I actually hit to the side SLIGHTLY. I know a few pros do this as well, which is why I started the poll to see what the readers do. Based on what you said, using BHE, you might deliver the CB straight, but you still have side spin.

EDIT: IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW TO GET IN TOUCH W/ DANNY HARRIMAN, GET HIM TO COMMENT!