Center CB Rules Most Of The Time

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
While watching top pros on stream and they get a bit out of position, most of them show they're pissed off about it. In the chat room you will see people saying, Oh come on stop being a little brat...the shot you left isn't that hard.

It's not that the shot is hard if that's all you need to make in the run. But most of the time they have to get away from center ball and juice the CB a bit or a lot. The pro knows that this makes the percentage for a miss or bad position go way up.

Set up 9 balls in connect the dots fashion. Now with bih run out using center ball or a hair of natual english. Now put those 9 balls back up and try to run out using left or right english...no center ball. See how much harder it is. Johnnyt
 
good solid advice for any player: beginner or seasoned player.following this strategy will improve your game and it will make you a tougher opponent.
 
And what a lot of people don't realize...is that most of the TV tables are brand new. Virgin cloth that is super slick. I have a friend that has won a lot of money over the years playing pool, and he played in a pro tournament....whereas he was missing a lot more than he should have. After the match, the pro told him that you have to hit closer to center on new/fast cloth. A little bit of English goes a long way when playing with brand new equipment.
 
johnnyt

The funny thing is that "ALWAYS" when I help people with a shot of anytype they think they need to steer or make the cue ball go where they want it to go.

When they put just a third of that effort into the angle they get on the object ball to get on the next there eyes really light up!


C.D.
 
I like the advice of "use as little tip offset as possible" rather than "hit centerball". They are really 2 different things, notice that pro in the tournament mentioned "hit closer to center" not "use centerball". Just my 2cents.
 
Yep if your stroke is correct you can still get plenty of action from just one tip off center. Actually there are very few situations where I ever use over one tip off center.

I might sometimes use that much if I need to break out a cluster after making a shot and I need to do it with enough force to get the cueball into a certain position after.
 
Very good advice. I also noticed that they tend to shoot a hair below center... Am I wrong? Either way nice thread JohnnyT
 
paulempor said:
Very good advice. I also noticed that they tend to shoot a hair below center... Am I wrong? Either way nice thread JohnnyT
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I have noticed same thing about pros and very high level players hitting below center. I started to try that a few months ago and I like to think my accuracy improved, I think because its easier to find the vertical center line because you are essentially making the ball narrower looking towards the bottom. Unless you need follow there seems to be no reason to hit ball right at vertical center line either, which I was wondering watching pros shoot so low on ball, its not like all your shots end up stopping or drawing if you vary your speed.
 
fastone371 said:
I have noticed same thing about pros and very high level players hitting below center. I started to try that a few months ago and I like to think my accuracy improved, I think because its easier to find the vertical center line because you are essentially making the ball narrower looking towards the bottom. Unless you need follow there seems to be no reason to hit ball right at vertical center line either, which I was wondering watching pros shoot so low on ball, its not like all your shots end up stopping or drawing if you vary your speed.
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Yes varying your speed you can control cueball movement without ever hitting center. If you are good enough you can control what type of roll the cue ball has when it hits the object ball if you are using bottom- i.e., sliding, forward roll, backwards roll.
 
The 2 biggest problems with "hit centerball" advice as opposed to "use tip offset sparingly" is that when you hit centerball the CB is sliding along the cloth (stop/stun) this is also true (at most distances, unless you are quite close) of the hair below center, this shot is also more accurate for most because the more you move the tip down the vertical axis the more the line of sight/tip contact on the CB come together. Also if you are trying to move the CB forward at short distances it is easier (for me) to hit slightly above center so I get natural roll ASAP. That's why I like to say "hit closer to center" rather than "hit center".
 
PGHteacher said:
The 2 biggest problems with "hit centerball" advice as opposed to "use tip offset sparingly" is that when you hit centerball the CB is sliding along the cloth (stop/stun) this is also true (at most distances, unless you are quite close) of the hair below center, this shot is also more accurate for most because the more you move the tip down the vertical axis the more the line of sight/tip contact on the CB come together. Also if you are trying to move the CB forward at short distances it is easier (for me) to hit slightly above center so I get natural roll ASAP. That's why I like to say "hit closer to center" rather than "hit center".
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I would be surprised if, on average, a shot hit below center is more accurate than a shot hit above center. You may have a slightly improved line of sight cueing below center; that's debatable. On the other hand, when you shoot below center your cue is not as level. If you use English even a little bit (intentionally or not), you are imparting more masse action to the cue ball than you would with a more level follow stroke.

If shot-making accuracy is paramount, I'm shooting above center.
 
TSW said:
I would be surprised if, on average, a shot hit below center is more accurate than a shot hit above center. You may have a slightly improved line of sight cueing below center; that's debatable. On the other hand, when you shoot below center your cue is not as level. If you use English even a little bit (intentionally or not), you are imparting more masse action to the cue ball than you would with a more level follow stroke.

If shot-making accuracy is paramount, I'm shooting above center.
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We are talking about "hairs" of tip offset.:scratchhead: I assumed I was in the majority, maybe I am wrong, I will take a poll.
 
I was told by a very well known pro that he never uses more than a half tip of siding on the ball, obviously sometimes theres exceptions but he says you should never use more than half a tip of siding.
 
In john's schmidt's recent video he has some rules about how to play good straight pool and one of them is "avoid inside english". I thought that was interesting.

Maybe the problem isn't being forced to use sidespin, but specifically being forced to use inside. A touch of outside makes the cut angle more 'natural' (arguably) and outside running english is very commonly used so it feels easy. But inside is unnatural, it's hard to slow roll a ball with inside, it seems to really change where you need to aim, and often it will surprise you with how much or how little the spin takes. It's just less predictable.
 
This thread just highlights what's wrong with forums.

John Schmidt says to avoid inside english. This comes from a guy that uses more soft inside english than anyone in the game!!! So, although his advice is definitely suitable for beginners, he's not a beginner and is a proficient and prolific user of inside english, straight pool or otherwise.

For those of you who say you actually watch the pros and say they stay closer to middle, I call bull$hit. The pros use the most extreme english and still make their shots. That's why they're pros. And they do it a lot.

It astounds me when I hear someone 'watched the pros' and comes up with this line. We can sit side-by-side at any top tournament to disprove this theory. In fact, I've already done a dozen times over with people in forums for over a decade. Truth is truth. Report the truth, not fantasy.

Freddie <~~~ doesn't report anything but observation
 
Cornerman said:
This thread just highlights what's wrong with forums.

John Schmidt says to avoid inside english. This comes from a guy that uses more soft inside english than anyone in the game!!! So, although his advice is definitely suitable for beginners, he's not a beginner and is a proficient and prolific user of inside english, straight pool or otherwise.

For those of you who say you actually watch the pros and say they stay closer to middle, I call bull$hit. The pros use the most extreme english and still make their shots. That's why they're pros. And they do it a lot.

It astounds me when I hear someone 'watched the pros' and comes up with this line. We can sit side-by-side at any top tournament to disprove this theory. In fact, I've already done a dozen times over with people in forums for over a decade. Truth is truth. Report the truth, not fantasy.

Freddie <~~~ doesn't report anything but observation
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I don't see anything wrong with a thread like this in the forums. It's a post where someone expresses an opinion about using english on pool shots. It's exactly the kind of thread that belongs in this forum.

As for John Schmidt... he is talking specifically about making long runs in straight pool. Maybe it applies to pool in general, (IMO it does) ...maybe it only applies to straight pool.

But in the video he uses it VERY sparingly, and goes out of his way to comment on the shots where he's using it. If you think that's bullshit, buy the DVD and count how many times he uses it. I bet less than 30-40 balls were hit with anything beyond a hair of inside. And he'll say stuff like "I don't want to use inside here but I had to if I wanted any hope of holding for the break shot, and you can see I almost miss the ball because of it".

John is an analytical player. At one point, he went as far as to say he used spin on a certain shot later in the run, that he wouldn't have earlier... because he knows early in the run the balls are still so clean and slick they won't grab the rail and allow the spin to take as much as he wants. He's a details guy, not one of those pros who just shoots without knowing how he does it. So if he says something like "avoid inside", I'd say pay attention.

As for pros using tons of spin all the time, yes... part of why they're pro is that they can use extreme spin when it's necessary. But what I think johnny is saying is... if you play carefully and correctly, you'll find yourself needing those extreme spins less often. It's nice to have it at your fingertips, but it's even nicer to seldom need it.

As an example... prior to the finals with Earl, Dechaine was shooting pretty sporty in the Ginky Memorial Tournament. He doesn't miss much. A shot came up where he left himself too much angle on a ball. The commentators predicted correctly that he would try to load up with inside and slow spin it in to get back in line. They were leery of that shot, and they were right to be, he missed it by a foot. It just threw a ton. If you watch mike practice you'll see he loves the extreme spin shots, but IMO he would have been better off staying closer to center in that situation. Or ensuring his leave didn't require extreme english.
 
Shortcut:
Use english just if it helps and furthermore just that much as needed :-)
 
CreeDo said:
I don't see anything wrong with a thread like this in the forums. It's a post where someone expresses an opinion about using english on pool shots. It's exactly the kind of thread that belongs in this forum.

As for John Schmidt... he is talking specifically about making long runs in straight pool. Maybe it applies to pool in general, (IMO it does) ...maybe it only applies to straight pool.

But in the video he uses it VERY sparingly, and goes out of his way to comment on the shots where he's using it. If you think that's bullshit, buy the DVD and count how many times he uses it. I bet less than 30-40 balls were hit with anything beyond a hair of inside. And he'll say stuff like "I don't want to use inside here but I had to if I wanted any hope of holding for the break shot, and you can see I almost miss the ball because of it".

John is an analytical player. At one point, he went as far as to say he used spin on a certain shot later in the run, that he wouldn't have earlier... because he knows early in the run the balls are still so clean and slick they won't grab the rail and allow the spin to take as much as he wants. He's a details guy, not one of those pros who just shoots without knowing how he does it. So if he says something like "avoid inside", I'd say pay attention.

As for pros using tons of spin all the time, yes... part of why they're pro is that they can use extreme spin when it's necessary. But what I think johnny is saying is... if you play carefully and correctly, you'll find yourself needing those extreme spins less often. It's nice to have it at your fingertips, but it's even nicer to seldom need it.

As an example... prior to the finals with Earl, Dechaine was shooting pretty sporty in the Ginky Memorial Tournament. He doesn't miss much. A shot came up where he left himself too much angle on a ball. The commentators predicted correctly that he would try to load up with inside and slow spin it in to get back in line. They were leery of that shot, and they were right to be, he missed it by a foot. It just threw a ton. If you watch mike practice you'll see he loves the extreme spin shots, but IMO he would have been better off staying closer to center in that situation. Or ensuring his leave didn't require extreme english.
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Good post. And nothing you've written is contradictory to what I wrote.

When John Schmidt says to avoid inside english, you (yes you and you in general) need to pay attention. Because you can't just take it at face value and then report in these news groups that John Schmidt tells us to blanketly avoid inside english. I know he's not. You know he's not.

Freddie <~~~ glad you agreed
 
TSW said:
I would be surprised if, on average, a shot hit below center is more accurate than a shot hit above center. You may have a slightly improved line of sight cueing below center; that's debatable. On the other hand, when you shoot below center your cue is not as level. If you use English even a little bit (intentionally or not), you are imparting more masse action to the cue ball than you would with a more level follow stroke.

If shot-making accuracy is paramount, I'm shooting above center.
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Take some small tiny paper wadsake a mine field to shoot through or perhaps some chalk chunks like archer is always removing your obstacle is ready pkace on ob on one side and cb on otherside shot requires a full hit. Shoot soft to medium across the mine field. Rolling cb is deflected by the trash. The drawn cb throws trash out of the way

Something to think about. Thanks to stan shuffet for that piece of knowledge

I highly recmnd lessons from stan
 
elvicash said:
Take some small tiny paper wadsake a mine field to shoot through or perhaps some chalk chunks like archer is always removing your obstacle is ready pkace on ob on one side and cb on otherside shot requires a full hit. Shoot soft to medium across the mine field. Rolling cb is deflected by the trash. The drawn cb throws trash out of the way

Something to think about. Thanks to stan shuffet for that piece of knowledge

I highly recmnd lessons from stan
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First of all I'm not sure if that is english.


All things being equal inside english is probably the hardest to master and it changes drastically on differing tables.

Generally speaking, when playing a game that has less balls on the tables more travel is required of the cueball whereas when you play either 8ball or 14.1 much less is needed.

Most of the time on tv we all know they play either 9 or 10 ball so you will see much more action on the cueball. It is fun to do and its even more fun to watch the crazy things you can get the cueball to do but the reality is that usually the simplest path is the best path. The less variables you incorporate into a given shot the better so when someone says don't use a ton of english on your shots they are really saying that because it widens the margin for error exponentially.

Let me clarify- there are some shots where you need to get around the table- particularly in 9ball- and for those shots you will probably need more than a tip of english. There are some shots where you need extreme top to curve around a ball off of a rail and there are some other situations where it is useful.

On a side note- when I practice it usually devolves into extreme stroke shots after a few hours because its just fun to do but you will never see me perform almost any of those shots in a tournament.
 
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