Center-to-Edge (CTE) Pivot Issue

Koop said:
Hi Dave,

I would ask Stevie Moore what he thinks. He is now using Stan's Pro One which he learned from Hal, which is CTE. I really wish the link was still up in YouTube that clearly showed Efren using it. It was posted to show an incredible bridge he made but no one seemed to notice the obvious pivot.

Regards,
Koop
I have the video, im not sure how to get it on youtube
and link it here so you guys can watch it though.If someone would help me on what to do ,i will get it on here.
 
Bob Jewett asked about bridge placement and where, hoping that it was just not somewhere with CTE systems.

I set up 3 separate shots and compared PRO ONE bridge placement to an exact bridgement achieved thru a standard quarters approach.

There is no weird bridge placement in CTE systems.

Bridge placement happens thru technique. In the quarters system there is a vertical guidedown. In PRO ONE the cue comes in from the side.
Stan
 
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bridge hand placement is key

stan shuffett said:
Bridgehand placement is where it would be to make the shot...
It's the technique that brings the bridgehand to the correct bridgehand placement.
Bridge hand placement is the key to this or any other aiming system. If you don't place the bridge in the exact location necessary to make a shot, you won't make the shot. The CTE "technique" for this, especially for the simple examples offered, is what has not been described sufficiently enough for outsiders to understand.

Regards,
Dave
 
stan shuffett said:
No, just like you wouldn't. My bridgeplacement for one shot may produce a 3 railer and the other a cut to the corner. This is easily demonstrated.

And that's not what I described above. All I said was that PRO ONE takes the bridge V to the correct aimline..... The shots I set up had 3 seperate CB OB locations.



Stan

My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

pj
chgo
 
Dr. Dave, Sure, exact bridge location is paramount. PRO ONE takes you there. I cannot effectively explain this in written text. But I can tell you that it's the damnest thing I have ever seen! LOL

Stan
 
stan shuffett said:
Dr. Dave, Sure, exact bridge location is paramount. PRO ONE takes you there. I cannot effectively explain this in written text. But I can tell you that it's the damnest thing I have ever seen! LOL

Stan

Here's a description of aiming by feel:

Exact bridge location is paramount. Feel takes you there. I cannot effectively explain this in written text. But I can tell you that it's the damnest thing I have ever seen!

No offense, Stan - just demonstrating why it might sound like that to readers.

pj
chgo
 
PJ:

I think that was Stan's polite way to say, if you wanna know... pay for a lesson and find out. Anyone who makes a living with this stuff isn't looking to educate the world for free. You have to respect that. That's why I wasn't looking to write a book on here just to appease some other posters. I'm respecting those who rely on paid lessons for a living.

Stan's done a good job chiming in with answers, but don't instigate him to give more than what he's looking to give. He's not advertising on here, he's not talking people into lessons with ads, he's just chiming-in in an appropriate manner. I think if anyone wants to learn, pay like everyone else did to get it. Just like if someone wants to learn racking well, don't beat up JoeT, buy his DVD.

Dave
 
stan shuffett said:
Dr. Dave, Sure, exact bridge location is paramount. PRO ONE takes you there. I cannot effectively explain this in written text. But I can tell you that it's the damnest thing I have ever seen! LOL

Stan

My point is PRO ONE very effectively takes the shooter to the correct bridge placement.

When I first learned this system, one of the things I said most often is, "This is one of the darnest things I have ever seen." In using the word "damnest" in my post to Dr. Dave, I was using a little bit of an inside joke in reference to his "DAM" aiming system...only meant to be light-hearted.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
PJ:

I think that was Stan's polite way to say, if you wanna know... pay for a lesson and find out. Anyone who makes a living with this stuff isn't looking to educate the world for free. You have to respect that. That's why I wasn't looking to write a book on here just to appease some other posters. I'm respecting those who rely on paid lessons for a living.

Stan's done a good job chiming in with answers, but don't instigate him to give more than what he's looking to give. He's not advertising on here, he's not talking people into lessons with ads, he's just chiming-in in an appropriate manner. I think if anyone wants to learn, pay like everyone else did to get it. Just like if someone wants to learn racking well, don't beat up JoeT, buy his DVD.

Dave

That's not the best comparison - Joe's racking secrets and aiming system are both easily described and you don't have to get personal lessons to learn them. I think he sells quite a few books and CDs even without the mystery. A side benefit of that is that I'd have no hesitation about taking a lesson from Joe (if I wanted to learn an aiming system) because I can see clearly that he can teach his system in ways anybody could understand and use. I'm not saying Stan can't, just that I can't tell.

pj
chgo
 
"Bridgement"--The placement of the bridge hand. I like that.

Stan, you mention that you were amazed by how well the system worked when you "learned" it. I was under the assumption that you came up with Pro One. Is the system you learned that worked so well, Hal Houle's? Is Pro One that much different from the method you learned?

Just a personal opinion, when an aiming system is only being taught in person, as a gesture of good faith, I'd like to be offered a money back guarantee. The lure of learning something secretive can have people spending a ton of money to travel only to be disappointed with the results. That's why I like books, or even paid downloads. The risk isn't as high.

Aiming methods are one of those things that I think should be public knowledge. If you came up with one just take pride in the fact that you came up with it. If you can teach it well, make money by teaching it in person, and make more money by writing a book about it. Since you came up with it, you have the advantage of being the first to know about it, which gives you the opportunity to be the first to write about it. If you don't write about it, someone else may and spoil your chances of making money from it. Wouldn't you want your method, if it's great, to be known by all? I don't understand holding onto it for the few who don't mind making the trek to your area.
 
bluepepper said:
"Bridgement"--The placement of the bridge hand. I like that.

Stan, you mention that you were amazed by how well the system worked when you "learned" it. I was under the assumption that you came up with Pro One. Is the system you learned that worked so well, Hal Houle's? Is Pro One that much different from the method you learned?

Just a personal opinion, when an aiming system is only being taught in person, as a gesture of good faith, I'd like to be offered a money back guarantee. The lure of learning something secretive can have people spending a ton of money to travel only to be disappointed with the results. That's why I like books, or even paid downloads. The risk isn't as high.

Aiming methods are one of those things that I think should be public knowledge. If you came up with one just take pride in the fact that you came up with it. If you can teach it well, make money by teaching it in person, and make more money by writing a book about it. Since you came up with it, you have the advantage of being the first to know about it, which gives you the opportunity to be the first to write about it. If you don't write about it, someone else may and spoil your chances of making money from it. Wouldn't you want your method, if it's great, to be known by all? I don't understand holding onto it for the few who don't mind making the trek to your area.

Jeff,
You have done a pretty good job of convincing people that CTE requires adjustments. It goes without saying that every aiming system in the world requires adjustments. As long as there is humidity, chalk, dirt, equipment and humans involved in playing pool, all aiming systems will continue to require "adjustments".

But your giving Stan advice on how to take advantage of his Pro One aiming system is most presumptuous. You don't know what Stan's goals are nor what his marketing strategy is and it is not your business or mine.

If Stan made a request for information on AZ as to how he could improve his marketing strategy, I could fully understand your desire to provide him with your advice. I don't read every post on here but when Stan posts, I try to pay attention to what he writes.

JoeyA
 
Patrick Johnson said:
That's not the best comparison - Joe's racking secrets and aiming system are both easily described and you don't have to get personal lessons to learn them. I think he sells quite a few books and CDs even without the mystery. A side benefit of that is that I'd have no hesitation about taking a lesson from Joe (if I wanted to learn an aiming system) because I can see clearly that he can teach his system in ways anybody could understand and use. I'm not saying Stan can't, just that I can't tell.

pj
chgo

Stop worrying about it. Just take a lesson and clear it up once and for all. You'll thank me for it.
 
JoeyA said:
Jeff,
You have done a pretty good job of convincing people that CTE requires adjustments. It goes without saying that every aiming system in the world requires adjustments. As long as there is humidity, chalk, dirt, equipment and humans involved in playing pool, all aiming systems will continue to require "adjustments".

But your giving Stan advice on how to take advantage of his Pro One aiming system is most presumptuous. You don't know what Stan's goals are nor what his marketing strategy is and it is not your business or mine.

If Stan made a request for information on AZ as to how he could improve his marketing strategy, I could fully understand your desire to provide him with your advice. I don't read every post on here but when Stan posts, I try to pay attention to what he writes.

JoeyA

I meant no disrespect, and I don't think I'm being presumptuous by suggesting that he release the system in written form, or probably better, on DVD. Money can be made there. If the system works really well, and it seems to by most accounts here, why not share it with the world? Who should be kept from it? I don't know how long he's been teaching Pro One, but how much longer should it be taught to the few before teaching it to the masses? And the opportunity might disappear if it becomes known by word of mouth or someone publishes the system before he gets around to doing so himself.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Stop worrying about it. Just take a lesson and clear it up once and for all. You'll thank me for it.

As I've said, I don't use aiming systems and don't want to use them. I know they help others, so I have an academic interest in how they work and a social interest in helping others understand them. That's worth spending some of my time on here talking about them, but it's not worth time or money for lessons I don't have a use for.

I worry about my daughter's boyfriends. This is playtime.

pj
chgo
 
backwards again!

Patrick Johnson said:
I worry about my daughter's boyfriends. This is playtime.

pj
chgo

Dang PJ, there you go backwards again! My daughter's boyfriends worry about me, that way I don't have to worry about them. :D :D :D

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Dang PJ, there you go backwards again! My daughter's boyfriends worry about me, that way I don't have to worry about them. :D :D :D

Hu

LOL. I remember that fear, but my good judgment never quite stood up to the teenage testosterone tsunami. Maybe kids these days are wiser...

pj
chgo
 
12squared said:
One thing I don't get is how one would aim using any of these index-based systems (CTE, ETC, etc) if they need a specific enlish on the cueball. And I would really like to understand it. It's obvious that many people use these systems successfully and play great position, so I know it can work.

All I read about is pivot from whatever index is being used. If that's the case, does the index change if you need outside, outside high, outside low, and the same for inside? Also how do you account for various degrees off center?

Please do not take this as me being a hater of these systems, because I am not - I know they have some merit (once the adjustments are learned). It's just that it was never explained to me how to aim using these systems when the cueball is the most important part of the shot, even if it's a hard shot.

Thank you in advance for your (or anybody's) answer.

Dave
I've said it before and I'll say it again; the BEST descussion about aiming I've ever read is in Jim Rydell's book "The Owner's Manual for the Complete Pool Player" His website is pjbilliards.com
8JIM9
 
eze said:
I have the video, im not sure how to get it on youtube
and link it here so you guys can watch it though.If someone would help me on what to do ,i will get it on here.

Damn, someone help this guy out. If you get no bites, PM me and I will give you my email address to send it to.

I have to ask, did you see what I saw in terms of the way Efren aimed? Just want to make sure I was not hallucinating.

Regards,
Koop
 
8JIM9 said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again; the BEST descussion about aiming I've ever read is in Jim Rydell's book "The Owner's Manual for the Complete Pool Player" His website is pjbilliards.com
8JIM9

I don't remember reading a post about this book. I went to the site and it says that the author discusses 4 aiming systems. Which 4 does he talk about?
 
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